The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Phoneman777]

Your founder Ellen G. White is a non,prophetess, 2,000d+ dreams and visions given by God, a fairy tale, laughable!

Your pseudo-"god" the Pope has cast his spell over you, making you think you're a non-Catholic but are guilty of following the Roman death cult Papacy, which slaughtered millions and millions of innocent faithful Protestants and would return to doing so in a heartbeat if given the chance.

Jesuit Futurism is a lie.
Iranaeus was Historicist - read and learn: Early Church Fathers Were Historicist – H. Grattan Guinness

You, like all Jesuit Futurists, are the equivalent of what the KGB called "useful idiots" - those who fought ignorantly but fiercely for the authority of the KGB, not realizing the KGB regarded them as an enemy with potential to later fight as fiercely against them as they'd fought presently for them. The Papacy thanks you openly, but snickers and laughs at you behind the scenes.

 

[Phoneman777]

Why don't we read anywhere before the mid-16th century about a "last 7 years of tribulation" or "2,000+ year gap between the 69th and 70th Week" or a "7 year peace treaty between Arabs and Jews" or "Antichrist will break the 7 year peace treaty 3 1/2 years after it's established" or "Armageddon will come on the heels of the dissolution of the 7 year peace treaty"???

I've asked Truth7t7 but I get no response.

 

[The Light]

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

That is not "THE ANTICHRIST" the man of sin, being talked about in Daniel 11. There are many false Christs in the last days.

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

That King of the North that claims to be God, is the second beast. The first beast that was and is not and will come again is the Antichrist.

Rev 13
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The King of the North in Daniel 11 is the rider on the white horse, the second beast.

Rev 6
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

In conclusion, the antichrist will not be Jewish.

If you understood what the king of the north is, you would understand why he is not Jewish either.

 

[Davy]

Most are not aware that they were spread across the world to every nation. No, they don't make up a huge portion of the church, in the western nations. That is like saying everyone in Great Britain, Wales, and Ireland are all descendants from the 10 lost tribes. How about Native Americans, Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Chinese people?

Oh, yes they do... make up a huge portion of Christ's Church!

Asia Minor and Europe were specifically most populated by the Cimmerian and Scythian tribes that migrated from the east. Linguist Leroy Waterman of the University of Michigan in the 1930s translated from the Assyria tablets what they called the ten tribe "house of Israel" they took captive (per 2 Kings 17). He linked their Assyrian names to the Cimmerians (the C pronounced like a K). The Cimmerians is where the word Celt comes from. And the original peoples of western Europe that settled there were the Celts.

I even had a Scottish pastor that sent me a copy of an article in one of their newspapers about a DNA study done in the British Isles. The Anglo-Saxons of England have always tried to claim they are of a different race than the Celtic peoples. The DNA study showed they are from the same root stock as the Irish, the Scots, the French (Gauls), northern European stock also in the rest of the European nations. That proves what the field of Anthropology already knows about the migrations of the peoples called Cimmerians (and Scythians).

And just where did most of the American colonists migrate from? From Europe. Even my ancestors that came to the American colonies in the 1600s were from France, having fled Catholic persecution against Protestants.

And the thing is, even the JEWS today do not know where those ten lost tribes of Israel went to. But the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said in his day, the ten tribes were still scattered beyond Euphrates in his day, and were a great number of people.

So yeah, the ten tribes represent the 'lost sheep of the house of Israel' that Jesus said He was sent to, and not the Jews. The MAJORITY of the Jews STILL... reject The Gospel today, so that's how we know Jesus was not pointing to the Jews with that 'lost sheep' idea. Furthermore, after the split of old Israel by God in 1 Kings 11, the "house of Israel" label applied ONLY to the ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel". So the ten tribes were separated from their Jewish brethren just like Joseph was separated from his eleven brothers.

 

[Davy]

It is not a mystery. Gods Tribulation sent down from Heaven UPON the Earth and its Inhabitants; IS because of Gods Wrath; and Gods Wrath is Because of Gods Anger of mans CORRUPTION.
....

All that great treatise and STILL rejecting what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 proving that His future coming to gather His Church is AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

 

[Davy]

After the tribulation of the church that has lasted 1992 years.

No pre-trib rapture theory was taught in a Christian Church until John Darby in 1830's Great Britain. That means for over 1,800 years, the Christian Church held to a POST-TRIBULATION COMING OF CHRIST AND GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH.

 

[Davy]

Read the scripture you posted above and it is obvious you are pulling your own ideas about it. That's very dangerous.
How do you get pre-trib rapture out of hunting souls to make them fly Obviously not the same thing.

You can't be serious. You never heard the Gospel song, "I'll Fly Away"?

I think it was country singer Jim Reeves that originally did that song, but it's a favorite of many Pre-trib Rapture Churches, as they use it to point to their so-called 'rapture' theory.

And the Ezekiel 13 subject is... about the idea of flying away to save one's soul. Viola! The pre-trib rapture theory, and God is against it!

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course, Iranaeus saw a future Antichrist because Antichrist, like the Second Coming of Jesus, was still future!

What Iranaeus did not see and did not include were the specifics of Jesuit Futurism - unknown before the 16th century - which I listed above and which you failed to address, like that ridiculous 2,000+ year "gap" between the 69th and 70th Week. Where's that in Against Heresies? Your claim is Jesuit Futurism goes back to the beginning - where's the support??????

