Carnal Hypocrisy of Sabbath Commanders

[Phoneman777]

False. Not at first.

When it is first made as commandment in Exodus 16, it was to test the obedience of the Israelites by the gathering and baking of manna.

When it was made law in Exodus 20, it was made a shadow of God's rest, and Paul confirmed that Psalms 95 was as a foreshadowing of Christ's rest.

The point of this thread is proven: the modern sabbath commanded by carnal men is hypocritical with working exceptions to fit the times.

The Lord's Sabbath is not commanded to day, much less kept as written.

You keep your exception-ridden corban-filled sabbath all you want.

It's a vain show for wanna-be sabbath keepers.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

There is no honor with God in a show of fleshly obedience to a carnal commandment of men.

No, what you're arguing is false. The Sabbath wasn't "made" in Exodus 16. Pharaoh said, "Behold, the people of the land are many, and you make them "rest" (Hebrew: "shabbat") which was well before Exodus 16.

Also, when Exodus 20 says the Sabbath day was "blessed", that blessing could only have been bestowed in Eden when the 7th day was blessed -- because 2 Chronicles 17:27 KJV says when God blesses something, it doesn't need any overhauls or booster shots - it stays blessed forever.

 

[robert derrick]

No, what you're arguing is false. The Sabbath wasn't "made" in Exodus 16. Pharaoh said, "Behold, the people of the land are many, and you make them "rest" (Hebrew: "shabbat") which was well before Exodus 16.

Also, when Exodus 20 says the Sabbath day was "blessed", that blessing could only have been bestowed in Eden when the 7th day was blessed

You can keep twisting Scripture more and more, by taking everything out of context: The Lord commanded Moses to take Israel into the wilderness for a sacrifice and feast.

It's your destructive ditch. keep digging.

And the Lord's Sabbath was not first commanded at Sinai, but earlier in the wilderness. It was made law at Sinai, where the Lord first blessed that commandment and made it hallowed.

When the Lord rested on the 7th day, nothing is said of Him blessing it, though no doubt it was a blessing.

because 2 Chronicles 17:27 KJV says when God blesses something, it doesn't need any overhauls or booster shots - it stays blessed forever.

Even as His name Yehovah, which was changed to Jesus, and is now Jesus forever, even as His rest is everlasting, if we cease from our own works.

I would say you ware a wanna-be sabbath-keeper of the OT, but your excuse-ridden sabbath is not the Lord's, which is the confirmed hypocrisy condemned in this thread.

 

[Robert Gwin]

We have to agree that whether mankind determines to do or not do the "whole duty of man" doesn't make that duty any less that what it is: "fear God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS".

Amen Pman!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Grace is not a license to keep violating any of God's laws, including the Sabbath, right?

Violating God's laws are a sin sir, His kindness through Jesus' ransom sacrifice can release the individual from sin, as long as they are truly repentant, but those who "keep violating" in other words practice sin, you are very well correct.

We do not believe the Sabbath law was carried over to Christians sir. If it was like I said, you, I and everyone we know is past tense, history, yesterday's news;). Unlike you most people do not even know when the Sabbath is, likely you are aware of that being that you do know.

 

[BarneyFife]

False. Not at first.

When it is first made as commandment in Exodus 16, it was to test the obedience of the Israelites by the gathering and baking of manna.

When it was made law in Exodus 20, it was made a shadow of God's rest, and Paul confirmed that Psalms 95 was as a foreshadowing of Christ's rest.

The point of this thread is proven: the modern sabbath commanded by carnal men is hypocritical with working exceptions to fit the times.

The Lord's Sabbath is not commanded to day, much less kept as written.

You keep your exception-ridden corban-filled sabbath all you want.

It's a vain show for wanna-be sabbath keepers.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

There is no honor with God in a show of fleshly obedience to a carnal commandment of men.

I'm hauntingly amazed at how someone can be so fortified against the government of God.

You speak of hypocrisy yet, while you say you no longer debate the perpetuity of the 4th commandment you, in fact, do so constantly.

What other purpose could there be of initiating -FIVE- new threads arrayed against an obviously integral and indisposable component of the eternal Decalogue, written by the finger of God Himself on tables of stone amidst thunderings and lightnings and earth tremors?

