Carnal Hypocrisy of Sabbath Commanders

[robert derrick]

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.





You were quite clear. You were also entirely incorrect.





Thanks, but we already knew that. It was you who didn't.

Perhaps you're just thinking out loud.





Rank damage control. Nothing is blessed "by Commandment." God just blesses stuff.

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Goody. You win a point.

Your commandment of sabbath is still your own, and your sabbath is corrupt with exemptions and corban offerings.

There is one main difference between me and you. I can be corrected.

And another difference is when someone else acknowledges being corrected by me, I honor their integrity, rather than gloat over it.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

The idolizing of a corrupt sabbath kills any Spirit of Christ and charity.

 

[robert derrick]

I don't know anyone who has made a sabbath of their own. The "exceptions" are authored by Christ, Himself. They are actually not exceptions at all since Christ does not make exceptions to His law. He advocates for the preservation and relief of His creatures 7 days per week. His father works 7 days per week, as does He, Himself. But not for personal gain. The donating of salary/wages received by first-responders has nothing to do with Christ's teaching on the 5th commandment in Mark 7. "Corban" is not a dirty word. It is simply the name given to gifts devoted to temple service.

But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

It is the name given by Jesus for profits to the offering plate, when freeing hypocrites to work on a sabbath they command others to keep.

You confirm your sabbath is corrupt with working exemptions, and then defend the results of filthy lucre into your offering plates.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are a minister that receives the cash.

I don't know how to reject something that I don't even acknowledge.

I.e. you won't acknowledge the corruption of your sabbath.

At the risk of being redundant, The sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. There are no exceptions to the proper keeping of the eternal Sabbath. Even before there was an earth or, perhaps, a seven-day cycle, there was a need for God's creatures to come apart and rest (cease--not recuperate from weariness) and commune with the LORD especially, for a time.

True. There are no exceptions for working on the Lord's Sabbath commanded in Scripture. Yours is a pathetic modern corruption thereof.

 

[robert derrick]

Along with worshiping in truth, I know of no other way to properly worship but in Spirit, so any conception of my having mocked such a thing is a mistake either by perception of the reader or by my expression.

You openly mocked worshipping Jesus in the spirit daily as being nonsense.

Your efforts to now speak of inward worship of Jesus daily falls short.

This appears to be just some kind of redundant, antagonistic needling. I mark it but I know not how to respond meaningfully. I do not acknowledge this thing which you incessantly insist exists. If there is some other purpose for this vexation, let me know, please..

Do you say that if any Christian is working on a sabbath day, then they are profaning the sabbath day, and no amount of offerings afterward justifies their working on a sabbath day?

 

[robert derrick]

The problem with anti-Sabbatarians in the professing Christian world is that they have been conditioned by society to believe that Saturday is their day to do whatever they want with it, irrespective of the fact that God already consecrated this day as something that belonged to Him 6 millennia ago.

Anti-Sabbatarians will never admit it, but they ultimately make all of their slick, righteous-sounding arguments against the Sabbath because they don't want God telling them how to spend what they perceive as time that they own. They look at the Sabbath as time that will be stolen from them as opposed to giving God the time that is rightfully His.

Only someone begrudgingly obeying a religion outwardly, would ever speak of those not doing so, as just wanting to have time of their own.

Those of the Spirit of Christ walking hand in hand with Jesus daily, know all time is with Him.

And as Maxwell Smart would say, "And loving it!"

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The only time with the Lord, that is not my own time with the Lord, is when I am working on the job to provide for my only family, by the Lord.

Carnal sabbath keepers as by law, make carnal accusations against them that walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh, who are anti corrupt-exemption-ridden sabbaths of men only.

 

[Phoneman777]

I really don't know Pman, one thing is certain God never changes. We only know the world after the sin of Adam, perhaps those laws given to us would never have been given had Adam remained faithful, but logic would reason that He would have in time given more instruction than simply naming the animals which would have been completed and filling the earth with humans.

