Jim B
Well-Known Member
Blah, blah, blah. You are totally wrong. Your doctrine is totally screwed up. Why not leave the false teaching of the Catholic denomination and join those of us who know the truth?
Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?
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Blah, blah, blah. You are totally wrong. Your doctrine is totally screwed up. Why not leave the false teaching of the Catholic denomination and join those of us who know the truth?
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You are clearly deluded! Luke 1:34, "Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I have not been intimate with a man?"
Do you know what that says? (Obviously you don't!) It says that Mary was a virgin prior to getting pregnant with Jesus. Nothing more. Everything else you add onto that fact are Catholic lies.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Don't take me wrong....love her to death but all females are virgins until they meet the guy that impregnates them...then they are no longer called virgin Sally.
Virgin birth....another phrase that is not in the Bible.
The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; for that reason also the holy Child will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35 LOL The number one most detailed example of sex in the Bible..
It is important to Christianity that Christ is not a created being....It important to Christianity that Christ is the Son of God... significate to the love and sacrifice of God the Father....that He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son....Ya now what begotten means....there is whole bunch of begotten going on in the Old Testament. Yeshua is the real Son of Yahweh.
The Catholic church had issues with the whole scenario. Miriam being impregnated out of wedlock and then even worse she was impregnated while being betrothed to another man, it was all a scandal. So with that and their negatives views of sexuality and women they did not even want Christ passing through the birth canal, so in their version of the story, they had Him beamed into her womb and beamed out of her womb....kind of like Star Trek.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Then apparently you're deaf!
It's simply ironic that the verse you quote is from the letter that Paul wrote to the church in Rome. How do you think that Paul's epistles and the rest of the Bible has been preserved for thousands of years? I'll give you a hint: they were written down!!!
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You are delusional, blinded by your false ideology. Your saying that I am attacking Christ is actually a complement, since it comes from you. You don't even know who Christ is!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Meaningless drivel! "catholic" means universal; Catholic is a false denomination. You are displaying your ignorance once again!
BTW, your citing these verses out of context is another example of your false ideology. Have you even read them? (Oh wait, you don't believe the Bible.)
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Praying to dead human Mary and to dead human "saints" is a definite no-no because it's akin to spiritualism-
"..Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?" (Isaiah 8:19)
Instead people should cut them out of the loop and pray directly to God as Jesus instructed- "Our Father which art in heaven.."
"..Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?" (Isaiah 8:19)
Instead people should cut them out of the loop and pray directly to God as Jesus instructed- "Our Father which art in heaven.."
Jim B
Well-Known Member
This is just another example of your delusion! You are clearly distorting the Bible. Oh wait, you don't believe what the Bible truly says; it's all in your confused head!
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Asking intercession from the saints has nothing to do with spiritualism, or the occult, or necromancy.
Contrary to many non-Catholic claims, biblical evidence for these practices is abundant.
1) We ask others on earth to pray for us.
2) Angels (many passages) and dead saints (Rev 6:9-10) care very much for us.
3) Angels are aware of earthly events (Lk 15:10, 1 Cor 4:9, and many other passages); so are dead saints (Heb 12:1). Moreover, angels are extremely intelligent and can deduce our thoughts and follow our actions.
4) We observe both angels (Rev 8:3-4; cf. Tob 12:12-15) and dead saints (Rev 5:8) presenting our prayers to God, and know from other passages that they intercede for us (Jer 15:1; 2 Macc 15:13-14).
5) The Bible says that the prayers of the righteous are very powerful in their effects (Jas 5:16-18). How much more the prayers of perfected saints (Mt 22:30; 1 Jn 3:2) and always-sinless angels?
6) Men also talk to dead men (1 Sam 28:12-15; cf. Sir 46:20; Mt 17:1-3; 27:50-53; Rev 11:3) and angels on numerous occasions, and angels initiate discourse with human beings (Gen 21:17-18; when Jesus Christ was born); this is scarcely distinguishable from invocation of them.
7) Petitions made to angels are granted (Gen 19, 32, 48).
8) Therefore, it follows that we can ask either to intercede.
Often there is confusion over Catholics’ use of the phrase, “praying to saints.” Protestants typically think that we can’t communicate to anyone who is not alive on this earth, and that to do so is tantamount to “praying” to them, and that this is wrong, because [so they claim] one can only pray to God.
They’re wrong. We can ask them to pray for us (which is what Catholics who know anything about their faith mean by “praying to saints”), and that is not prayer, if by prayer we mean (as Protestants believe) only that they grant our requests under their own power. No they don’t. They make powerful requests to God, Who then decides whether to grant our requests or not. They are intercessors to God, not the granters of the prayers.
That said, Catholics often use the phrase “pray[ing] to saints”: meaning “asking them to intercede.” St. Thomas Aquinas makes a very useful clarification:
Prayer is offered to a person in two ways: first, as to be fulfilled by him, secondly, as to be obtained through him. On the first way we offer prayer to God alone, since all our prayers ought to be directed to the acquisition of grace and glory, which God alone gives, according to Psalm 83:12, “The Lord will give grace and glory.” But in the second way we pray to the saints, whether angels or men, not that God may through them know our petitions, but that our prayers may be effective through their prayers and merits.”
(Summa Theologica, Second Part of the Second Part, Question 83:4: “Should We Pray to God Alone?”)source
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Christ is fully God and fully man
Virgin birth
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Miraculous conception and miraculous birth remaining a virgin!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
2 plus 2 equals 5? Quoting a single, out-of-context verse from Isaiah (where the word translated "virgin" is a generic Hebrew term for "young woman") to build doctrine is total nonsense!
Mary and Joseph had intercourse multiple times, since Jesus had siblings. That's what the Bible says!
so was Dan 13 and
2 Maccabees 12:46
It is therefore a holy and wholesomethought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
but you don’t believe them!
and it was not all written down!
To attack the church or her holy doctrine of s to attack Christ her founder!
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
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