Catholics; Do You Believe This?

[Taken]

The blind leading the BLINDER . . .

The fact is, my woefully-ignorant friend,

It apparently stokes your ego to begin posts with personal derogatory statements. We all notice your usual habit, which by the way, is not a flattering reflection on you.

I am neither blind, ignorant or your friend.

Scripture DOESN’T teach that we are to adhere to Scripture ALONE.

Scripture itself DOES Teach the BENEFITS of Scripture, FOR Teachers and FOR People in general.

If via your FREEWILL, you choose Other Writings outside of Scripture;
* to seek KNOWLEDGE of men About Scripture,
* or KNOWLEDGE of mens Opinions About the KNOWLEDGE contained IN Scripture....

THAT ^ is your purgative.

That is a man-made precept, invented by your Protestant Fathers in the 16th century.

LOL...No one Invented Using, Relying, Trusting Scripture.

What Scripture DOES teach – and rather explicitly, I might add – is that Jesus left His Church in charge – to teach ALL nations and to Baptize them (Matt. 28:19-20).

The Church, is not exclusive to men who call themselves Catholic, or buildings men have built and call Catholic.

The Church is expressly Christ Jesus’ Church, as Jesus Himself claimed in his own expressive words....

Matt 16:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

- He said that WHATEVER His CJURCH declared on earth would also be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-19).

Yes...”HIS Church”.
Yes....”Christ Jesus Church” has teachers, preachers, WHO ARE in their Role of Teacher/Preacher, “GUARDIANS” of the Word of God, that they teach and preach ACCORDING TO THE WORD of God!

No...”willy nilly” making up Doctrines outside of Scripture IS NOT the Role of a teacher/preacher Guardian of Gods Word.
Yes...the Apostles were Trusted to teach/preach/ Guard the Word of God.
Yes...Immediately After Peter received his Conversion; He exampled exactly what Binding and Loosing means...that applies to a Converted person.

Acts 2:
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[12] And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
[13] Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
[14] But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the
third hour of the day.
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] —-> Forward Peter repeats Joel’s prophecy.

According to the Word of God...WHAT Peter BOUND UP was mockers who spoke against the Word of God.
According to the Word of God...WHAT Peter LOOSED what the Word of God through the Prophet Joel prophecies.

- He said that whoever listened to or rejected His CHURCH, listened to and rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

Little problem with your Reference ... HIS CHURCH IS HIS.
Your Church is clearly belonging to MEN, who established it, builded it, Declared it’s Name, Appoints it’s father, created it’s own Doctrine, teaches the meaning of it’s own Doctrine, established it’s own king and queen, prays to dead people, teaches their queen was naturally born without sin, the bowing Dow to statues, the teaching Against Biblical reliance, on and on.

- He stated that the Holy Spirit would guide His CHURCH to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

He gave numerous Warnings about FALSE Preachers.
Scripture itself points a man TO SCRIPTURE to verify what they Hear, to expressly know WHO IS a False Preacher.

You and your equally-ignorant friend reject ALL of this, so you reject HIM.

You are a prime example of Scriptural teaching of what NOT to Do.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It apparently stokes your ego to begin posts with personal derogatory statements. We all notice your usual habit, which by the way, is not a flattering reflection on you.
I am neither blind, ignorant or your friend.

This, coming from the SAME person who has continually accused me of lies and “gaslighting” without providing a SHRED of evidence to that effect.

Yeah – you’re one to talk . . .

Scripture itself DOES Teach the BENEFITS of Scripture, FOR Teachers and FOR People in general.

Yup – Scripture teaches the BENEFITS of Scripture.

What it DOESN’T teach is your man-made Protestant precept of Sola Scriptura.
That was an invention of your Protestant Fathers in the 16th centurt . . .

If via your FREEWILL, you choose Other Writings outside of Scripture;
* to seek KNOWEDGE of men About Scripture,

* or KNOWLEDGE of mens Opinions About the KNOWLEDGE contained IN Scripture....
THAT ^ is your purgative.