From the time God made the first covenant however there have always been regulations for His people, and the Bible indicates new Scrolls will be opened, so anything we think on what the new system will be would simply be speculation. God is big on education, right now in these last days He is providing an abundance of spiritual food so we can walk in His paths Isa 2:2,3:Mat 24:45-47

Ecc 3:11 could be taken as an indicator that we will continue learning eternally, but never come to know all God does. I am glad you agree with Paul, that we are not to judge those who both keep or do not keep the Sabbath Law. Col 2:16,17, I certainly do.

Let's examine the evidence to see where it points:

>Satan has a history of making laws which threaten God's people, and just before Jesus comes, apocalyptic Psalm 94 says Satan will "frame mischief by a law".

>God desires His law be in our forehead and hand - the Beast's mark goes into either the one or other.

>The unmarked who "keep the commandments of God" are contrasted with the marked who don't.

>"Great peace have they which love Thy law" but the marked have no rest day or night.

I don't mind if you or others refuse to accept the Mark of the Beast has something to do with to the law of God, but saying there's no Scripture when I've shown several above is simply a desperate denial because of what Luke 7:17 KJV says about willingness to follow God.

 

[BarneyFife]

Goody. You win a point.

Not interested in points. Hope you're not, either.

Your commandment of sabbath is still your own, and your sabbath is corrupt with exemptions and corban offerings.

Using the word "still" in your schtick just identifies it all the more clearly as a "Lather..."

There is one main difference between me and you. I can be corrected.

It's really strange that you think you know me.

And another difference is when someone else acknowledges being corrected by me, I honor their integrity, rather than gloat over it.

Kinda like you're doing right now? I'd hardly call what I was doing gloating. You didn't acknowledge being corrected. You said you merely committed "unclarity." I was just checking your incredible arrogance. You're not going to make me feel sorry for you. If you can get hurt here, you'd better go pray for some thicker skin.

The idolizing of a corrupt sabbath kills any Spirit of Christ and charity.

Now I'm a "sabbatholater." Gee, I never heard that one before.

I'll give you some more material to work with.

Well, let's see, there's the "cult" bomb—a lot of folks really enjoy that one.

Ever hear of "Sabbath-triers?" Got that one over on ChristianForums. There's a guy over there that was an Adventist for 40 years, found out he was wrong (although, after listening to him talk enough, I found out he was just mad because the church wouldn't bail him out of bankruptcy—one of his favorite doctrines to attack is the tithe system), and he just loves to beat up on Adventists. He's got the ammo, too, boy. LOADS!! But he can't seem to grasp the idea that admitting he was "wrong" for 40 years doesn't exactly recommend his judgment very well.

Tell me about the Spirit of Christ and charity. I'd love to hear about that! How many threads have you started on that subject lately?

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

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[BarneyFife]

But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

It is the name given by Jesus for profits to the offering plate, when freeing hypocrites to work on a sabbath they command others to keep.

I think your hermeneutic is a bit flawed there.

The word "corban" is a Hebrew word that pre-dates the incarnate Christ, meaning "that which is brought near," "a gift or offering to God."

Strong's Hebrew: 7133. קָרְבָן (qorban) -- oblation

You confirm your sabbath is corrupt with working exemptions, and then defend the results of filthy lucre into your offering plates.

You got that from this?

"The donating of salary/wages received by first-responders has nothing to do with Christ's teaching on the 5th commandment in Mark 7."

I wouldn't be surprised if you are a minister that receives the cash.

And I wouldn't be surprised if you got the forum "award of the year for evil surmising."

I'm not a minister and our ministers don't get paid from the offering plate, which goes directly to the church treasurer (who sends funds earmarked for tithe to the Local Conference, which then sends a portion to the Union Conference, then Division and General). They're paid a scaled salary by the Local (usually State or Regional, in America) Conference. The ones that get paid at all, that is. A very large percentage of Adventist pastors are lay pastors who get a fraction of what paid ministers get, as compensation for expenses. They have to earn their own living.

I.e. you won't acknowledge the corruption of your sabbath.

"Lather..." I don't have a sabbath. I know only of the eternal Sabbath of the LORD Jesus Christ.

You openly mocked worshipping Jesus in the spirit daily as being nonsense.

What I said, in hyperbole, was:

And others claim to keep the Sabbath 24/7 in a spiritualistic sense (or nonsense, depending on your point of view).

