What if you lose your faith?

[Grailhunter]

You are not anywhere near "mainstream christianity", as this is strictly related to Paul, and you are definitely not of that persuasion, Grailhunter.

If you think that OSAS is anywhere near main stream Christianity....you are a complete joke.
It is the dream of all heretics to make their beliefs mainstream but it is a evil fantasy.

Ive shown you clearly, that Jesus said you must be born again.

It is a measure of character how people misrepresent what others say.....some would even call it lying.

Everyone knows that Yeshua said that we must be born again.

Also, I dont "make things up".. .Im strictly Pauline Theology.
WikIpedia this term, so that you can find out what that means, and then you pretend you "always knew what that means".

You are hilarious! OSAS is self explanatory .... saved no matter how much you sin....a license to sin and be rewarded for it.
They believe Christ died on the cross so those that believe in Him can go on sinning and go to heaven. demon heresy.
You need to come out of the closet.

So, imagine a theological christian pretender, who reads...... Philippians 1:6 that Says God Himself is FAITHFUL to COMPLETE your Salvation, and then these Cross rejecting Grace hating fakirs pile up on my Threads ranting about .."no, i can lose it"...."i have more power then God's faithfulness to complete it".

That is kool! I love the whole battling scripture thing.....her ya go a few salvos......boom!

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

1st John:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Want some more!?

Jesus did say that you have eternal life if you are born again, and eternal life is not temporary.

Absolutely! And you will be alive for eternity....whether you are in heaven or hell.

Jesus did say that no one can take the born again away from Him, and that includes the born again themselves.

Jesus say....prove it.

Who is Jesus saying wants or is trying to take them away.....no thing discussed about people that sin their way out of salvation.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, knowing that we all must appear before judgment and will be judged for all we have done both good and bad and then our ultimate destination will be decided...

What you preach on your threads is heretical. What are Christians to do when faced with heresy? What would the Apostles do? Do you think Christ started a religion of sin and sin some more and go to heaven? Is that what Christ died for? Heaven full of evil?
God and good people have to move out or spend eternity with evil....sounds like what hell is for.

Now there is a flying machine in Ezekiel and if some wants to believe that Christ flew a flying saucer back to the bibleical era with bags full of "J's" so they could use them in the scriptures....I would laugh at that.....but OSAS can lead people that want to love God down a path to hell....that means they are my enemy and the enemy of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

If Christ is in you, and you went to hell, (Lost your salvation) then Christ would go to hell with you, as you are in Spiritual Union with Christ.

Please stop speaking nonsense and post some verse.
IF Christ is in me, I'm not going to hell.
Show me some verse that state I can never forfeit my salvation.
Explicit verses.
And maybe you should do a study on what ETERNITY, ETERNAL means.
It would be helpful to you.

Paul said you can be presented before Jesus, as Blameless".
So, you see you will be before Jesus, and not in Hell.
Unbelievers do not meet Jesus......upon their death.

Wow.
Post the above verse and we'll discuss it.

So, to be presented blameless, is to never have had an occasion where you backslid or lost faith for a season.
You will still meet Jesus if you have had that time in your life where your faith was cold.... or dead.., so, you are not blameless in THAT, and the Judgment seat of Christ will find that out.
So, its not about SIN....its about a level of faith that does not get "dead" or "cold", and that is rare to find in a Christian that has 50 yrs of it.
That ONE< will meet Jesus blameless of that ..... most of the born again will not., as most have backslidden or had a time when God was just not that important.

HUH?????

 

[Behold]

Jesus spoke in parables.
But He MEANT what He said.
Do you know WHY He spoke in parables?
You also never replied to unconditional love.
Do YOU love someone unconditionally?
It would be nice if you loved your fellow Christians and taught them what Jesus and Paul taught.
And OSAS is not one of their teachings.
Jesus will never leave us.
But there are persons that leave Jesus.
I wonder if persons like you are just so worried that they might be lost that they make up this doctrine, which did not even exist at the time of the early church.

