Carnal Hypocrisy of Sabbath Commanders

[Phoneman777]

God does not partially write the law in your mind and place it on your heart He desires you to follow, you get it all! So if you understand that, and if you understand the biblical definition of sin, and accept through the law we become conscious of sin, how can your church accept people as christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set saturday sabbath?

I can see how God would partially write the law on our hearts. Were not there Christians who were rebaptized after finding out about the Holy Ghost? Who is going to argue they were any less saved before than after?

The point is to "continue in My word" if we are to be His disciples indeed. When we learn something new like the Sabbath, we ought to sayk, "OK, Holy Spirit, write that on my heart too", not fight against it because doing so shows that we've withdrawn our discipleship.

 

[savedbygrace1]

No, hold on, Kimasabe, YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS: you need to explain this confusion that erupts when you make the Old Covenant equal Mosaic Law.
No one is arguing our righteousness comes from obedience to the law, so that's that.

Now, you've got two choices: either explain this confusion which erupts in Romans 3:31 KJV from your making Mosiac Law equal Old Covenant or retract the statement. You don't get to make such bold assertions then gloss over them when confronted with a challenge to them and expect that people will continue a dialogue.

The old covenant was the Covenant God made with the people when he handed the 613 laws to the people of Israel. If they obeyed it, that would be their righteousness(Deut6:25) Your wanting to insert covenant instead of law into rom3:31 is rather immature

 

[savedbygrace1]

I can see how God would partially write the law on our hearts. Were not there Christians who were rebaptized after finding out about the Holy Ghost? Who is going to argue they were any less saved before than after?

The point is to "continue in My word" if we are to be His disciples indeed. When we learn something new like the Sabbath, we ought to sayk, "OK, Holy Spirit, write that on my heart too", not fight against it because doing so shows that we've withdrawn our discipleship.

So in your view, God only partially writes the law in your mind and places it on your heart at the point of conversion? So you get a licence to sin for a while until you learn better? I don't think so

 

[Phoneman777]

The old covenant was the Covenant God made with the people when he handed the 613 laws to the people of Israel. If they obeyed it, that would be their righteousness(Deut6:25) Your wanting to insert covenant instead of law into rom3:31 is rather immature

I don't need a description of the OC...I need you to explain the confusion which erupts in Romans 3:31 KJV by making "Old Covenant = law" because doing so means:

"Do we make void the OC through grace? God forbid. Yea, we establish the OC".

Either humble yourself and ask me what is the relationship between the OC, the law, and the promises or retract your statement, but you cannot continue a dialogue with me until this is resolved.

 

[savedbygrace1]

I don't need a description of the OC...I need you to explain the confusion which erupts in Romans 3:31 KJV by making "Old Covenant = law" because doing so means:

"Do we make void the OC through grace? God forbid. Yea, we establish the OC".

Either humble yourself and ask me what is the relationship between the OC, the law, and the promises or retract your statement, but you cannot continue a dialogue with me until this is resolved.

Well we can stop dialogue that's no problem at all. But I have explained to you what the old covenant was. If you don't want to accept it fine. Your logic leaves a lot to be desired in my view concerning rom3:31. So as you want to leave it there, I will bid you good day

 

[Phoneman777]

So in your view, God only partially writes the law in your mind and places it on your heart at the point of conversion? So you get a licence to sin for a while until you learn better? I don't think so

"To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin". Are you arguing God will condemn those who sin ignorantly?

 

[savedbygrace1]

"To him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin". Are you arguing God will condemn those who sin ignorantly?

you cannot sin in ignorance under the new covenant, if the law is in your heart and mind. You have misunderstood the verse you are quoting

 

[Phoneman777]

Well we can stop dialogue that's no problem at all. But I have explained to you what the new covenant was. If you don't want to accept it fine. Your logic leaves a lot to be desired in my view concerning rom3:31. So as you want to leave it there, I will bid you good day

Fine, we can end the discussion, but let the record show you failed to explain the confusion that erupts in Romans 3:31 KJV by making "OC" = "law" and refused to ask how to resolve it.

 

[savedbygrace1]

Fine, we can end the discussion, but let the record show you failed to explain the confusion that erupts in Romans 3:31 KJV by making "OC" = "law" and refused to ask how to resolve it.

And let the record show, you human rationalisation is in my view, ridiculous

 

[Phoneman777]

you cannot sin in ignorance under the new covenant, if the law is in your heart and mind

Sorry, I've no time to waste on those who refuse to acknowledge when they've painted themselves into a theological corner.

 

[Phoneman777]

And let the record show, you human rationalisation is in my view, ridiculous

What's ridiculous is you making the Bible say Christians establish the OC. Peace.

 

[savedbygrace1]

If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. James4:16&17
How in the world can the above be an example of sinning in ignorance? If you know the good you ought to do, and do not do it, you cannot be said to be in ignorance can you

 

[savedbygrace1]

If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. James4:17
Lets give an example for those who misunderstand scripture. God may tell me He wants me to go to Africa and be a missionary. I know that is what God wants me to do, but I do not do it. For me that is sin if you like I have disobeyed God. However, if God does not ask a person to go to Africa and be a missionary, they would not be sinning by not going there, for them, it would not be disobeying God.

 

[savedbygrace1]

And:

And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. Ex24:27

 

[Brakelite]

levitical unclean foods,

You seem to believe clean and unclean were designated as such by an arbitrary levite who just wanted to exalt his own power, and it took Jesus and Christianity to set him straight.

