Carnal Hypocrisy of Sabbath Commanders

[BarneyFife]

You confirm those commanding a sabbath to all Christians never speak of worship in the spirit, nor of the inner man.

The modern sabbath people boast of today is not the Lord's sabbath at all, but an exception-based hypocrisy, that is mollified by declaring 'necessary' working on their sabbath days to be Corban.

There is no problem with Christians, jews, nor Muslims thinking to keep a sabbath in modern times, but like circumcision, when it is commanded as by law, they are corrupting the law of Christ with their personal tradition, as well as corrupting the Lord's Sabbath itself, but allowing for work on their sabbath days

This is the corruption and hypocrisy Jesus rebuked the religious for of His day, and still does today:

There are no "Sabbath Commanders," no "modern Sabbath people," and the hypocrisy Jesus rebuked in His day was regarding extra-biblical, rabbinical requirements that were unsuccessfully designed to ensure a successful legalistic redemption. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man (not Jew), and not man for the Sabbath. What He was teaching was so simple. It's right there in the Bible. As the old spaghetti sauce TV commercial said: "It's in there" (Matthew 15:1-20, Isaiah 29:13). The simplicity of it eludes the wise.

Heart, Heart, Heart.

 

[robert derrick]

​

New International Version
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

New Living Translation
And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation.

English Standard Version
So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

King James Bible
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

New King James Version
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

New American Standard Bible
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Amplified Bible
So God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it [as His own, that is, set it apart as holy from other days], because in it He rested from all His work which He had created and done.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, for on it He rested from His work of creation.

Contemporary English Version
God blessed the seventh day and made it special, because on that day he rested from his work.

Good News Translation
He blessed the seventh day and set it apart as a special day, because by that day he had completed his creation and stopped working.

International Standard Version
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God stopped working on everything that he had been creating.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it He rested from all His work which God in creating had made.

Literal Standard Version
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctifies it, for in it He has ceased from all His work which God had created for making.

New Revised Standard Version
So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.

Young's Literal Translation
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.

m
m
Can't you see what's happening?
m
m​

Correct. I was not clear.

God blessed His 7th day of rest and sanctified it in the beginning, but did not bless a sabbath day by commandment, until the wilderness after Egypt.

 

[robert derrick]

There are no "Sabbath Commanders," no "modern Sabbath people," and the hypocrisy Jesus rebuked in His day was regarding extra-biblical, rabbinical requirements that were unsuccessfully designed to ensure a successful legalistic redemption. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man (not Jew), and not man for the Sabbath. What He was teaching was so simple. It's right there in the Bible. As the old spaghetti sauce TV commercial said: "It's in there" (Matthew 15:1-20, Isaiah 29:13). The simplicity of it eludes the wise.

Heart, Heart, Heart.

You preach a sabbath as by law of commandment today. You are a sabbath commander.

The modern sabbath people are those who make a sabbath of their own with exceptions for working on the sabbath, and make any such wages to become Corban to their offering plates.

If you reject that modern perversion of the Lord's sabbath, then say so.

However, you did teach the basis for modern hypocritical exceptions, by wrongly saying Jesus was providing exceptions to working on the sabbath in His day.

You now rightly agree with me, that He was being accused of profaning the Sabbath, by spurning the added traditions and rules of rabbis to the law of the Sabbath.

 

[robert derrick]

Who is the "we" in "we see?"

I and anyone else who reads your mocking of daily spiritual worship of God in Christ Jesus.

I'm sorry but the "hypocritical, modern Sabbath" theory is just an odd variation on the old "cultural conditioning" theological fallacy.

If you reject the modern sabbath with exceptions for working on the sabbath, then say so.

If we throw the 4th commandment in the hopper because they didn't have the stuff we have back then:

What is thrown out by modern sabbath commanders is the Lord's sabbath as written to do no work therein. No exceptions.

What do we do with the rest of the Bible? (That's a rhetorical question, btw.)

You do the same with all Scriptures to command a sabbath today: invent it earlier than the wilderness, and try to produce one out of Heb 4:9.