LOL...No one Invented Using, Relying, Trusting Scripture.

Nope.

What your Protestant Fathers DID invent was Sola Scriptura – the idea that Scripture ALONE is out “SOLE” Authority.

Scripture itself tells us that Christ’s CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Your total ignorance of the very Scriptures that YOU contend to be your “SOLE” Authority is astounding . . .

The Church, is not exclusive to men who call themselves Catholic, or buildings men have built and call Catholic.

The Church is expressly Christ Jesus’ Church, as Jesus Himself claimed in his own expressive words....
Matt 16:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Yes...”HIS Church”.

Yes....”Christ Jesus Church” has teachers, preachers, WHO ARE in their Role of Teacher/Preacher, “GUARDIANS” of the Word of God, that they teach and preach ACCORDING TO THE WORD of God!
No...”willy nilly” making up Doctrines outside of Scripture IS NOT the Role of a teacher/preacher Guardian of Gods Word.

Yes...the Apostles were Trusted to teach/preach/ Guard the Word of God.

Yes...Immediately After Peter received his Conversion; He exampled exactly what Binding and Loosing means...that applies to a Converted person.
Acts 2:
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[12] And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
[13] Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
[14] But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[15] For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the
third hour of the day.
[16] But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
[17] —-> Forwa Peter repeats Joel’s prophecy.
According to the Word of God...WHAT Peter BOUND UP was mockers who spoke against the Word of God.

According to the Word of God...WHAT Peter LOOSED what the Word of God through the Prophet Joel prophecies.
Little problem with your Reference ... HIS CHURCH IS HIS.

Your Church is clearly belonging to MEN, who established it, builded it, Declared it’s Name, Appoints it’s father, created it’s own Doctrine, teaches the meaning of it’s own Doctrine, established it’s own king and queen, prays to dead people, teaches their queen was naturally born without sin, the bowing Dow to statues, the teaching Against Biblical reliance, on and on.
He gave numerous Warnings about FALSE Preachers.

Scripture itself points a man TO SCRIPTURE to verify what they Hear, to expressly know WHO IS a False Preacher.
You are a prime example of Scriptural teaching of what NOT to Do.

And there you go again ignoring and rejecting The Word of God.

Paul, under the influence of the Holy Spirit wrote:
2 Thess. 2:15
Therefore brethren, stand firn and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us.”

ALL of your long-winded responses amount to the SAME thing:
Arrogance, based on a total ignorance of Scripture and history . . .

 

[Illuminator]

I think the underlying problem is...basically two-fold.
* The Weight given extra Biblical teaching, being equaled to Scripture.

A lie.

* The “BOOK”, Catechism, that teaches a mans understanding of Biblical Script.

Another lie.

Fact is: Scripture Never directs a man to rely on, extra Biblical teaching.

Fact is: Jesus founded a teaching Church.

Fact is: Understanding of Gods Word, is given “individuals” via Gods Himself.

Fact is: "individualism" destroys any hope for Protestant unity.

 

[Jim B]

This, coming from the SAME person who has continually accused me of lies and “gaslighting” without providing a SHRED of evidence to that effect.

Yeah – you’re one to talk . . .

Yup – Scripture teaches the BENEFITS of Scripture.

What it DOESN’T teach is your man-made Protestant precept of Sola Scriptura.
That was an invention of your Protestant Fathers in the 16th centurt . . .

Nope.

What your Protestant Fathers DID invent was Sola Scriptura – the idea that Scripture ALONE is out “SOLE” Authority.

Scripture itself tells us that Christ’s CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Your total ignorance of the very Scriptures that YOU contend to be your “SOLE” Authority is astounding . . .

And there you go again ignoring and rejecting The Word of God.

