This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

[face2face]

While you are working that out.

Yahweh the One True God reveals Himself and His name that by His action He will bring Glory (kābôd) to His name as per Isaiah 41:16 & Isaiah 48:11 and not let the people give credit for his works to another false super natural being in the same way as you do to a truine god. If you know the book of Isaiah you will also know the Baal prophets made false claims about Baal's power and people like Rabshakah claimed his false god could give him victory of the Lord's people as per Isaiah 36:18-20. The repeated claim that Yahweh is nothing in Isaiah 40:15-26 is the context to Isaiah 42:8-9 and has nothing at all to do with Him sharing His glory with His Only begotten Son, who to this point doesn't even exist, but is a Son of Promise. By the way, a Son of Promise cannot be by promise if he already exists.:cool:

The question for you both is this...what would God do for a beloved Son who testifies to a God who can do all things? Would such a Son be glorified NOT as God Almighty, but as the Son of God who sits at the right hand on high? Further more what of Christ's disciples who testify to his name? What Glory would they enter into?

Now if you wish to take a verse from Isaiah and twist it to mean something else, which is entirely outside of its intended purpose, by all means go ahead - but know the warnings that apply. Fear if you must. And never forget it was Yahweh's Glory that the Christ entered into, and what the Father has given to the Son is not for clay pots to question.

For now, you are likened to the blind in Isaiah 42, which are yet to have your eyes opened - but by whom is the question?

 

[XFire]

While you are working that out.

Yahweh the One True God reveals Himself and His name that by His action He will bring Glory (kābôd) to His name as per Isaiah 41:16 & Isaiah 48:11 and not let the people give credit for his works to another false super natural being in the same way as you do to a truine god. If you know the book of Isaiah you will also know the Baal prophets made false claims about Baal's power and people like Rabshakah claimed his false god could give him victory of the Lord's people as per Isaiah 36:18-20. The repeated claim that Yahweh is nothing in Isaiah 40:15-26 is the context to Isaiah 42:8-9 and has nothing at all to do with Him sharing His glory with His Only begotten Son, who to this point doesn't even exist, but is a Son of Promise. By the way, a Son of Promise cannot be by promise if he already exists.:cool:

The question for you both is this...what would God do for a beloved Son who testifies to a God who can do all things? Would such a Son be glorified NOT as God Almighty, but as the Son of God who sits at the right hand on high? Further more what of Christ's disciples who testify to his name? What Glory would they enter into?

Now if you wish to take a verse from Isaiah and twist it to mean something else, which is entirely outside of its intended purpose, by all means go ahead - but know the warnings that apply. Fear if you must. And never forget it was Yahweh's Glory that the Christ entered into, and what the Father has given to the Son is not for clay pots to question.

For now, you are likened to the blind in Isaiah 42, which are yet to have your eyes opened - but by whom is the question?

And check out Isaiah 45.11 again just as in rev 3 14 Jesus states he has a maker

 

[face2face]

And check out Isaiah 45.11 again just as in rev 3 14 Jesus states he has a maker

Good pick up Xfire!

 

[Taken]

Context to Isaiah 42:8 is idolatry - no amount of copy and pasting will change that.

Irrational claim.

 

[Taken]

Dont you know the Christ received an inheritance?
You cant inherit something if its already in your possession - dont you believe Christ is God? How so an inheritance?

You avoided answering the questions. Post # 357
There was NO question about inheritance.

 

[Taken]

@Taken @Johann

Lets dig a little deeper into Isaiah 42 shall we?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:6-7 ?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:8-9 ?

Expecting two one word answers.

Ya, uh I expected an answer To post # 357. Didn’t happen.

 

[face2face]

Irrational claim.

Avoidance - this happens when a person is "caught out" something @Johann has been honest about to date.

 

[face2face]

Firstborn FROM the Dead?


WHO, is this “HIS”?
WHAT, WHEN, HOW....Did “HIS” death occur?

I overlooked this as being a waste of everyone's time as all know the Christ died and was raised the 3rd day. Do you know what his inheritance was Taken?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I disagree when someone uses the word devine when speaking of Jesus that it can only have one meaning that meaning being "The Only True God." Many people who believe the Word is the Only Begotten Son of God and is devine but don't believe that makes him The True God. The word devine can have the meaning, the True God but the word devine can also mean, a god or godlike.
At the Gospel of Mark 14:61, 62 it says- "But he kept silent and made no reply at all. Again the high priest began to question him and said to him: “Are you the Christ the Son of the Blessed One?” Then Jesus said: “I am; and you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
These scriptures show that the high priest asked him if he was, the Christ the Son of the Blessed One, not if he was, the Blessed One. Jesus said, I am, meaning Jesus was admitting he was the Christ the Son of the Blessed One. So for anyone to use these scriptures to teach that Jesus was saying that he was, the Blessed One, that would be inaccurate.