As well as produce several false teachings in order to support your commandment. (Which I have been recording, and will share in another thread the many ways in which modern sabbath commanding is false, as well as the modern sabbath itself being corrupt.)

We then tend our steps toward deciding what is inspired and what is not in the Bible, basically, to adopt your theory. It ultimately leads to chaos, which is the problem with virtually all Sabbath objections. We can convince ourselves it's not there, which causes a cognitive dissonance that leads to all manner of other delusions.

Your sabbath commandment is just another way of dividing the body of Christ, through men's commandments taught for doctrine of Christ.

You separate yourself from the rest of the body by your personal commandment, that no apostle ever wrote to do, nor rebuked for profaning.

All of this confusion would be unnecessary if folks would not refuse to deal with the divine paradoxical nature of God's character as taught in the Bible. He makes it so plain as to make it inexcusable for any Bible student to acknowledge it (Job 11, Romans 11:33-36, Psalms 50:21, Isaiah 55:8-11). The Bible is not an easy book for sinners to understand. It is designed that way. It separates the sheep from the goats; blows away the chaff. Wisdom is hidden from those who do not hunger and thirst after righteousness.

A world, or even a universe that is not arranged to set aside special, regular time to behold the beauty and majesty of the Creator and His infinite love in offering up and verily giving His Son to the whole human race forever, just won't work.

Nice speech. Stop commanding all Christians to keep your sabbath, and all is well.

It is the scourge of Christendom that so many are contented with twisting and championing certain difficult passages of Scripture to the complete dismissal and/or denial of others that are much more plain.

You do it consistently.

It is not difficult to see no Sabbaths commanded by God in Scripture, until the wilderness before Sinai.

Neither is it difficult to see no such commandment written by the apostles from the Lord, after His resurrection from the dead.

There are no difficult passages of Scripture, for those who are not trying to teach personal false doctrine out of it, and God has purposely written all Scripture in such a way as to expose all lies of men, that love their petty little rules and teachings to be believed as doctrine of God.

A little child can see what is not written, by not reading it as written.

 

[Phoneman777]

You can keep twisting Scripture more and more, by taking everything out of context: The Lord commanded Moses to take Israel into the wilderness for a sacrifice and feast.

So, you can't dispute the fact that Moses angered Pharoah by making the Israelites "shabbat" which is LONG before Exodus 16. Got it.

And the Lord's Sabbath was not first commanded at Sinai, but earlier in the wilhat derness. It was made law at Sinai, where the Lord first blessed that commandment and made it hallowed.

If it was commanded prior to Sinai, then it was a law prior to Sinai. Also, the Sabbath was not blessed at Sinai, but in Eden, because when God blesses a thing, "it shall be blessed forever". No booster shots. Therefore, Exodus 20 refers to the blessing in Genesis 2, understand?

I would say you ware a wanna-be sabbath-keeper of the OT, but your excuse-ridden sabbath is not the Lord's, which is the confirmed hypocrisy condemned in this thread.

Insulting the obedient will not deliver you in the day of judgment from the penalty of disobedience.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

There are no "Sabbath Commanders," no "modern Sabbath people," and the hypocrisy Jesus rebuked in His day was regarding extra-biblical, rabbinical requirements that were unsuccessfully designed to ensure a successful legalistic redemption. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man (not Jew), and not man for the Sabbath. What He was teaching was so simple. It's right there in the Bible. As the old spaghetti sauce TV commercial said: "It's in there" (Matthew 15:1-20, Isaiah 29:13). The simplicity of it eludes the wise.

True but not all the truth. Never has a SDA given this valid answer, while giving the most obvious detail Jesus brought to the fore but which the Pharisees wished He would not, just like to this day, Sabbath Pharisees, like the SDA, do. Jesus referred to the shewbread which offering was replaced on every and only on the Sabbath. Now every Christian eye has ever seen in the shewbread the symbolism of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, but the rest, never!
What is the rest? Nothing else of course than that the shewbread was typical and prophetic metaphor of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ON THE DABBATH!

 

[Phoneman777]

Violating God's laws are a sin sir, His kindness through Jesus' ransom sacrifice can release the individual from sin, as long as they are truly repentant, but those who "keep violating" in other words practice sin, you are very well correct.