Paul, under the influence of the Holy Spirit wrote:
2 Thess. 2:15
Therefore brethren, stand firn and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us.”

ALL of your long-winded responses amount to the SAME thing:
Arrogance, based on a total ignorance of Scripture and history . . .

You go on and on opposing sola scriptura and then use scripture to prove your points.

You believe the teachings of men, whether or not they agree with the Bible. That is the problem with Catholicism: it is a man-made religion. Thank God that he used Martin Luther and others to return His people to the truth of the Bible!

 

[Taken]

Fact is: Jesus founded a teaching Church.

Not a newsflash!
Also not a newsflash, TEACH according to Gods Word!

Fact is: "individualism" destroys any hope for Protestant unity.

Fact is: everyone IS an “individual”!
Fact is: God doesn’t care what title a person wears...God cares about an individual being “united with Him”!

 

[Taken]

You go on and on opposing sola scriptura and then use scripture to prove your points.

 

[Jim B]

A lie.
Another lie.
Fact is: Jesus founded a teaching Church.

Fact is: "individualism" destroys any hope for Protestant unity.

There have always been disagreements in the church. 1 Corinthians 1:12-13, "Now I mean this, that each of you is saying, “I am with Paul,” or “I am with Apollos,” or “I am with Cephas,” or “I am with Christ.” Is Christ divided? Paul wasn’t crucified for you, was he? Or were you in fact baptized in the name of Paul?". Also, the beginning of Revelation describes the differences between several churches.

What is so desirable about Protestant unity? We're not a collection of people who follow our clergy no matter what.

It's only Catholics who believe in neo-legalism: what the Pope teaches isn't to be questioned. That is unScriptural.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You go on and on opposing sola scriptura and then use scripture to prove your points.

I use Scripture to debunk a patently UNSCRIPTURAL invention.

If I didn’t – I wouldn’t have a case against followers of this FALSE doctrine.

You believe the teachings of men, whether or not they agree with the Bible. That is the problem with Catholicism: it is a man-made religion.

You talk about the “teachings of men” – yet you adhere to man-made FAIRY TALES like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
Unbelievable . . .

YOU are so ignorant of Scripture that you don’t understand that Jesus and His Church are ONE. He identified His very SELF with His Church when Saul asked Him who He was (Acts 9:3-4).

His Church is NOT a disjointed gaggle of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal Biblical interpretations of each of their HUMAN founders.

Thank God that he used Martin Luther and others to return His people to the truth of the Bible!

Martin Luther was a narcissist who, if he had it HIS way, would have made YOUR Bible a LOT thinner than it already is.

Had it not been for the pleading of his contemporaries – men like Philip Melanchton – he would have REMOVED the Books of James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation.
Suffering from the same blindness as Luther – I wouldn’t expect you to know about – or even understand these historical facts.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Illuminator]

There have always been disagreements in the church. 1 Corinthians 1:12-13, "Now I mean this, that each of you is saying, “I am with Paul,” or “I am with Apollos,” or “I am with Cephas,” or “I am with Christ.” Is Christ divided? Paul wasn’t crucified for you, was he? Or were you in fact baptized in the name of Paul?". Also, the beginning of Revelation describes the differences between several churches.

What is so desirable about Protestant unity? We're not a collection of people who follow our clergy no matter what.

It's only Catholics who believe in neo-legalism: what the Pope teaches isn't to be questioned. That is unScriptural.

Your dominating dictator view of the papacy is far removed from reality. Catholics are free to disagree with the Pope or the clergy; we are not free to rebel. The CC is not your enemy, but you won't have it any other way.

 

[Marymog]

You go on and on opposing sola scriptura and then use scripture to prove your points.

You believe the teachings of men, whether or not they agree with the Bible. That is the problem with Catholicism: it is a man-made religion. Thank God that he used Martin Luther and others to return His people to the truth of the Bible!

Martin Luther returned His people to the truth of the Bible?