And what is it with these "confirmed"/"proven"/"established" pontificating pronouncements?

Jesus spent an awful lot of time teaching how the Sabbath was to be kept for something that was shortly to be extricated from His law.

He made the "exceptions" to which you so vehemently object. His custom was to go to the synagogue on Sabbath and He is there depicted as standing up and reading the scriptures.

The Sabbath is mentioned more times per volume in the New Testament than in the old. The third commandment is not given nearly as implicitly as the fourth and not plainly at all, as you claim. No one objects to the call for abstinence from taking God's name in vain.

I started several threads on the first three commandments and virtually no objection was raised. The contrast to a thread on the fourth is like night and day.

I find it quite odd that Sabbath-decriers can't get together on why they object to it. Some discard the law altogether. Some claim a 10% discount. And others claim to keep the Sabbath 24/7 in a spiritualistic sense (or nonsense, depending on your point of view).

The mention of the Sabbath by name for the first time in Exodus 16 in no way establishes that it was there first given as a command. Abraham is said to have kept all of God's commandments, and the Hebrew root word for "Sabbath" was also used to indicate the weekly cycle, meaning "seven" or "cease," which originated the day after creation was finished. The weekly cycle, inseparable from the Sabbath was woven into the fabric of the life of God's people from that time. Assuming that the Sabbath was instituted in Exodus 16 requires a hermeneutic that would not be consistent with rightly dividing the Word; precept upon precept; here a little, there a little; etc.

And that ought to do for now. :cool:

 

[bbyrd009]

And what is it with these "confirmed"/"proven"/"established" pontificating pronouncements?

Matthew 24:15 Lexicon: "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
maybe?

 

[BarneyFife]

I can't understand why anyone would want to shun the memorial of God's creation as if it were some loathsome yoke of bondage.

The first 20 minutes of this video are eye-opening to me, as regards God's loving watchcare over us. His providence is so beautiful and incredible. That He could love us so much even in creation before there was even a need for redemption. I suppose it's silly, in a way, to speak of before-and-after with reference to a God Who is eternal in nature. But I gotta go with what I know, right? (until I learn somethin' else )

PRAISE THE LORD!!!

 

[BarneyFife]

Matthew 24:15 Lexicon: "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
maybe?

You kill me, BB.

 

[bbyrd009]

You kill me, BB.

ah well i guess it does seem far-fetched maybe…at first
but when i say "confirmed"/"proven"/"established" Who comes to mind?

 

[marksman]

1. I never read of them ever speaking of worshipping God, and if so, never in Spirit and in truth.

And so, the outer day is everything, and the inner man is nothing, since all we hear about is the outer and nothing of the inner.

2. They also excuse working their jobs on their Sabbath day, if it is required, such as military, police, emergency service, gvt rule, etc...

And they even try to pay penance by donating their pay elsewhere.

I thought the commandment was not to work, not to not to keep the pay for working.

3. The obvious of course is separating the commandments of the law of Moses from the law of Moses, so that they can circumcise themselves from other Christians by their Sabbath day, and not be debtors to do the whole law of Moses.

Is it still a sin to heal on the Sabbath day, or is this the reformed Sabbath keeping of the christian religion, as opposed to that of the jews religion?

Is the reformation of Christ simply to make a less strict religion?

I really do not know what you are hoping to achieve by bagging people who meet on the sabbath? I would say it was an unholy attempt to show everyone you are right and they are wrong. Two negatives do not make a positive and all you are doing is being as negative as you can
Seems you prefer to knock down rather than build up.

it would be nice if you gave the benefit of the doubt and people being capable of thinking for themselves. I have read book after book about keeping the sabbath and your dissertation doesn't come anywhere near persuasive.

 

[BarneyFife]

ah well i guess it does seem far-fetched maybe…at first
but when i say "confirmed"/"proven"/"established" Who comes to mind?