We do not believe the Sabbath law was carried over to Christians sir. If it was like I said, you, I and everyone we know is past tense, history, yesterday's news;). Unlike you most people do not even know when the Sabbath is, likely you are aware of that being that you do know.

I know most don't consider the Sabbath relevant, and it's certainly understandable, seeing that's the one commandment most churches don't preach. However, I believe the Sabbath is going to take center state regarding the fulfillment of end times prophecy, so I would be remiss if I didn't share my views, kinda like a watchman who decides not to sound the alarm. ;)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You preach a sabbath as by law of commandment today. You are a sabbath commander.

The modern sabbath people are those who make a sabbath of their own with exceptions for working on the sabbath, and make any such wages to become Corban to their offering plates.

If you reject that modern perversion of the Lord's sabbath, then say so.

However, you did teach the basis for modern hypocritical exceptions, by wrongly saying Jesus was providing exceptions to working on the sabbath in His day.

You now rightly agree with me, that He was being accused of profaning the Sabbath, by spurning the added traditions and rules of rabbis to the law of the Sabbath.

The full size of <Sabbath law> which you are making a Himalayas of, is the width and length of one square domestic yard by the height of one servile Verb engraved in stone, long since eroded gone - "thou shalt not work". But the depth and density thereof you have never brought into reckoning, the Divine DEED and POWER of GOD THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH RESTED AND REVIVED.

Go do one day's work in your life honestly and weigh and measure the magnitude and gravity of "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD"!

 

[BarneyFife]

The great Jehovah had laid the foundations of the earth; He had dressed the whole world in the garb of beauty and had filled it with things useful to man; He had created all the wonders of the land and of the sea. In six days the great work of creation had been accomplished. And God “rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.” God looked with satisfaction upon the work of His hands. All was perfect, worthy of its divine Author, and He rested, not as one weary, but as well pleased with the fruits of His wisdom and goodness and the manifestations of His glory.

After resting upon the seventh day, God sanctified it, or set it apart, as a day of rest for man. Following the example of the Creator, man was to rest upon this sacred day, that as he should look upon the heavens and the earth, he might reflect upon God's great work of creation; and that as he should behold the evidences of God's wisdom and goodness, his heart might be filled with love and reverence for his Maker.

In Eden, God set up the memorial of His work of creation, in placing His blessing upon the seventh day. The Sabbath was committed to Adam, the father and representative of the whole human family. Its observance was to be an act of grateful acknowledgment, on the part of all who should dwell upon the earth, that God was their Creator and their rightful Sovereign; that they were the work of His hands and the subjects of His authority. Thus the institution was wholly commemorative, and given to all mankind. There was nothing in it shadowy or of restricted application to any people.

God saw that a Sabbath was essential for man, even in Paradise. He needed to lay aside his own interests and pursuits for one day of the seven, that he might more fully contemplate the works of God and meditate upon His power and goodness. He needed a Sabbath to remind him more vividly of God and to awaken gratitude because all that he enjoyed and possessed came from the beneficent hand of the Creator.

God designs that the Sabbath shall direct the minds of men to the contemplation of His created works. Nature speaks to their senses, declaring that there is a living God, the Creator, the Supreme Ruler of all. “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge.” Psalm 19:1, 2. The beauty that clothes the earth is a token of God's love. We may behold it in the everlasting hills, in the lofty trees, in the opening buds and the delicate flowers. All speak to us of God. The Sabbath, ever pointing to Him who made them all, bids men open the great book of nature and trace therein the wisdom, the power, and the love of the Creator.

 

[BarneyFife]

The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when “the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.” Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. “God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;” and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Genesis 1:31.

Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, “God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,”—set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, “He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered.” “The things that are made,” declare “the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world,” “even His everlasting power and divinity.” Genesis 2:3; Psalm 111:4; Romans 1:20.

All things were created by the Son of God. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.... All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made.” John 1:1-3. And since the Sabbath is a memorial of the work of creation, it is a token of the love and power of Christ.

The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He “who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 4:6.