Yes i love unconditionally.
But that is not the same as teaching.

And you have no idea about what Paul taught, and in fact, if i asked you to explain why Paul said the gospel of the Grace of God is "my Gospel", you would not be able to explain it.

If i asked you to explain the Blood Atonement as the "one time eternal sacrifice for ALL SIN".....you would not be able to explain what Paul is teaching.

and.....The other that you wrote, is just to be insulting, and im immune.

I write Threads that Give all Credit to Christ for saving and keeping you saved, which is "Eternal life", and you come to my Thead and try to deny that Christ keeps you saved., using a verse that "look behold i can read it, so that must mean what it says".

So, yeah, its not helping you to be here, but it is helping others who are not self savers to read your "christ will get rid of me if i dont do this"... type of Cross Rejection.
You live in a religion of trying not to go to hell, based on some symbolic verses, and some that you didn't understand.
And you found some support, as there are always these type people on a forum, so you now think you are empowered and are teaching truth, because some heretics gave you some pats on the back.
You're not teaching truth.

I showed you that Salvation is a GIFT that God will never repent of, and you dont care about that, as you want to argue your one obsession.
The argument is your goal.
So, in that way, you and Ferris Bueller are Identical Twins., and theologically, the same.

You've been telling yourself that you are saved for a long time, but you dont actually believe that Christ keeps you saved.

Thats not good., and you dont care.

 

[GodsGrace]

God does not have to accept you more then once.
As being Born again, once, is enough.

And yes, i know the parable of the Prodigal.
You were telling us recently that you'd get rid of your child if they didnt behave as you would have it.
You were explaining that your love is not unconditional, for your kids, and that you'd get rid of them if they turned their back on you.
So, its you GodsGrace, that has no real understanding of the Father's Love for the one that left.

Get rid of my kids?
How does one get rid of their kids?
Usually it's THE KIDS that leave and forfeit their family.
Or they beat up the parents and mistreat them. Guess the parents should just take it and love them anyway.

Your funny Behold.
I don't think you're who I thought you were.
That person is rather intelligent and I'm starting to wonder if you even understand the English language that well.
Many here are from different countries...you might be one.

Now, if you know the parable of the Prodigal Son, I have some work for you.
Read it again, and tell us if you see the word AGAIN anywhere in there. Hint...it's in the 20's.
It has to do with the son being lost and found AGAIN.
AGAIN means two times.
It means he became saved AGAIN.
Look for it and report back.

 

[Behold]

HUH?????

If Christ is in you, and you aren't going to hell, then stop denying this by saying that if you lost your faith you will go to hell.

And "BLAMELESS". or not.,, regarding never having a faith Crisis, or dead faith.

You will be PRESENTED.......

Before JESUS.... as never having had this issue, which is blameless in that regard, or not.

That is not going to happen to an unbeliever, who is never born again., as they are in hell when they die
They dont meet Jesus.
There are no Christ rejectors that are going to do anything but end up in hell, and then Hit the Grt White Throne Judgement, and then the Lake of Fire.

 

[Behold]

Get rid of my kids?
How does one get rid of their kids?
.

You told us that if your kid turned their back on you, that you would disown them......

Did you not tell me this?

Did you edit the post later, to hide it?

So, you're not being honest, but you expect me to be this for you.

I dont think that's going to work for you.

 

[Behold]

Now, if you know the parable of the Prodigal Son, I have some work for you.
Read it again, and tell us if you see the word AGAIN anywhere in there. Hint...it's in the 20's.
It has to do with the son being lost and found AGAIN.
AGAIN means two times.
It means he became saved AGAIN.
Look for it and report back.

The prodigal son parable is about being a Son, being a bad one, but always a son.
The father had 2 sons.
The one that returned was still a son.
So, that is God's unconditional love.