Do you mean who, from the Bible, comes to mind? Because I was referring to the constant, triumphalist, self-approbating statements of divinely-established dogma in this and other threads from the OP.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you mean who, from the Bible, comes to mind? Because I was referring to the constant, triumphalist, self-approbating statements of divinely-established dogma in this and other threads from the OP.

how better might that v be fulfilled, iyo? When one says “this is that, that is this” they are diametrically opposed to What is it? at least imo, and they are in essence proclaiming themselves to be God

 

[BarneyFife]

how better might that v be fulfilled, iyo? When one says “this is that, that is this” they are diametrically opposed to What is it? at least imo, and they are in essence proclaiming themselves to be God

All I know is what I've learned so far. Best I can figure, the main thing is: "But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

On the other/same (depending on your point of view) hand, the 10-point law that defines sin, which we all broke in sinning, the penalty of which Christ paid the price with His life, has developed a gigantic, gaping hole about 4 items down, and not too many folks want to hear about that. Bringing it up causes some surpisingly umbrageous passion. And lately, it's not even those giving the warning that are bringing it up. The threads are all being started by objectors now.

That's about where I'm at at this point. I could be wrong, I guess, but the resistance seems to become more apparent to me all the time. No kidding. I've literally watched the anger and hatred toward rest and regeneration grow exponentially. I didn't give them the name "commandments," and folks do not like that word at all. Just sayin'.

I really gotta find a class on how to avoid rambling.

 

[bbyrd009]

All I know is what I've learned so far. Best I can figure, the main thing is: "But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

On the other/same (depending on your point of view) hand, the 10-point law that defines sin, which we all broke in sinning, the penalty of which Christ paid the price with His life, has developed a gigantic, gaping hole about 4 items down, and not too many folks want to hear about that. Bringing it up causes some surpisingly umbrageous passion. And lately, it's not even those giving the warning that are bringing it up. The threads are all being started by objectors now.

That's about where I'm at at this point. I could be wrong, I guess, but the resistance seems to become more apparent to me all the time. No kidding. I've literally watched the anger and hatred toward rest and regeneration grow exponentially. I didn't give them the name "commandments," and folks do not like that word at all. Just sayin'.

I really gotta find a class on how to avoid rambling.

ha no, i think i get you
interesting imo that we have many points of division in Scripture, that do not seem to have an agreeable outcome, but always go around in endless circles. I think this is why the Bible remains so popular; these concepts do eventually bear truth, imo, but they also reveal the person, along the way, unlike Tao stories, which no one disagrees with.

So, as you say, when anger and hatred are revealed, it becomes more obvious who is not living by the Romans 5:8 ref, right? Why, really, does anyone care if one keeps a certain day, and another holds all days alike? Be fully convinced in your own mind, eh?

So it appears that the Bible intentionally sets these up, and then knocks them down elsewhere; dont we dispute mostly to verify the “truth” of our own position?

 

[BarneyFife]

dont we dispute mostly to verify the “truth” of our own position?

Well, it probably sounds naive or corny, but I'm pretty sure the devil is after us, and I really don't want him to get anybody. Especially not if it turns out after all that it actually is my responsibility to warn (not "command" or "condemn") folks. I'm glad somebody cared enough to warn me. I've actually got all the verification I need. I've never had an existential crisis in my whole life that I recall. Sometimes I get a little too high-strung. I'm really sorry about that. There you go. We've heard it all before, but I don't know any other way to say it. :)

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[robert derrick]

I really do not know what you are hoping to achieve by bagging people who meet on the sabbath? I would say it was an unholy attempt to show everyone you are right and they are wrong. Two negatives do not make a positive and all you are doing is being as negative as you can
Seems you prefer to knock down rather than build up.

it would be nice if you gave the benefit of the doubt and people being capable of thinking for themselves. I have read book after book about keeping the sabbath and your dissertation doesn't come anywhere near persuasive.

You confirm those commanding a sabbath to all Christians never speak of worship in the spirit, nor of the inner man.

The modern sabbath people boast of today is not the Lord's sabbath at all, but an exception-based hypocrisy, that is mollified by declaring 'necessary' working on their sabbath days to be Corban.

There is no problem with Christians, jews, nor Muslims thinking to keep a sabbath in modern times, but like circumcision, when it is commanded as by law, they are corrupting the law of Christ with their personal tradition, as well as corrupting the Lord's Sabbath itself, but allowing for work on their sabbath days

This is the corruption and hypocrisy Jesus rebuked the religious for of His day, and still does today:

For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[robert derrick]

You speak of hypocrisy yet, while you say you no longer debate the perpetuity of the 4th commandment you, in fact, do so constantly.

