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Ferris Bueller

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Does not matter, regarding their Salvation, as they are already "one with God", in Christ.
But at the same time you say no Christ rejecter will be in heaven. The inconsistencies and contradictions of your own doctrine all by themselves reveal it to be bunk. Besides not taking the full counsel of the scriptures into consideration and accurately interpreting them as a whole, false doctrines almost always have contradictory beliefs in them.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Once Salvation is applied, then this is proof that the only requirement to receive it has been met.
If you are not presently believing you are not meeting the requirement of present believing to be saved. Believed is not the requirement. Believing is the requirement.
 

Ferris Bueller

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For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:26-31
The key here being "by which he was sanctified". The passage is definitely talking about an unbeliever, a Christ rejecter, but an unbeliever and Christ rejecter who was once made clean by the blood of Jesus. IOW, an ex-believer. Ex-believers go into the lake of fire. They are not saved as Behold claims.
 

Grailhunter

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I just wrote this about you.
And here you are proving it.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:
Lev 4:3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.


2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.


2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;.......Question.
Is that what you advocate?



but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

J.

Can you find one that says you can sin all you want and still go to heaven.
Or that Christ went to the cross so He could promote and religion of sin and evil.
How about one were evil is having a celebration in heaven.
If not I have beat you....because I can produce scriptures that say....if you do this....you are not going to heaven....no ifs ands or buts.

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

No ifs, ands, or buts...in contexts.
 

Grailhunter

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The key here being "by which he was sanctified". The passage is definitely talking about an unbeliever, a Christ rejecter, but an unbeliever and Christ rejecter who was once made clean by the blood of Jesus. IOW, an ex-believer. Ex-believers go into the lake of fire. They are not saved as Behold claims.

We have went through this before....if you find the word unbeliever in there let me know.....
If you find a scripture that states that New Testament scriptures were written to non-Christians and non-believers, let me know. If not there is another explaination.
 
J

Johann

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I'm already there. Everybody who is presently believing is already there in Christ. To remain in Christ the Bible says to LET the word of God remain in you because IF you do you will remain in the Son the Father and the promise of eternal life (1 John 2:24-25).
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

You say present believing, which is correct , of course, however in these two verses...

Let abide in you (en humin menetō). Present active imperative of menō, to remain. Do not be carried away by the new-fangled Gnostic teaching.


1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.


Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.


Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

J.
 
J

Johann

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For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:26-31
So you decided to stop sinning since it is a fearful thang/fang to fall into the hands of the living YHVH.

J.
 
J

Johann

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Water Baptism could not seal an envelope.

The SEALING and the NEW BIRTH< IS CREATED by the Holy Spirit, not by the city water supply.
Yup, and here I also agree.
But if you want to see/witness great division among the brethren, bring these topics up, water baptism, law, triune God, is Christ God, works, endure, whatever doctrinal doctrine...and you 'll see the fangs.


Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.


1Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
1Th 2:5 For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:
1Th 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
1Th 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:

Great posts so far
J.
 

BloodBought 1953

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I pray the newbies take notice of all the scripture @Grailhunter posts.

OTOH you and @Behold provide none.
As usual. Because there is none to back up your strange doctrine.

I pray newbies read the NT.

I pray you learn to treat others with respect and love.

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you love one another.


I pray that you and Quail Hunter understand what ‘self righteousness” and “ Falling from Grace” is before you die......otherwise, it ain’t gonna be pretty....

All that “ Newbies “ with brains have to do is read the Book Of Galatians ....then hopefully they will see the difference between Christians like myself and Behold, and Self - Righteous Religionists like you and Quail—- guys that have become “ Severed from Christ” because they ADD to the Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace....

I pray that Newbies actually BELIEVE the song that they sing—- “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus” ....and NOT the song that You and Quail are singing , “ Nothing But Be Good and Do Good” and “ Nothing Of myself I bring —- it’s only to my Morality that I Cling”......
 

BloodBought 1953

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OTOH you and @Behold provide none.
As usual. Because there is none to back up your strange doctrine.


Of course, that is a lie, but try this verse on for size, Blind Guide—-

“ He is able to SAVE to the UTTERMOST those that come through Jesus to Him, because He Lives to make Intercession for them”

Can’t wait to see how you and Quail Twist That one.....
 

Grailhunter

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So you decided to stop sinning since it is a fearful thang/fang to fall into the hands of the living YHVH.

J.
What is a thang/fang?
Christ went through the passion to save us....from sin. Is it too much to ask to try our best not to sin? What sense does it make to manufacture a false religion that rewards sinning.

The Bible tells us that if we repent we can have our sins forgiven....it also tells us not to test grace. Particularly the same sin over and over again....sinful lifestyles...."This is my life style, men having sex with men" Silly for someone to believe Christ would forgive that. Like the Bible says....it is one thing to sin but to turn on it like a dog turns on its own vomit is another.
 