So you agree with Luther's teachings on the Eucharist, Baptism and the teachings of Mary being ever virgin?

 

[Jim B]

Martin Luther returned His people to the truth of the Bible?

So you agree with Luther's teachings on the Eucharist, Baptism and the teachings of Mary being ever virgin?

Yes, Martin Luther did return people to believing the truth of the Bible. He taught them to rely on God's written word instead of the fallible teachings and abhorrent practices of the Catholic denomination.

Do I believe that he was infallible? No. Do I believe in the basic principles of Protestantism? Yes.

Believe what you want. I believe God's word -- the Bible -- not the teachings of fallible men. Sola scriptura.

P.S. Your "signature" about the "body" and "blood" shows where you're coming from. The "body" and "blood" are symbolic only; in reality they are bread and wine.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, Martin Luther did return people to believing the truth of the Bible. He taught them to rely on God's written word instead of the fallible teachings and abhorrent practices of the Catholic denomination.

Do I believe that he was infallible? No. Do I believe in the basic principles of Protestantism? Yes.

Believe what you want. I believe God's word -- the Bible -- not the teachings of fallible men. Sola scriptura.

P.S. Your "signature" about the "body" and "blood" shows where you're coming from. The "body" and "blood" are symbolic only; in reality they are bread and wine.

Let's try this again Jim B:

Do you agree with Luther's teachings on the Eucharist, Baptism and the teachings of Mary being ever virgin?

 

[Jim B]

Let's try this again Jim B:

Do you agree with Luther's teachings on the Eucharist, Baptism and the teachings of Mary being ever virgin?

I answered as I saw fit. If you don't like my response, I don't care.

 

[Marymog]

I answered as I saw fit. If you don't like my response, I don't care.

Well, the first word in your response was "Yes"! So I see fit to believe that you do agree with Luther's teaching on the Eucharist, Baptism and Mary.

With that said....you are almost Catholic!

 

[Marymog]

P.S. Your "signature" about the "body" and "blood" shows where you're coming from. The "body" and "blood" are symbolic only; in reality they are bread and wine.

Why do you disagree with Paul?

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

And Jesus_O "this IS my body/blood"


Are you bringing "damnation" to yourself by disagree with them Jim? ;)

 

[Jim B]

Well, the first word in your response was "Yes"! So I see fit to believe that you do agree with Luther's teaching on the Eucharist, Baptism and Mary.

With that said....you are almost Catholic!

Are you just here to play games and/or distort the words of others?

Here is what I wrote: "Yes, Martin Luther did return people to believing the truth of the Bible. He taught them to rely on God's written word instead of the fallible teachings and abhorrent practices of the Catholic denomination."

Does your Catholicism teach you to be dishonest?

 

[Jim B]

Why do you disagree with Paul?

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

And Jesus_O "this IS my body/blood"


Are you bringing "damnation" to yourself by disagree with them Jim? ;)

Jesus (in the flesh) was reclining at a table with His disciples. He gave them some of the unleavened bread to share and said "this is my body". He then passed around a goblet of wine and said "this is my blood". So tell me, how can Jesus, physically alive and present, mean that the bread and wine were literally His body and blood? The meaning is clear: they were (and are) symbolic.

I don't add any weird interpretations to the Bible. Jesus' body is not bread and His blood is not wine. If you think that they are you have a very strange interpretation of whom Jesus actually was! He was fully human, walked around, spoke, ate, slept, prayed, wept, etc.

You might be bringing damnation to yourself by reducing the Lord to food!

 

[Taken]

Your dominating dictator view of the papacy is far removed from reality. Catholics are free to disagree with the Pope or the clergy; we are not free to rebel. The CC is not your enemy, but you won't have it any other way.

Inanutshell sounds as if;
Catholics are free to disagree privately...
Catholics are not free to disagree publicly...

Catholic men are not my enemy.
The Catholic Church is not my enemy.
The Doctrine of the Catholic Church is broadly my adversary.

