Carnal Hypocrisy of Sabbath Commanders

[Brakelite]

1. I never read of them ever speaking of worshipping God, and if so, never in Spirit and in truth

That is pure and simple scandal mongering and false representation, and unworthy of an answer.

I have reported you for a personal attack

Regardless your reporting, I stand by my initial assessment.

 

[Brakelite]

I have reported you for a personal attack. If you have no answer, then just move on. Do not accuse me of attacking others.

Keep it professional and respond to the details of what is posted only. If you can prove anything false, they I will gladly take the correction.

I see worship not so much as something we do, although that plays a part, but rather as something we are. Not a state of doing, but a state of being, and it is what we are that motivates what we do.There are secular people in the world who wouldn’t dream of breaking God’s commandments. While they might not keep them all, there are certainly some who would find utterly repugnant that they should cheat on their wife or husband, nor even consider looking upon any other to lust after them.
There are others who are meticulous in honesty, they would never lie , cheat on their taxes, nor steal form anyone.
There are others who are so content with their lives that covetousness may as well be a foreign language.
And there are still others who may do all of the above and also dote on their parents and love and care for them right up to the grave.
Yet none of this could be construed as worship. Obedience yes, but our righteousness is as filthy rags.
There are church-going people who sing hymns. Yet they then go home and beat their wives and watch pornography on television.
There are still others who ‘religiously’ attend church every week but live the rest of the week pursuing money, fame, and reputation at the expense of others. There are even some who attend church every week because it benefits them to have the contacts for sales and business. None of this could be considered in any sense worship.
Worship is a surrendered life. Worship is a recognition that God is alone worthy to rule and reign in the life. Worship is a state of being where one is completely submitted to the Holy Spirit. Where the Holy Spirit fills the person to the extent that one’s very nature is changed , sometimes radically. Worship is a state of being where one’s will becomes one with the will of God. A state of being where one hates the things God hates, and loves the things God loves. A state of being where one is conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, identical in character, identical in motives, identical in hope and faith and love. A state of being where self is completely swallowed up in Christ. Then, and only then, everything we do, even our secular labour, is infused with the love of God, both for Him and others. Everything we do is then an expression of the overflowing love of God and can be used of Him as a vehicle for the sharing of the gospel and for providing for the needs of others.

The concordance in both the Greek and Hebrew reveals the word worship means to prostrate oneself, to crouch down even face down upon the earth before God. That is the outward physical expression of the inner spiritual submission and surrender that is required …. when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. I find the modern so-called "Christian" rock concerts that are so much a part of so many churches worship services highly disrespectful.


So why do we worship God and not something, or someone else? Because of who He is. The Creator of heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them is worthy. He who created all things, became a man and died on behalf of mankind is Lord of Lords and deserves the fidelity and love of all His creation. Greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for a friend. There is a greater love however, and that is the love that motivated Jesus to lay down His life even for His enemies. Laying down our lives for our Creator is the very least we can do.
Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

What many don't fully appreciate is the heart of God in establishing Israel as a nation in the first place. It wasn't done so that Israel could become the insular selfish nation it became. The whole purpose of establishing Israel was the same for establishing the church. To be a light and an example. To share the reality of a true all-powerful all-loving gracious merciful God with the world. To be a testimony against the errors of paganism and a teacher and guide to the true God. So when God gave Israel the ten commandments, it wasn't just for them. When God established the sanctuary and the associated laws and feast days and sacrifices, this was to bring Israel into closer harmony with their God, to create within them a passion for truth and righteousness and a love for God and neighbor. Sadly, it became nothing more that a get out of jail free card for themselves. They completely forgot, despite numerous reminders of God's care and desire for the nations round about, that they were there to share... Not to keep wrapped up for themselves.
That goes for the Sabbath particularly. God didn't just care that one small group of people rest every seventh day. He cared for all people and wanted all people to benefit from His goodness and presence. Hence strangers were always promised the same privileges as Israel. Hence the gentile nations became recipients of the gospel. Hence why the Sabbath is a day of the Lord gifted to benefit all men everywhere. It isn't up to the church, or anyone else, to change that. Hence why it's important for Sabbath keepers to share these truths with everyone and not be as Israel and keep it to ourselves.