And you're very imaginative.

Your efforts to now speak of inward worship of Jesus daily falls short.

No effort was exerted to pander to your narrative. I merely placed the subject of worshiping in the Spirit with that of worshiping in Truth in the context of John 4:23-24, where it belongs—not in Hebrews 4, which some evangelical Christians have begun to erroneously claim is a call for a spiritual(istic) 4th commandment fulfillment.

Do you say that if any Christian is working on a sabbath day, then they are profaning the sabbath day, and no amount of offerings afterward justifies their working on a sabbath day?

WHAT??!!!

I have no recollection of expressing anything like this amalgamation of Pharisaic trap-laying/questioning you have concocted here.

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[robert derrick]

WHAT??!!!

I have no recollection of expressing anything like this amalgamation of Pharisaic trap-laying/questioning you have concocted here.

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There are those who teach it is acceptable to work on a sabbath day, if it is required as part of their career, such as in the military, police, or emergency response.

When they do so, their pay for that day goes to the offering plate.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

[BarneyFife]

There are those who teach it is acceptable to work on a sabbath day, if it is required as part of their career, such as in the military, police, or emergency response.

When they do so, their pay for that day goes to the offering plate.

Do you agree or disagree?

You are obviously under the assumption that I make my manner of keeping the Sabbath criteria for others. I know that there are conscientious persons who do certain work that is necessary to preserve and sustain the health and life of God's creatures on the Sabbath. Some of them turn over any wages earned thereupon to religious or humanitarian interests. Some do not. Every person must worship God according to the dictates of their conscience. I make no imposition on others regarding particulars. And I am aware of no Orwellian "Sabbath Police Force."

Fortunately, I have never been in a position of having to decide whether someone should be removed from fellowship due to open sin of this kind. My understanding is that this process is just about like what one would imagine. It is done in accordance with the principles/policies given by Christ in Matthew 18.

You are over-simplifying a matter that involves precious souls for whom Christ died.

I will not presume to be a walking Church Manual to satisfy the curiosity of everyone who wishes to speculate as to what should be done in hypothetical situations. The commandment says "do no work." Christ says "Hitherto My Father works, and I work," and "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep..." Circumstances alter cases. It is a weak, Pharisaical heart that has to have a mile-long rabbinical checklist to obey God. And I am not intimidated by the "agree or disagree" questions that are urged in such a spirit.

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[Brakelite]

You are obviously under the assumption that I make my manner of keeping the Sabbath criteria for others. I know that there are conscientious persons who do certain work that is necessary to preserve and sustain the health and life of God's creatures on the Sabbath. Some of them turn over any wages earned thereupon to religious or humanitarian interests. Some do not. Every person must worship God according to the dictates of their conscience. I make no imposition on others regarding particulars. And I am aware of no Orwellian "Sabbath Police Force."

Fortunately, I have never been in a position of having to decide whether someone should be removed from fellowship due to open sin of this kind. My understanding is that this process is just about like what one would imagine. It is done in accordance with the principles/policies given by Christ in Matthew 18.

You are over-simplifying a matter that involves precious souls for whom Christ died.

I will not presume to be a walking Church Manual to satisfy the curiosity of everyone who wishes to speculate as to what should be done in hypothetical situations. The commandment says "do no work." Christ says "Hitherto My Father works, and I work," and "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep..." Circumstances alter cases. It is a weak, Pharisaical heart that has to have a mile-long rabbinical checklist to obey God. And I am not intimidated by the "agree or disagree" questions that are urged in such a spirit.

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I can imagine Robert denying pastors one seventh of their pay because they teach on Sabbath.

 

[marksman]

You confirm those commanding a sabbath to all Christians never speak of worship in the spirit, nor of the inner man.

In your imagination

 

[marksman]

This is the corruption and hypocrisy Jesus rebuked the religious for of His day, and still does today:

That is your take on things but it leaves me cold because it seems devoid of any expression of love.

 

[Robert Gwin]

AMEN Bob!


So what does the imposition of civil penalties pertaining to a defunct earthly Theocracy have to do with the relevancy/perpetuity of the 4th commandment?

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Nothing Barn, however we do have Christian laws to be obedient to. Obedience is the key to salvation.