Therefore, you must have heartfelt conviction of sin when you fail to follow applicable law written in your mind and placed on your heart under the new covenant. That is a spiritual fact.

Unless of course over a period of 50 years you've hardened your heart at the numerous times your conscience did tell you that there were 10 commandments and not 9, thus indicating you haven't been listening, and instead of sensitivity to the Spirit there's now scars....
Or, you trust in the "Spirit" and have forgotten, or rejected, that it is scripture that is the final arbiter of faith and practise, not your conscience which is prone to human pride, stubbornness, and selfishness....
Or, you aren't fully converted....
Or, over the period of 50 years you speak of this is the first time you've ever been educated on the subject of the Sabbath and it's a hard pill to swallow. Nevertheless, hard as it may be to humble oneself to confess 50 years of ignorance and superstition, the Sabbath is truly the Lord's day... It's the 4th Commandment... And nowhere does scripture attest to the holiness of the day being removed to suit the vagaries and lower expectations of modern man.

 

[savedbygrace1]

You seem to believe clean and unclean were designated as such by an arbitrary levite who just wanted to exalt his own power, and it took Jesus and Christianity to set him straight.

Unless of course over a period of 50 years you've hardened your heart at the numerous times your conscience did tell you that there were 10 commandments and not 9, thus indicating you haven't been listening, and instead of sensitivity to the Spirit there's now scars....
Or, you trust in the "Spirit" and have forgotten, or rejected, that it is scripture that is the final arbiter of faith and practise, not your conscience which is prone to human pride, stubbornness, and selfishness....
Or, you aren't fully converted....
Or, over the period of 50 years you speak of this is the first time you've ever been educated on the subject of the Sabbath and it's a hard pill to swallow. Nevertheless, hard as it may be to humble oneself to confess 50 years of ignorance and superstition, the Sabbath is truly the Lord's day... It's the 4th Commandment... And nowhere does scripture attest to the holiness of the day being removed to suit the vagaries and lower expectations of modern man.

I wouldn't say my heart is hardened, I am acutely aware of my failings concerning the law relating to the inner man for instance, the law no one but you and God need know you break. If you want to claim to obey the ten commandments you must obey that law too. In my experience, people who most insist you must obey the ten commandments do not understand what obeying those laws demand, they often appear not to have a consciousness of sin they ought to have, I would think that speaks far more of a hardened heart

 

[Brakelite]

I wouldn't say my heart is hardened, I am acutely aware of my failings concerning the law relating to the inner man for instance, the law no one but you and God need know you break. If you want to claim to obey the ten commandments you must obey that law too. In my experience, people who most insist you must obey the ten commandments do not understand what obeying those laws demand, they often appear not to have a consciousness of sin they ought to have, I would think that speaks far more of a hardened heart

You and your friends are the ones arguing against obedience to God's commandments. I'm not holding myself up as a paragon of virtue, simply starting what's written in the scriptures. The law written on Paul's heart for example, which he said was the same as that on stone, and those of other first century Christians, clearly included the 4th. Can you imagine the debate and cancel culture that would have erupted among the Pharisees and Jewish legalists of the Christian church suddenly all ignored the Sabbath and observed Sunday instead? Didn't happen though did it. The debates centered around circumcision. Not the Sabbath.
The Catholic Church itself testifies as to the source of Sunday sacredness. Officially the council of Laodicea in the 4th century. Although history attests to it's acceptance and popularity a little earlier than that, but that's another story. None of which justified any of it of course. Can you imagine the audacity of any man taking upon himself to cancel a Commandment that stood codified for the previous couple of millennia, but was sanctified 2 millennia before that? Brave man I would say. Brave man who would try to justify that change today when there is nothing in scripture to support it.

 

[savedbygrace1]

You and your friends are the ones arguing against obedience to God's commandments. I'm not holding myself up as a paragon of virtue, simply starting what's written in the scriptures. The law written on Paul's heart for example, which he said was the same as that on stone, and those of other first century Christians, clearly included the 4th. Can you imagine the debate and cancel culture that would have erupted among the Pharisees and Jewish legalists of the Christian church suddenly all ignored the Sabbath and observed Sunday instead? Didn't happen though did it. The debates centered around circumcision. Not the Sabbath.
The Catholic Church itself testifies as to the source of Sunday sacredness. Officially the council of Laodicea in the 4th century. Although history attests to it's acceptance and popularity a little earlier than that, but that's another story. None of which justified any of it of course. Can you imagine the audacity of any man taking upon himself to cancel a Commandment that stood codified for the previous couple of millennia, but was sanctified 2 millennia before that? Brave man I would say. Brave man who would try to justify that change today when there is nothing in scripture to support it.

I hope you are as concerned in obedience to the law relating to the inner man, the law no one but you and God need know you break, as you are to observe a set saturday sabbath. For that is part of the ten commandments too!

 

[Brakelite]

I hope you are as concerned in obedience to the law relating to the inner man, the law no one but you and God need know you break, as you are to observe a set saturday sabbath. For that is part of the ten commandments too!

Has there been anything I've said which would indicate that? For example, pride in Sabbath keeping or lust of the flesh and/or covetousness as examples?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I believe "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" was proven to exist at the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve were evicted for making Satan their god. Same for murder with Cain. Same for theft with Rachel. Same for adultery with Joseph and Potiphar's wife.

The Ten Commandments did not begin to exist at Sinai, but were "codified" at Sinai. Codify is a word that is not known by many but should known by all.

You need to update it to me sir as I have no idea what you mean by Codify