 

[Marymog]

Are you just here to play games and/or distort the words of others?

Here is what I wrote: "Yes, Martin Luther did return people to believing the truth of the Bible. He taught them to rely on God's written word instead of the fallible teachings and abhorrent practices of the Catholic denomination."

Does your Catholicism teach you to be dishonest?

Not playing games Jim B. I asked you a very direct question and you didn't give a very direct answer. Instead you are playing a word game with me. I am trying to figure out your cryptic answer. Apparently I did not do a very good job at it.

Sooooooooo You believe that Luther returned people to the truth of the bible by teaching them to rely on God's written word instead of relying on what The Church was teaching them. Let's put your theory that some man taught you to the logical test:

Before Luther The Church convinced everyone they were teaching the Truth. For 1,500 years everyone gobbled up that truth and didn't (in general) question it.

About 1,500 years after the death of Christ God got tired of everyone being taught one truth taught by one Church so he sent Luther as a savior to all Christians. Luther taught everyone that they can read Scripture on their own and figure out the Truth on their own. The people no longer had to rely on The Church to figure Scripture out.

Fast forward 500 years and we now have hundreds of doctrinal truths, instead of One, coming from thousands of Churches instead of coming from ONE Church. Christians went from ONE teaching with ONE truth to multiple truths!

Now this is the same Luther that wanted to remove books from the bible that you quote from Jim B and the same Luther that complained when other men started denying HIS truth and those men broke away from him because they believed he was wrong about the Truth. This is the Luther you are praising? The man who divided Christianity from ONE Church and ONE Truth into multiple churches and multiple truths?

Hmmmm......

 

[Jim B]

Not playing games Jim B. I asked you a very direct question and you didn't give a very direct answer. Instead you are playing a word game with me. I am trying to figure out your cryptic answer. Apparently I did not do a very good job at it.

Sooooooooo You believe that Luther returned people to the truth of the bible by teaching them to rely on God's written word instead of relying on what The Church was teaching them. Let's put your theory that some man taught you to the logical test:

Before Luther The Church convinced everyone they were teaching the Truth. For 1,500 years everyone gobbled up that truth and didn't (in general) question it.

About 1,500 years after the death of Christ God got tired of everyone being taught one truth taught by one Church so he sent Luther as a savior to all Christians. Luther taught everyone that they can read Scripture on their own and figure out the Truth on their own. The people no longer had to rely on The Church to figure Scripture out.

Fast forward 500 years and we now have hundreds of doctrinal truths, instead of One, coming from thousands of Churches instead of coming from ONE Church. Christians went from ONE teaching with ONE truth to multiple truths!

Now this is the same Luther that wanted to remove books from the bible that you quote from Jim B and the same Luther that complained when other men started denying HIS truth and those men broke away from him because they believed he was wrong about the Truth. This is the Luther you are praising? The man who divided Christianity from ONE Church and ONE Truth into multiple churches and multiple truths?

Hmmmm......

I don't worship Martin Luther; I don't worship any man. However, I regard Martin Luther in the same light as I regard Moses. Martin Luther rescued Christianity from the corrupt Catholic denomination by returning the people to the word of God in the same way that Moses gave the people the word of God, even though they were clearly into false religion.

It's not my problem that your denomination has created a "golden calf" of idolatry, departing so much from the truth of God's word that it is almost entirely lost. You believe the doctrines of men; I believe the truth of God.

Do you think that the many offenses committed by your denomination: the crusades, the inquisitions, the excommunications of "heretics" like Luther and others, the persecution and wholesale murder of "unbelievers" such as native Americans and others, the disgusting sexual abuse of children, etc., etc., etc. are admirable? Jesus said to love others as yourself, but apparently the papacy has never subscribed to that credo.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life." John 14:6 He didn't say that your denomination is the way, the truth, and the life. That is all that needs to be said.