 

[Brakelite]

It's a study in hypocrisy of false commandments of men.

Aaaah. So you are referring maybe to Sunday as a sacred day as a false Commandment of men and the hypocrisy of those who deny how it obscures and replaces a Commandment of God?

 

[Phoneman777]

If you are sda, you believe the levitical unclean foods must be avoided don't you. Do you believe gentiles were given a licence to sin in this regard?

The concept of "clean/unclean" - like adultery and murder, predates and exceeds the duration of the Mosaic Law which ran from Sinai to Calvary:

• Noah knew the difference.
• Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV says those who are eating pigs and mice at the time of Jesus' glorious, fiery Second Coming will be "consumed together".
• Acts 10 showed Peter that, not animals, but Gentiles are no longer to be called "unclean" - pigs will be unclean up until Jesus' glorious, fiery return.
• Not to mention science now proves how harmful it is to consume unclean meat.
• Did I mention Isaiah 66 says at the time of Jesus' fiery return, those who are caught "eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse shall be consumed together"?

Specifically to observe a set saturday sabbath would have had to be made plain also, it was not

Hebrews 4:9 Lamsa's Peshitta says, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". The KJV ought be translated "Sabbath" also, but after over 1,000 years of Papal supremacy and the exaltation of Satan's "venerable day of the SUN, it's understandable why they chose the innocuous "rest" instead. The Greek word, "Sabbatismos", as well as the word in the Peshitta, both mean "Sabbath" aka the "weekly Sabbath".

 

[savedbygrace1]

The concept of "clean/unclean" - like adultery and murder, predates and exceeds the duration of the Mosaic Law which ran from Sinai to Calvary:

• Noah knew the difference.
• Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV says those who are eating pigs and mice at the time of Jesus' glorious, fiery Second Coming will be "consumed together".
• Acts 10 showed Peter that, not animals, but Gentiles are no longer to be called "unclean" - pigs will be unclean up until Jesus' glorious, fiery return.
• Not to mention science now proves how harmful it is to consume unclean meat.
• Did I mention Isaiah 66 says at the time of Jesus' fiery return, those who are caught "eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse shall be consumed together"?

Hebrews 4:9 Lamsa's Peshitta says, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". The KJV ought be translated "Sabbath" also, but after over 1,000 years of Papal supremacy and the exaltation of Satan's "venerable day of the SUN, it's understandable why they chose the innocuous "rest" instead. The Greek word, "Sabbatismos", as well as the word in the Peshitta, both mean "Sabbath" aka the "weekly Sabbath".

But clean/unclean foods is part of the mosaic law, and gentile converts were not asked to follow it. Therefore, if it is obligatory, the first century church must have given gentile converts a licence to sin for the whole of their lives

 

[Phoneman777]

But clean/unclean foods is part of the mosaic law, and gentile converts were not asked to follow it. Therefore, if it is obligatory, the first century church must have given gentile converts a licence to sin for the whole of their lives

Did you miss the part where Isaiah says at the time of the Second Coming, anyone eating unclean animals will be destroyed? Surely, "but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God" applies here, right?
Are we going to allow Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV to have its impact on our doctrine or not? I became an SDA because I got tired of pastors telling me to ignore certain passages or twisting them into the opposite of what they teach. What say you about what Isaiah says?

 

[savedbygrace1]

The concept of "clean/unclean" - like adultery and murder, predates and exceeds the duration of the Mosaic Law which ran from Sinai to Calvary:

• Noah knew the difference.
• Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV says those who are eating pigs and mice at the time of Jesus' glorious, fiery Second Coming will be "consumed together".
• Acts 10 showed Peter that, not animals, but Gentiles are no longer to be called "unclean" - pigs will be unclean up until Jesus' glorious, fiery return.
• Not to mention science now proves how harmful it is to consume unclean meat.
• Did I mention Isaiah 66 says at the time of Jesus' fiery return, those who are caught "eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse shall be consumed together"?

Hebrews 4:9 Lamsa's Peshitta says, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". The KJV ought be translated "Sabbath" also, but after over 1,000 years of Papal supremacy and the exaltation of Satan's "venerable day of the SUN, it's understandable why they chose the innocuous "rest" instead. The Greek word, "Sabbatismos", as well as the word in the Peshitta, both mean "Sabbath" aka the "weekly Sabbath".