The phrase right hand of power or to be on a ruler’s right hand meant being second in importance to the ruler himself. (Psalm 110:1; Acts 7:55, 56) The Greek expression for “right hand of power” also occurs in the parallel account at Luke 22:69 but with the addition of the word for “God.” It is rendered “the powerful right hand of God.” The phrase “right hand of power” may also imply that Jesus would be infused with power, or authority, because of being at the right hand of the Powerful One, God.

Jesus is spoken of in the Scriptures as “a god,” even as “Mighty God.” (John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6) But nowhere is he spoken of as being Almighty God, as YHWH God is. (Genesis 17:1) Jesus is said to be “the reflection of God’s glory,” but the Father is the Source of that glory. (Hebrews 1:3) Jesus in no way seeks the position of his Father. He said: “It is YHWH your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Luke 4:8) He exists “in God’s form,” and the Father has commanded that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend,” but this is all done “to the glory of God the Father.”(Philippians. 2:5-11) We have to remember that the Only True God YHWH has “subjected all things under his feet.”But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.(1Corinthians 15:27, 28) Jesus said at Matthew 28:18 “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. These scriptures make it clear that someone who's authority Jesus is subject to has given him the authority that he has. No one has ever given the Only True God YHWH his authority.

 

[face2face]

@BARNEY BRIGHT I am impressed with your understanding of the Scripture. It's rare indeed for this pearl to be expressed in Christian forums these days. Just a shame mainstream believers cant see its shine.

 

[Johann]

Another foolish comment...he doesn't even believe Christ is the Son of God but only a prophet. Wrong again!

Gods Christ IS Gods Glory.

Very good, since it is biblically correct Taken.
These "believers" insist that Christ Jesus is NOT God
J.

 

[Johann]

Context to Isaiah 42:8 is idolatry - no amount of copy and pasting will change that.

Something already EXISTS, BEFORE it can be MADE.
Christ “becoming” MADE, is not Christ being “CREATED”.
Becoming “MADE”, is simply REVEALING “knowledge” that APPLIES to a particular THING.

Something F2F miss, the humanity of Christ and that Christ is God.
Christ BECAME something He was NOT BEFORE, in the LIKENESS of man.
J.

 

[Johann]

Dont you know the Christ received an inheritance?
You cant inherit something if its already in your possession - dont you believe Christ is God? How so an inheritance?

What you are doing is nitpicking, you should really get to know what a 2ndAorist is.
J.

 

[Taken]

I overlooked this
as being a waste of everyone's time ...

Avoidance.

 

[Taken]

Avoidance - this happens when a person is "caught out" something

 

[Johann]

And check out Isaiah 45.11 again just as in rev 3 14 Jesus states he has a maker

His Maker; Israel’s Maker, who not only created him, as I did all others, but made him a new creature, and a peculiar people to myself.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


(iii) As the Revised Standard Version has it, he is the beginning of God's creation. This phrase, as it stands in English, is ambiguous. It could mean, either, that Jesus was the first person to be created or that he began the process of creation, as Trench put it, "dynamically the beginning." It is the second meaning which is intended here.

The connection of the Son with creation is frequently made in the New Testament. John begins his gospel by saying of the Word: "All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made" (Joh_1:3). "In him," says Paul, "all things were created" (Col_1:15; Col_1:18). The insistence on the Son's part in creation was due to the heretics who explained sin and disease by saying that the world had been created by a false and inferior god. It is the Christian insistence that this world is God's creation and that its sin and sorrow are not his fault, but are caused by the disobedience of men. As the Christian sees it, the God of creation and the God of redemption are one and the same.

The beginning of the creation of God (hē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou). Not the first of creatures as the Arians held and Unitarians do now, but the originating source of creation through whom God works (Col_1:15, Col_1:18, a passage probably known to the Laodiceans, Joh_1:3; Heb_1:2, as is made clear by Rev_1:18; Rev_2:8; Rev_3:21; Rev_5:13).


beginning of the creation of God — not he whom God created first, but as in Col_1:15-18 (see on Col_1:15-18), the Beginner of all creation, its originating instrument. All creation would not be represented adoring Him, if He were but one of themselves. His being the Creator is a strong guarantee for His faithfulness as “the Witness and Amen.”