Ferris Bueller

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We have went through this before....if you find the word unbeliever in there let me know.....
If you find a scripture that states that New Testament scriptures were written to non-Christians and non-believers, let me know. If not there is another explaination.
Hebrews 10:26-31 is about the believer who goes back to unbelief. It is a warning to the believer, made clean by the blood of Christ, to not go back to unbelief. Because if they do they will go to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back.
 
J

Johann

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What is a thang/fang?
Christ went through the passion to save us....from sin. Is it too much to ask to try our best not to sin? What sense does it make to manufacture a false religion that rewards sinning.

The Bible tells us that if we repent we can have our sins forgiven....it also tells us not to test grace. Particularly the same sin over and over again....sinful lifestyles...."This is my life style, men having sex with men" Silly for someone to believe Christ would forgive that. Like the Bible says....it is one thing to sin but to turn on it like a dog turns on its own vomit is another.
Paul asked, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2). Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus. That’s what it means to say that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:6). We have a new boss. We cannot be followers of Christ and followers of sin at the same time. They are going in opposite directions (Luke 9:23; 14:33). Romans 12:2 instructs, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Renewal can take some time, but it is a process that produces a change of behavior.

When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience. Hebrews 12:7–8 says, “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.” If a professing Christian can choose a lifestyle of sin without experiencing enough discipline to bring him to repentance, then according to this Scripture, it is highly unlikely that that person is a child of God.

Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No. Scripture indicates that, while we will always “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT)....progressive sanctification, ne, but then you don't need sanctification.

What is the purpose of sanctification?
J.
 

Ferris Bueller

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“ He is able to SAVE to the UTTERMOST those that come through Jesus to Him, because He Lives to make Intercession for them
Which shows that you must have the ministry of Christ always interceding for you. That's why you must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved. The completed intercessory ministry of Christ is continually applied to you through your continuing faith.

"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5
 

amigo de christo

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It's funny how believing in the blood of Christ is being a grace rejecter, but living unabashedly in sin and unbelief is not.
23954_3dfa4dc98816595163dd1dd8d90bf2ef.png
 

BloodBought 1953

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Be good and do good.
Johnny Appleseed of Truth



More like the “ Johnny Appleseed” Of False and Perverted “ Gospels” .... Fall for them and you are “ Fallen From Grace”.....Go a step farther than that and actually TEACH them on Forums or anyplace else , and you become “ Accursed” — a polite way to say “God - Damned!”

The actual, BIBLICAL “ Truth” that is so elusive for Mr. Quail, is this—- “ There is NO ONE GOOD—- No, NOT ONE!”

If anybody could actually “ Be Good” , God

was cruel beyond belief to send His Son to an agonizing death on the Cross....


God will be eager to hear all about you supposed “ Goodness” come Judgement Day....Are YOU gonna be eager to hear “His” Words when He says, “ Depart from me, I never knew you...? ”...... be prepared.....it’s coming.....

As for Me? I will be asking God what is the fastest way to the “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb” Table....I will be pointing to the Shed Blood on the Heavenly Mercy Seat as I run off to eat......I will be declaring that my *TRUST* in that Sprinkled Blood that was Shed to pay for my Sins and obtain the total Forgiveness for my Sins is the ONLY reason that I have gained my Entrance to Heaven....

Your “ mind- frame” on that Great Day had better be similar to mine—- you see, it turns out that all along it was actually , “ Nothing But The Blood” for Salvation....

“ Be Good and Do Good?” ....Only a Fool would argue against that ! Even God prefers morality over immorality ! But not to SAVE you! Trusting in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 and RESTING in it and the Shed Blood are the only things that Save a person....

So yes! Don’t be a fool! Make every attempt in this lifetime to “ be good”—— just don’t be a Bigger Fool and think that it Saves you....
 

amigo de christo

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Rather odd that JESUS even warns the church , HOLD FAST to that which you have , THAT NO MAN TAKES YOUR CROWN .
PS , false prophets are crown takers .
No wonder peter warned the church who DID BELEIVE , SEEING YOU KNOW THE TRUTH , BEWARE lest you get led away with the ERROR
of the wicked and FALL from your own steadfastness . HOW come JESUS warns the church
paul warns the church , peter did , but when we do today we get called legalsits who dont trust in the finished works of Christ .
But who is really trusting in men , IS it those who twist and omit all those IFS and all those warnings to suit a doctrine of men
OR is it those who simply BELIEVE and take heed to the very warnings OF JESUS and of the apostels . JUST SOMETHING THAT ALL
should PONDER ON . AND fast too .
 
J

Johann

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OTOH you and @Behold provide none.
As usual. Because there is none to back up your strange doctrine.


Of course, that is a lie, but try this verse on for size, Blind Guide—-

“ He is able to SAVE to the UTTERMOST those that come through Jesus to Him, because He Lives to make Intercession for them”

Can’t wait to see how you and Quail Twist That one.....
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.


Dan 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
Dan 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.


Jer 3:21 A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God.
Jer 3:22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.
Jer 3:23 Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel.
Jer 3:24 For shame hath devoured the labour of our fathers from our youth; their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters.
Jer 3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God.

J.
 
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