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal "Future" Weeks Explained

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

You follow your papal death cult in Rome and teach well Jesuit Futurism, which I've shown you does NOT predate the 16th century.
I know your Jesuit handlers, like all cult leaders, have standing orders for their Jesuit faithful to not read anything critical of Jesuit doctrine, but free your bound mind and read why "The Early Church Fathers Were Historicist" by England's greatest prophecy teacher, H. Grattan Guinness:
Early Church Fathers Were Historicist – H. Grattan Guinness

I have nothing to do with Jesuit futurism as you falsely claim, nor do I believe in or follow the false teachings of Roman Catholicism

However you follow the false prophetess in Ellen G. White in 7th Day Adventism, and her 2,000 self proclaimed dreams and visions

 

[Taken]

All that great treatise and STILL rejecting what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 proving that His future coming to gather His Church is AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Lying is not becoming to you.
No one said they rejected Scripture.
I reject your understanding.
Matt. And Mark are brief synopsis’, of hearing without seeing.
John was privileged to “go up hither”, and give us a detailed eye witness account of what he saw and heard Spirits saying.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why don't we read anywhere before the mid-16th century about a "last 7 years of tribulation" or "2,000+ year gap between the 69th and 70th Week" or a "7 year peace treaty between Arabs and Jews" or "Antichrist will break the 7 year peace treaty 3 1/2 years after it's established" or "Armageddon will come on the heels of the dissolution of the 7 year peace treaty"???

I've asked Truth7t7 but I get no response.

You have been answered in post 1848 above

 

[Truth7t7]

No pre-trib rapture theory was taught in a Christian Church until John Darby in 1830's Great Britain. That means for over 1,800 years, the Christian Church held to a POST-TRIBULATION COMING OF CHRIST AND GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH.

Well said!

Yes Darby 1830's is the modern father of the pre-trib rapture, he went around the western world pushing the doctrines, coming 5 times to America and Canada

C.I. Scofield and his 1909 reference Bible was the greatest world influence, having Darby's teachings in the margins, selling millions of copies around the world

Scofield's disciple and prodigy in Lewis S. Chafer started Dallas Theological Seminary in Scofield's church as a Bible course

It's my opinion Scofield was the greatest world influence in planting the corrupt seeds of dispensationalism, much more than Darby himself

 

[Davy]

Lying is not becoming to you.
No one said they rejected Scripture.
I reject your understanding.
Matt. And Mark are brief synopsis’, of hearing without seeing.
John was privileged to “go up hither”, and give us a detailed eye witness account of what he saw and heard Spirits saying.

LORD JESUS is who YOU are calling a LIAR, not me...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

 

[Keraz]

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith thru all that must happen.

 

[The Light]

No pre-trib rapture theory was taught in a Christian Church until John Darby in 1830's Great Britain. That means for over 1,800 years, the Christian Church held to a POST-TRIBULATION COMING OF CHRIST AND GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH.

That's some baloney. Paul, Jesus and John all taught a pretribulation rapture. But since you don't understand the scriptures, you can't see it. And if you were correct, which you are not, what does that prove? Germs weren't discovered until 1860. Does that mean anyone that believes in germs is wrong?

 

[Taken]

LORD JESUS is who YOU are calling a LIAR, not me...

No, I did not call you or Jesus a Liar.
I already acknowledged Matt’s account is a brief.
Tribulation of THOSE days...immediately the sun is darkened.
Then....immediately what? It doesn’t say.
It says Then appears the sign of the Son of Man...
It’s not immediate....it’s is recorded Rev 14;14

Already been over this with you .
Even list FOR YOU, the verses in Revelations BETWEEN the Tribulation of THOSE days, and the numerous other things that occurs BEFORE,
Rev 14;14 WHEN ... THEN the Son of Man appears.

Not interested in your false accusations or obvious lack of understanding.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Yep, so the tribulation of those days....not a Big secret Wrath of the Lamb, having opened the 6th seal, the sun darkened...

Rev 6
[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

More tribulations...and 1/3 of the sun is smitten.

Rev.8
[12] And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

More tribulations...the sun again darkened

Rev.9
[2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev 14:14
First sight of the Son of man IN the clouds.


More tribulations...the sun receiving the vial judgement.

Rev.16
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

If you are content with half truths, that’s on you.

 

[Taken]

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.

The pretense that you are a Biblical teacher is not Biblical.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Paul, Jesus and John all taught a pretribulation rapture

No they did not.

Firstly, Paul wrote over and over that we are waiting for Christ’s coming.

Secondly, Christ himself said he’ll be coming after the tribulation.

How something so simple can be complicated by some people is amazing.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's some baloney. Paul, Jesus and John all taught a pretribulation rapture. But since you don't understand the scriptures, you can't see it. And if you were correct, which you are not, what does that prove? Germs weren't discovered until 1860. Does that mean anyone that believes in germs is wrong?

You have one thing 100% correct, I can't see it anywhere, because it's non-existant

A pre-trib rapture isn't found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

Pre-tribbers do nothing more than take the Lords second coming and claim its a pre-trib rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 this being just one example

 

[The Light]

You have one thing 100% correct, I can't see it anywhere, because it's non-existant

A pre-trib rapture isn't found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

Pre-tribbers do nothing more than take the Lords second coming and claim its a pre-trib rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 this being just one example

Exactly. This is Paul teaching about the rapture TO THE CLOUDS. What you consider the second coming is when Jesus comes to the earth with the armies from heaven. The marriage supper of the lamb is in heaven where those raptured attend.