Disappointing, XFire and F2F, Arian and Unitarian desperate in their attempt to make the MAKER, Jesus Christ, a CREATURE.

And check out Isaiah 45.11 again just as in rev 3 14 Jesus states he has a maker

What about Isaiah 45?

 

[Johann]

While you are working that out.

Yahweh the One True God reveals Himself and His name that by His action He will bring Glory (kābôd) to His name as per Isaiah 41:16 & Isaiah 48:11 and not let the people give credit for his works to another false super natural being in the same way as you do to a truine god. If you know the book of Isaiah you will also know the Baal prophets made false claims about Baal's power and people like Rabshakah claimed his false god could give him victory of the Lord's people as per Isaiah 36:18-20. The repeated claim that Yahweh is nothing in Isaiah 40:15-26 is the context to Isaiah 42:8-9 and has nothing at all to do with Him sharing His glory with His Only begotten Son, who to this point doesn't even exist, but is a Son of Promise. By the way, a Son of Promise cannot be by promise if he already exists.:cool:

The question for you both is this...what would God do for a beloved Son who testifies to a God who can do all things? Would such a Son be glorified NOT as God Almighty, but as the Son of God who sits at the right hand on high? Further more what of Christ's disciples who testify to his name? What Glory would they enter into?

Now if you wish to take a verse from Isaiah and twist it to mean something else, which is entirely outside of its intended purpose, by all means go ahead - but know the warnings that apply. Fear if you must. And never forget it was Yahweh's Glory that the Christ entered into, and what the Father has given to the Son is not for clay pots to question.

For now, you are likened to the blind in Isaiah 42, which are yet to have your eyes opened - but by whom is the question?

The one her, blind as a bat, is you and and those that hold your doctrines, painfully obvious for all to see..and...

While you are working that out.
Already worked that out, always three steps ahead of you.
J.

 

[face2face]

His Maker; Israel’s Maker, who not only created him, as I did all others, but made him a new creature, and a peculiar people to myself.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


(iii) As the Revised Standard Version has it, he is the beginning of God's creation. This phrase, as it stands in English, is ambiguous. It could mean, either, that Jesus was the first person to be created or that he began the process of creation, as Trench put it, "dynamically the beginning." It is the second meaning which is intended here.

The connection of the Son with creation is frequently made in the New Testament. John begins his gospel by saying of the Word: "All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made" (Joh_1:3). "In him," says Paul, "all things were created" (Col_1:15; Col_1:18). The insistence on the Son's part in creation was due to the heretics who explained sin and disease by saying that the world had been created by a false and inferior god. It is the Christian insistence that this world is God's creation and that its sin and sorrow are not his fault, but are caused by the disobedience of men. As the Christian sees it, the God of creation and the God of redemption are one and the same.

The beginning of the creation of God (hē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou). Not the first of creatures as the Arians held and Unitarians do now, but the originating source of creation through whom God works (Col_1:15, Col_1:18, a passage probably known to the Laodiceans, Joh_1:3; Heb_1:2, as is made clear by Rev_1:18; Rev_2:8; Rev_3:21; Rev_5:13).


beginning of the creation of God — not he whom God created first, but as in Col_1:15-18 (see on Col_1:15-18), the Beginner of all creation, its originating instrument. All creation would not be represented adoring Him, if He were but one of themselves. His being the Creator is a strong guarantee for His faithfulness as “the Witness and Amen.”

Disappointing, XFire and F2F, Arian and Unitarian desperate in their attempt to make the MAKER, Jesus Christ, a CREATURE.



What about Isaiah 45?

Do you have any thoughts of your own Johann? I think this is the third time I've asked you to cease from copy and pasting content into your posts.

 

[face2face]

The one her, blind as a bat, is you and and those that hold your doctrines, painfully obvious for all to see..and...

Your inability to speak personally to the record is obvious for all to see. You have been shown the correct context to Isaiah 42 which Taken misquoted with your support.

Again its typical of forcing trinitarian dogma onto the text, again plain for all to see.

 

[face2face]

@Taken @Johann (no trick here boys...just checking to see if you read your Bibles...no need to copy and paste from your commentaries?)

Lets dig a little deeper into Isaiah 42 shall we?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:6-7 ?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:8-9 ?

Expecting two one word answers.