 

[Robert Gwin]

What, exactly, would you say constitutes 'judging those who do or do not keep the Sabbath law,' Bob? This sentiment seems to stem from a reading of Colossians 2. What would you say the phrase "Let no man therefore judge you" means, exactly?

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Lets see Barn, I am guessing it means let no man judge you, what thinkest thou? No in all seriousness we believe it means the Sabbath, the one of the 10 commandments given by Jehovah, is no longer a big issue, if you want to observe it fine, if not fine as well. We no longer stone others for not obeying it sir. Everyone you know has violated it, so I hope we are correct in our understanding of it, or who could be saved sir?

 

[robert derrick]

You are obviously under the assumption that I make my manner of keeping the Sabbath criteria for others. I know that there are conscientious persons who do certain work that is necessary to preserve and sustain the health and life of God's creatures on the Sabbath. Some of them turn over any wages earned thereupon to religious or humanitarian interests. Some do not. Every person must worship God according to the dictates of their conscience. I make no imposition on others regarding particulars. And I am aware of no Orwellian "Sabbath Police Force."

Fortunately, I have never been in a position of having to decide whether someone should be removed from fellowship due to open sin of this kind. My understanding is that this process is just about like what one would imagine. It is done in accordance with the principles/policies given by Christ in Matthew 18.

You are over-simplifying a matter that involves precious souls for whom Christ died.

I will not presume to be a walking Church Manual to satisfy the curiosity of everyone who wishes to speculate as to what should be done in hypothetical situations. The commandment says "do no work." Christ says "Hitherto My Father works, and I work," and "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep..." Circumstances alter cases. It is a weak, Pharisaical heart that has to have a mile-long rabbinical checklist to obey God. And I am not intimidated by the "agree or disagree" questions that are urged in such a spirit.

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Sophistry.

In the Lord's Sabbath the offender is cut of from God's people.

If the Lord's Sabbath were commanded to Christians by the apostles, then profaning the Sabbath would have been rebuked along with fornication, covetousness, blasphemy, etc... and Christians would be commanded to keep no company with them:

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

The modern sabbath is a joke, and it's own commanders won't even take a righteous stand for it.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[robert derrick]

That is your take on things but it leaves me cold because it seems devoid of any expression of love.

Those who love not the truth, do not hate a lie.

I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

The modern sabbath is a corrupt offense against the Lord's Sabbath of old, and those commanding it condemn Christians for not joining in on their vanity.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[robert derrick]

I can imagine Robert denying pastors one seventh of their pay because they teach on Sabbath.

Since I don't command a sabbath for anyone, I would neither care nor be there.

I really don't care what you people do, until you come out condemning the innocent for not keeping your fraudulent sabbaths.

And since you get your feelings hurt over being exposed for your vanity, then keep it to yourselves.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.

 

[marksman]

Since I don't command a sabbath for anyone, I would neither care nor be there.

I really don't care what you people do, until you come out condemning the innocent for not keeping your fraudulent sabbaths.

And since you get your feelings hurt over being exposed for your vanity, then keep it to yourselves.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.

That sounds like a typical Pharisaical comment. Which are you a Pharisee or a Sadducee?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Let's examine the evidence to see where it points:

>Satan has a history of making laws which threaten God's people, and just before Jesus comes, apocalyptic Psalm 94 says Satan will "frame mischief by a law".

>God desires His law be in our forehead and hand - the Beast's mark goes into either the one or other.

>The unmarked who "keep the commandments of God" are contrasted with the marked who don't.

>"Great peace have they which love Thy law" but the marked have no rest day or night.

I don't mind if you or others refuse to accept the Mark of the Beast has something to do with to the law of God, but saying there's no Scripture when I've shown several above is simply a desperate denial because of what Luke 7:17 KJV says about willingness to follow God.

Totally different subject P, but don't mind talking about it, do you know what the beast is?

 

[robert derrick]

That sounds like a typical Pharisaical comment. Which are you a Pharisee or a Sadducee?

Stop condemning the innocent, and then I'll love you for it.

Until then, your commanded pseudo-sabbath is an offense against the law of the Lord and the body of Christ.

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.