You seem to be ignoring the fact, that if it is obligatory for gentiles to avoid the levitical unclean foods, the new testement church, including Paul and Christs original disciples must have given gentile converts a licence to sin. For that is part of the mosaic law, and in Acts 15 they met to specifically decide which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow. Do you think they were not aware of what was written in Isaiah when they made their decision?

 

[Phoneman777]

Regardless your reporting, I stand by my initial assessment.

An enemy of Christ said my arguments seemed to him that I had homosexual tendencies, so I responded by saying he was only trying to convince me that I was gay so that he could proposition me...I got reported and suspended.

It's children like that who have no business climbing on to a Bible discussion website because when confronted with irrefutable arguments, their unconverted, carnal nature compels them to attack rather than reason out their Cognitive Dissonance.

 

[Phoneman777]

You seem to be ignoring the fact, that if it is obligatory for gentiles to avoid the levitical unclean foods, the new testement church, including Paul and Christs original disciples must have given gentile converts a licence to sin. For that is part of the mosaic law, and in Acts 15 they met to specifically decide which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow. Do you think they were not aware of what was written in Isaiah when they made their decision?

Of course Paul was aware of the prophecy of Isaiah, which is why you won't find anyplace where Paul or any other disciples tell anyone it was OK to eat unclean foods or break the Sabbath or that Sabbath was now Sunday.

You keep arguing the counsel in Acts which dealt with the Mosaic Law has to do with the Sabbath and clean/unclean which predate and exceed the expiration of the Mosaic Law. Are you going to simply ignore what I've shown you about this? That the Sabbath goes back to the Garden and Isaiah's warning to those who are found eating unclean things at Christ's return?

 

[savedbygrace1]

Where did Paul or any other disciples tell anyone it was OK to eat unclean foods or break the Sabbath or that Sabbath was now Sunday?

You keep arguing the counsel in Acts which dealt with the Mosaic Law has to do with the Sabbath and clean/unclean which predate and exceed the expiration of the Mosaic Law. Are you going to simply ignore what I've shown you about this? That the Sabbath goes back to the Garden and Isaiah's warning to those who are found eating unclean things at Christ's return?

It doesnt matter if clean/unclean foods predated the mosaic law or not, those laws were part of the Mosaic law as you well know. And at the council of Jerusalem, gentiles were never asked to follow them. I was never under the old covenant, but the new one. And I am quite happy to accept what the new testement church wrote on the subject

 

[savedbygrace1]

Under the new covenant the law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Therefore, you must have heartfelt conviction of sin when you fail to follow applicable law written in your mind and placed on your heart under the new covenant. That is a spiritual fact. Therefore, for people who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath, or failing to avoid the Levitical unclean foods there can only be two possibilities. Either those specific laws are not written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers, or such people cannot be in a saved state if they are. Yet, sda accepts such people as Christians.

 

[Phoneman777]

It doesnt matter if clean/unclean foods predated the mosaic law or not, those laws were part of the Mosaic law as you well know. And at the council of Jerusalem, gentiles were never asked to follow them. I was never under the old covenant, but the new one. And I am quite happy to accept what the new testement church wrote on the subject

The Old Covenant is not the Law of Moses. Let's prove that by substituting "Mosaic Law" with "Old Covenant":

"Do we make void the Old Covenant through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the Old Covenant". Romans 3:31 KJV.

See? If the "law" meant "Old Covenant" then New Testament Christians are to establish the Old Covenant, which is ludicrous.

 

[savedbygrace1]

The Old Covenant is not the Law of Moses. Let's prove that by substituting "Mosaic Law" with "Old Covenant":

"Do we make void the Old Covenant through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the Old Covenant". Romans 3:31 KJV.

See? If the "law" meant "Old Covenant" then New Testament Christians are to establish the Old Covenant, which is ludicrous.

The old covenant is the law handed down at Sanai

 

[Phoneman777]

Under the new covenant the law God desires you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4ten

"I will put My laws in their mind and in their hearts will I write them." Hebrews 8:10 KJV
God's Ten Commandments are written on the heart of every New Covenant Christian.