What other purpose could there be of initiating -FIVE- new threads arrayed against an obviously integral and indisposable component of the eternal Decalogue, written by the finger of God Himself on tables of stone amidst thunderings and lightnings and earth tremors?

I now only expose the hypocrisy of your corrupt exception-ridden and Corban-producing sabbath, that is commanded today.

Jesus spent an awful lot of time teaching how the Sabbath was to be kept for something that was shortly to be extricated from His law.

As He did all the law of Moses, being a Jew made of the seed of David.

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

He made the "exceptions" to which you so vehemently object. His custom was to go to the synagogue on Sabbath and He is there depicted as standing up and reading the scriptures.

This is a false teaching to allow for the modern corrupt sabbath with exceptions for working.

Jesus was falsely accused of profaning the Lord's Sabbath according to the corrupted rabbit traditions and rules added to the law of the Sabbath, such as rubbing corn to eat and heal. They also condemned Him for not ceremonially washing His hands before eating, and for eating with publicans and sinners.

This false teaching therefore agrees with the accusations of the religious hypocrites against Jesus, and so say Jesus was making 'exceptions' for 'working' on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is mentioned more times per volume in the New Testament than in the old.

So was the name Yehovah, but the Lord's name is now Jesus. The God of Israel commanded the law of the Sabbath to Moses, and the risen God of Israel does not command it to His apostles.

The third commandment is not given nearly as implicitly as the fourth and not plainly at all, as you claim. No one objects to the call for abstinence from taking God's name in vain.

I started several threads on the first three commandments and virtually no objection was raised. The contrast to a thread on the fourth is like night and day.

That is because the apostles wrote the 3rd commandment,

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

As well as the first two, and the last 6, not the 4th.

Unless of course a commandment to keep a sabbath is lurking in Heb 4:9.

I find it quite odd that Sabbath-decriers can't get together on why they object to it.

I denounce the current fad of a pseudo-sabbath that mocks the Lord's Sabbath.

If I were to keep the Lord's Sabbath as a Christian, I would do so as written:

Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

No exceptions to working on the Sabbath, and no Corban lucre for the offering plate by exceptions.

The mention of the Sabbath by name for the first time in Exodus 16 in no way establishes that it was there first given as a command.

Yes, it does, because it is.

Sabbath commanders mishandle Scripture, in order to command a corrupt version of the Lord's Sabbath as written in Scripture of old.

Abraham is said to have kept all of God's commandments,

And no man knows what those commandments and statutes were, because they are not written, except of course for circumcision. As well as such commandments as depart Ur of the Chaldees, separate from Lot, and sacrifice Isaac upon an altar.

The weekly cycle, inseparable from the Sabbath was woven into the fabric of the life of God's people from that time.

An example of a day of rest out of seven was made by God to all people yesterday and today, whether believer or unbeliever.

A commanded Sabbath to the Lord was only given to God's people, which first came in the wilderness.

Assuming that the Sabbath was instituted in Exodus 16 requires a hermeneutic that would not be consistent with rightly dividing the Word; precept upon precept; here a little, there a little; etc.

Hermeneutic Shermeneutic

The only assumption plainly made here, is that a commandment for a Sabbath MUST have been made before the wilderness.

And great amounts of false arguments must likewise be made to find it.

 

[robert derrick]

And others claim to keep the Sabbath 24/7 in a spiritualistic sense (or nonsense, depending on your point of view).

What did the man say? If you let people talk long enough?

And so now, we see that those who do not speak of daily worship in the Spirit, now openly mock it.

 

[BarneyFife]

I now only expose the hypocrisy of your corrupt exception-ridden and Corban-producing sabbath, that is commanded today.




As He did all the law of Moses, being a Jew made of the seed of David.

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.



This is a false teaching to allow for the modern corrupt sabbath with exceptions for working.

Jesus was falsely accused of profaning the Lord's Sabbath according to the corrupted rabbit traditions and rules added to the law of the Sabbath, such as rubbing corn to eat and heal. They also condemned Him for not ceremonially washing His hands before eating, and for eating with publicans and sinners.