It was this thought that awoke the song,—

“Thou, Lord, hast made me glad through Thy work;
I will triumph in the works of Thy hands.
O Lord, how great are Thy works!
And Thy thoughts are very deep.” Psalm 92:4-5.

And the Holy Spirit through the prophet Isaiah declares: “To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto Him? ... Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.... To whom then will ye liken Me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: He calleth them all by names by the greatness of His might, for that He is strong in power; not one faileth. Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the Lord, and my judgment is passed over from my God? Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? ... He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might He increaseth strength.” “Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of My righteousness.” “Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.” This is the message written in nature, which the Sabbath is appointed to keep in memory. When the Lord bade Israel hallow His Sabbaths, He said, “They shall be a sign between Me and you, that ye may know that I am Jehovah your God.” Isaiah 40:18-29; 41:10; 45:22; Ezekiel 20:20.

The Sabbath was embodied in the law given from Sinai; but it was not then first made known as a day of rest. The people of Israel had a knowledge of it before they came to Sinai. On the way thither the Sabbath was kept. When some profaned it, the Lord reproved them, saying, “How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?” Exodus 16:28.


The Sabbath was not for Israel merely, but for the world. It had been made known to man in Eden, and, like the other precepts of the Decalogue, it is of imperishable obligation. Of that law of which the fourth commandment forms a part, Christ declares, “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law.” So long as the heavens and the earth endure, the Sabbath will continue as a sign of the Creator's power. And when Eden shall bloom on earth again, God's holy rest day will be honored by all beneath the sun. “From one Sabbath to another” the inhabitants of the glorified new earth shall go up “to worship before Me, saith the Lord.” Matthew 5:18; Isaiah 66:23.

No other institution which was committed to the Jews tended so fully to distinguish them from surrounding nations as did the Sabbath. God designed that its observance should designate them as His worshipers. It was to be a token of their separation from idolatry, and their connection with the true God. But in order to keep the Sabbath holy, men must themselves be holy. Through faith they must become partakers of the righteousness of Christ. When the command was given to Israel, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy,” the Lord said also to them, “Ye shall be holy men unto Me.” Exodus 20:8; 22:31. Only thus could the Sabbath distinguish Israel as the worshipers of God.

As the Jews departed from God, and failed to make the righteousness of Christ their own by faith, the Sabbath lost its significance to them. Satan was seeking to exalt himself and to draw men away from Christ, and he worked to pervert the Sabbath, because it is the sign of the power of Christ. The Jewish leaders accomplished the will of Satan by surrounding God's rest day with burdensome requirements. In the days of Christ the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfish and arbitrary men rather than the character of the loving heavenly Father. The rabbis virtually represented God as giving laws which it was impossible for men to obey. They led the people to look upon God as a tyrant, and to think that the observance of the Sabbath, as He required it, made men hard-hearted and cruel. It was the work of Christ to clear away these misconceptions. Although the rabbis followed Him with merciless hostility, He did not even appear to conform to their requirements, but went straight forward, keeping the Sabbath according to the law of God.

 

[BarneyFife]

Upon one Sabbath day, as the Saviour and His disciples returned from the place of worship, they passed through a field of ripening grain. Jesus had continued His work to a late hour, and while passing through the fields, the disciples began to gather the heads of grain, and to eat the kernels after rubbing them in their hands. On any other day this act would have excited no comment, for one passing through a field of grain, an orchard, or a vineyard, was at liberty to gather what he desired to eat. See Deuteronomy 23:24, 25. But to do this on the Sabbath was held to be an act of desecration. Not only was the gathering of the grain a kind of reaping, but the rubbing of it in the hands was a kind of threshing. Thus, in the opinion of the rabbis, there was a double offense.


The spies at once complained to Jesus, saying, “Behold, Thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the Sabbath day.”


When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.


The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. “Have ye not read so much as this,” He said, “what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread,... which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?” “And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” “Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.” “The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matthew 12:5, 6.


If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.


Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the “Lord of the Sabbath,”—One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.


Jesus did not let the matter pass without administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, “If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.” Matthew 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.


Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.