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

And through Christ we can overcome every sin (Philippians 4:13 KJV)

Therefore, you must have heartfelt conviction of sin when you fail to follow applicable law written in your mind and placed on your heart under the new covenant. That is a spiritual fact. Therefore, for people who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath, or failing to avoid the Levitical unclean foods there can only be two possibilities. Either those specific laws are not written in the minds and placed on the hearts of believers, or such people cannot be in a saved state if they are. Yet, sda accepts such people as Christians.

Of course people who are not under conviction are held blameless before God, according to Acts 17:30 KJV, but since the issue of God's law has end times implication and will take center stage, it's incumbent upon us to spread the light of truth amidst the darkness of satanic lies :)

 

[savedbygrace1]

"I will put My laws in their mind and in their hearts will I write them." Hebrews 8:10 KJV
God's Ten Commandments are written on the heart of every New Covenant Christian.
And through Christ we can overcome every sin (Philippians 4:13 KJV)
Of course people who are not under conviction are held blameless before God, according to Acts 17:30 KJV, but since the issue of God's law has end times implication and will take center stage, it's incumbent upon us to spread the light of truth amidst the darkness of satanic lies :)

If a new covenant christian has the fourth commandment, as written in their heart and mind, they MUST be conscious of sin if they fail to follow it for:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Through the law we become conscious of sin

It is over five decades since I responded to an altar call. I have had much heartfelt conviction of sin, but never had the slightest hint of consciousness of sin by failing to follow a set saturday sabbath

 

[Phoneman777]

The old covenant is the law handed down at Sanai

If the Old Covenant is the Mosaic Law as you say it is, repeat after me:

"Do we make void the Old Covenant through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the Old Covenant".

Now, please tell me as a Christian how to go about establishing the Old Covenant, because I'm not sure how it's done.

 

[Phoneman777]

If a new covenant christian has the fourth commandment, as written in their heart and mind, they MUST be conscious of sin if they fail to follow it for:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Through the law we become conscious of sin

It is over five decades sinj#ce I responded to an altar call. I have had much heartfelt conviction of sin, but never had the slightest hint of consciousness of sin by failing to follow a set saturday sabbath

If a person rejects the Ten Commandments, then the New Covenant is not written on their heart (at least not fully) and they need to repent because the only ones who get to eat of the Tree of Life are those who "do His commandments" (Revelation 22:14 KJV).

 

[savedbygrace1]

If the Old Covenant is the Mosaic Law as you say it is, repeat after me:

"Do we make void the Old Covenant through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the Old Covenant".

Now, please tell me as a Christian how to go about establishing the Old Covenant, because I'm not sure how it's done.

Best not to take one verse of scripture in isolation, that brings many errors. In the preceeding ten verses, Paul had stated no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by obeying the law, the christian has righteousness apart from law, the believer is justified apart from works of the law. What would many of his readers have thought? ''If we have no righteousness of obeying the law we can act as we like and ignore the law of God'' hence verse31

 

[savedbygrace1]

If a person rejects the Ten Commandments, then the New Covenant is not written on their heart (at least not fully) and they need to repent because the only ones who get to eat of the Tree of Life are those who "do His commandments" (Revelation 22:14 KJV).

God does not partially write the law in your mind and place it on your heart He desires you to follow, you get it all! So if you understand that, and if you understand the biblical definition of sin, and accept through the law we become conscious of sin, how can your church accept people as christians who have no consciousness of sin at failing to observe a set saturday sabbath?

 

[Phoneman777]

Best not to take one verse of scripture in isolation, that brings many errors.

No, hold on, Kimasabe, YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS: you need to explain this confusion that erupts when you make the Old Covenant equal Mosaic Law.

In the preceeding ten verses, Paul had stated no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by obeying the law, the christian has righteousness apart from law, the believer is justified apart from works. What would many of his readers have thought? ''If we have no righteousness of obeying the law we can act as we like and ignore the law of God'' hence verse31

No one is arguing our righteousness comes from obedience to the law, so that's that.

Now, you've got two choices: either explain this confusion which erupts in Romans 3:31 KJV from your making Mosiac Law equal Old Covenant or retract the statement. You don't get to make such bold assertions then gloss over them when confronted with a challenge to them and expect that people will continue a dialogue.