This false teaching therefore agrees with the accusations of the religious hypocrites against Jesus, and so say Jesus was making 'exceptions' for 'working' on the Sabbath.



So was the name Yehovah, but the Lord's name is now Jesus. The God of Israel commanded the law of the Sabbath to Moses, and the risen God of Israel does not command it to His apostles.



That is because the apostles wrote the 3rd commandment,

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

As well as the first two, and the last 6, not the 4th.

Unless of course a commandment to keep a sabbath is lurking in Heb 4:9.



I denounce the current fad of a pseudo-sabbath that mocks the Lord's Sabbath.

If I were to keep the Lord's Sabbath as a Christian, I would do so as written:

Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

No exceptions to working on the Sabbath, and no Corban lucre for the offering plate by exceptions.



Yes, it does, because it is.

Sabbath commanders mishandle Scripture, in order to command a corrupt version of the Lord's Sabbath as written in Scripture of old.



And no man knows what those commandments and statutes were, because they are not written, except of course for circumcision. As well as such commandments as depart Ur of the Chaldees, separate from Lot, and sacrifice Isaac upon an altar.



An example of a day of rest out of seven was made by God to all people yesterday and today, whether believer or unbeliever.

A commanded Sabbath to the Lord was only given to God's people, which first came in the wilderness.



Hermeneutic Shermeneutic

The only assumption plainly made here, is that a commandment for a Sabbath MUST have been made before the wilderness.

And great amounts of false arguments must likewise be made to find it.

What did the man say? If you let people talk long enough?

And so now, we see that those who do not speak of daily worship in the Spirit, now openly mock it.

Who is the "we" in "we see?"

I'm sorry but the "hypocritical, modern Sabbath" theory is just an odd variation on the old "cultural conditioning" theological fallacy.

If we throw the 4th commandment in the hopper because they didn't have the stuff we have back then:

What do we do with the rest of the Bible? (That's a rhetorical question, btw.)

We then tend our steps toward deciding what is inspired and what is not in the Bible, basically, to adopt your theory. It ultimately leads to chaos, which is the problem with virtually all Sabbath objections. We can convince ourselves it's not there, which causes a cognitive dissonance that leads to all manner of other delusions.

All of this confusion would be unnecessary if folks would not refuse to deal with the divine paradoxical nature of God's character as taught in the Bible. He makes it so plain as to make it inexcusable for any Bible student to acknowledge it (Job 11, Romans 11:33-36, Psalms 50:21, Isaiah 55:8-11). The Bible is not an easy book for sinners to understand. It is designed that way. It separates the sheep from the goats; blows away the chaff. Wisdom is hidden from those who do not hunger and thirst after righteousness.

A world, or even a universe that is not arranged to set aside special, regular time to behold the beauty and majesty of the Creator and His infinite love in offering up and verily giving His Son to the whole human race forever, just won't work.

It is the scourge of Christendom that so many are contented with twisting and championing certain difficult passages of Scripture to the complete dismissal and/or denial of others that are much more plain.

Talking past opponents with parroted promulgations is not going to change the reality outside of these floods of flight-of-fancy threads. Self-righteous proclamations only injure oneself. There is no "we."

 

[BarneyFife]

When the Lord rested on the 7th day, nothing is said of Him blessing it, though no doubt it was a blessing.

​

New International Version
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

New Living Translation
And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation.

English Standard Version
So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

King James Bible
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

New King James Version
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

New American Standard Bible
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Amplified Bible
So God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it [as His own, that is, set it apart as holy from other days], because in it He rested from all His work which He had created and done.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, for on it He rested from His work of creation.

Contemporary English Version
God blessed the seventh day and made it special, because on that day he rested from his work.

Good News Translation
He blessed the seventh day and set it apart as a special day, because by that day he had completed his creation and stopped working.

International Standard Version
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God stopped working on everything that he had been creating.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it He rested from all His work which God in creating had made.

Literal Standard Version
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctifies it, for in it He has ceased from all His work which God had created for making.

New Revised Standard Version
So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.

Young's Literal Translation
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.

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Can't you see what's happening?
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