 

[BarneyFife]

That is an open question Brake, do you obey the Sabbath sir? Why is it difficult to obey?:
(Numbers 15:32-36) . . .While the Israelites were in the wilderness, they found a man collecting pieces of wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him collecting wood brought him up to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly. 34 They committed him into custody because it had not been specified what should be done to him. 35 And Jehovah said to Moses: “The man should be put to death without fail, and the whole assembly should stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the whole assembly brought him outside the camp and stoned him so that he died, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses.

My point is, if you want to live the law, then are you willing to accept the punishment for the sin? You do understand you would be executed by now correct?

Penalties for breaking laws during the Theocracy were of a purely civil nature. No man can pay the debt owed for sin by suffering the first death. Christ had to suffer the second death for sin's debt.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I know most don't consider the Sabbath relevant, and it's certainly understandable, seeing that's the one commandment most churches don't preach. However, I believe the Sabbath is going to take center state regarding the fulfillment of end times prophecy, so I would be remiss if I didn't share my views, kinda like a watchman who decides not to sound the alarm. ;)

I really don't know Pman, one thing is certain God never changes. We only know the world after the sin of Adam, perhaps those laws given to us would never have been given had Adam remained faithful, but logic would reason that He would have in time given more instruction than simply naming the animals which would have been completed and filling the earth with humans.

From the time God made the first covenant however there have always been regulations for His people, and the Bible indicates new Scrolls will be opened, so anything we think on what the new system will be would simply be speculation. God is big on education, right now in these last days He is providing an abundance of spiritual food so we can walk in His paths Isa 2:2,3:Mat 24:45-47

Ecc 3:11 could be taken as an indicator that we will continue learning eternally, but never come to know all God does. I am glad you agree with Paul, that we are not to judge those who both keep or do not keep the Sabbath Law. Col 2:16,17, I certainly do.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Penalties for breaking laws during the Theocracy were of a purely civil nature. No man can pay the debt owed for sin by suffering the first death. Christ had to suffer the second death for sin's debt.

Amen Barn!

 

[BarneyFife]

When the Lord rested on the 7th day, nothing is said of Him blessing it, though no doubt it was a blessing.

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.

Correct. I was not clear.

You were quite clear. You were also entirely incorrect.

God blessed His 7th day of rest and sanctified it in the beginning,

Thanks, but we already knew that. It was you who didn't.

Perhaps you're just thinking out loud.

but did not bless a sabbath day by commandment, until the wilderness after Egypt.

Rank damage control. Nothing is blessed "by Commandment." God just blesses stuff.

.

 

[BarneyFife]

Amen Barn!

AMEN Bob!


So what does the imposition of civil penalties pertaining to a defunct earthly Theocracy have to do with the relevancy/perpetuity of the 4th commandment?

.

 

[BarneyFife]

I really don't know Pman, one thing is certain God never changes. We only know the world after the sin of Adam, perhaps those laws given to us would never have been given had Adam remained faithful, but logic would reason that He would have in time given more instruction than simply naming the animals which would have been completed and filling the earth with humans.

From the time God made the first covenant however there have always been regulations for His people, and the Bible indicates new Scrolls will be opened, so anything we think on what the new system will be would simply be speculation. God is big on education, right now in these last days He is providing an abundance of spiritual food so we can walk in His paths Isa 2:2,3:Mat 24:45-47

Ecc 3:11 could be taken as an indicator that we will continue learning eternally, but never come to know all God does. I am glad you agree with Paul, that we are not to judge those who both keep or do not keep the Sabbath Law. Col 2:16,17, I certainly do.

What, exactly, would you say constitutes 'judging those who do or do not keep the Sabbath law,' Bob? This sentiment seems to stem from a reading of Colossians 2. What would you say the phrase "Let no man therefore judge you" means, exactly?

.

 

[BarneyFife]

You preach a sabbath as by law of commandment today. You are a sabbath commander.

This is self-contradictory. I have authority to preach, but none to command.

The modern sabbath people are those who make a sabbath of their own with exceptions for working on the sabbath, and make any such wages to become Corban to their offering plates.

I don't know anyone who has made a sabbath of their own. The "exceptions" are authored by Christ, Himself. They are actually not exceptions at all since Christ does not make exceptions to His law. He advocates for the preservation and relief of His creatures 7 days per week. His father works 7 days per week, as does He, Himself. But not for personal gain. The donating of salary/wages received by first-responders has nothing to do with Christ's teaching on the 5th commandment in Mark 7. "Corban" is not a dirty word. It is simply the name given to gifts devoted to temple service.

If you reject that modern perversion of the Lord's sabbath, then say so.

I don't know how to reject something that I don't even acknowledge.

However, you did teach the basis for modern hypocritical exceptions, by wrongly saying Jesus was providing exceptions to working on the sabbath in His day.

At the risk of being redundant, The sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. There are no exceptions to the proper keeping of the eternal Sabbath. Even before there was an earth or, perhaps, a seven-day cycle, there was a need for God's creatures to come apart and rest (cease--not recuperate from weariness) and commune with the LORD especially, for a time.

You now rightly agree with me, that He was being accused of profaning the Sabbath, by spurning the added traditions and rules of rabbis to the law of the Sabbath.

You flatter yourself. I have never been of any other mind on the matter.

 

[BarneyFife]

I and anyone else who reads your mocking of daily spiritual worship of God in Christ Jesus.

Along with worshiping in truth, I know of no other way to properly worship but in Spirit, so any conception of my having mocked such a thing is a mistake either by perception of the reader or by my expression.

If you reject the modern sabbath with exceptions for working on the sabbath, then say so.

This appears to be just some kind of redundant, antagonistic needling. I mark it but I know not how to respond meaningfully. I do not acknowledge this thing which you incessantly insist exists. If there is some other purpose for this vexation, let me know, please.

What is thrown out by modern sabbath commanders is the Lord's sabbath as written to do no work therein. No exceptions.

Lather, rinse, repeat?

You do the same with all Scriptures to command a sabbath today: invent it earlier than the wilderness, and try to produce one out of Heb 4:9.

As well as produce several false teachings in order to support your commandment. (Which I have been recording, and will share in another thread the many ways in which modern sabbath commanding is false, as well as the modern sabbath itself being corrupt.)

You may as well not have bothered to quote me at all. This is just another false accusation entirely unrelated to the general, non-accusatory question.

Your sabbath commandment is just another way of dividing the body of Christ, through men's commandments taught for doctrine of Christ.

You separate yourself from the rest of the body by your personal commandment, that no apostle ever wrote to do, nor rebuked for profaning.

More of the same: Talking past people and the discussion at hand to make a false accusation.

Nice speech. Stop commanding all Christians to keep your sabbath, and all is well.

Lather...

I have no sabbath (Jesus is the LORD), no authority to command...

You do it consistently.

Indeed. "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy" is without a doubt, the ultimate stumper.

I have a lot of trouble with "one jot or tittle," too.

People have written entire books about the difficulties in the latter portions of Colossians 2, however:

There are no difficult passages of Scripture

Here you claim that the difficult passages you claim (above) that I, not you (at least, I guess that's what you were suggesting), consistently twist and champion actually don't exist.

But, maybe you're off the hook in at least one sense:

2 Peter 3:16 He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

And your claim that they only exist to false teachers is not substantiated by this verse, either.

"Some parts of his letters are hard to understand" is a standalone statement.

(BTW, "Lather...")

The Pharisees of old would rise up to condemn your modern playtime sabbath.

What they did and would today rise up to condemn is the eternal Sabbath of the LORD Jesus Christ.

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[Desire Of All Nations]

I started several threads on the first three commandments and virtually no objection was raised. The contrast to a thread on the fourth is like night and day.

The problem with anti-Sabbatarians in the professing Christian world is that they have been conditioned by society to believe that Saturday is their day to do whatever they want with it, irrespective of the fact that God already consecrated this day as something that belonged to Him 6 millennia ago.

Anti-Sabbatarians will never admit it, but they ultimately make all of their slick, righteous-sounding arguments against the Sabbath because they don't want God telling them how to spend what they perceive as time that they own. They look at the Sabbath as time that will be stolen from them as opposed to giving God the time that is rightfully His.