The verse has a larger context, as Jesus gave this parable before He died on the Cross for all SINNERS who are the "prodigal" in the Parable.
And coming Home to Father, is to be born again... to become 'ONE with God".


The reason you can't be "saved" 34 times, is because being born again, is to have become Saved.
And you are only born again Once.
Being Born again, is the Legit proof you have been saved.

So, to teach that you can be saved more then once, is to teach that you can be born again, again, and again.
So, is that "intelligent" teaching?
No.

 

[GodsGrace]

here is how you know that this verse has to be "rightly divided" and not just read and retreaded.

Notice now.

The born again, already have eternal life, and Jesus says that "no once can take them out of my hand".
And that includes NOONE... = the born again person themselves.
Salvation is our Gift., and "the Gifts of God (Salvation) are without repentance'. = will never be removed.....for any reason.
So, when you read your verse, and then Jesus says that the born again shall "never perish"....... you have to use other verses to compare with a verse that is an orphan.
If you dont do this, the the one verse will cause the rest of the verses to not exist for you, in your understanding.

No Behold.
My verse says the following:
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,



Here are some other verses about holding fast....it is not an orphan verse.

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
But test everything; hold fast what is good.


1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.


Titus 1:9
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.


1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.


Revelation 3:8
“‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

Revelation 3:3
Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.





Need more?
We are saved IF we are IN Jesus.
If not, we are not saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS, was created in the time of JUDE, as a way to deceive believers out of the true understanding of God's Grace. He speaks about how the Devil used some of his deceived to turn the Grace of God, into the idea of "license"
You dont know this., and here you are doing it.

Could you please post verses?
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

The prodigal son parable is about being a Son, being a bad one, but always a son.
The father had 2 sons.
The one that returned was still a son.
So, that is God's unconditional love.

The verse has a larger context, as Jesus gave this parable before He died on the Cross for all SINNERS who are the "prodigal" in the Parable.
And coming Home to Father, is to be born again... to become 'ONE with God".


The reason you can't be "saved" 34 times, is because being born again, is to have become Saved.
And you are only born again Once.
Being Born again, is the Legit proof you have been saved.

So, to teach that you can be saved more then once, is to teach that you can be born again, again, and again.
So, is that "intelligent" teaching?
No.

Ummm.
I didn't say one could be saved 34 times.
You put words into person's mouths and you misrepresent what they post.

I think our time is coming to an end.

 

[Behold]

But there are persons that leave Jesus.
One admitted person is right here on this thread.
.

You can walk away from your family, but you are still their son or daughter.

BIRTH is what made you their son or daughter, not your behavior.

So, you can't stop being born again., and to be born again is why you are a Son/Daughter of God.
You behavior is not relevant to this....at all.
God accepts FAITH, not behavior. And once you have given Him your faith, God then gives you a BIRTH., that you can't end by behavior or a faith meltdown.

Faith does not save you, so faith does not keep you saved.
God saves you, through your faith, ONE TIME = born again.
You can never stop being born again, for any reason.

This person that "use to believe".....etc etc.
If they are born again, then that is the final answer.

 

[Behold]

Could you please post verses?
Thanks.

Jude

Study.

 

[Grailhunter]

So, you can't stop being born again., and to be born again is why you are a Son/Daughter of God.
You behavior is not relevant to this....at all.

Your behavior is not relevant to being born again.....and you can scream that from hell if you spend your life sinning.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jude

Study.

You do the same Behold.
And while you're at it, read the ENTIRE NT.
And post verses...YOU have to do the work - not me.
Read my posts and note how I post the entire verse and where to find it.
Your opinions don't interest me...only what the Word of God says interests me.
Post the ENTIRE word of God.

And if you want me to believe about Jude...which YOU brought up...
it's up to YOU to show me how OSAS came about because of doctrine in the book of Jude.
'night.

 

[Behold]

Ummm.
I didn't say one could be saved 34 times.
You put words into person's mouths and you misrepresent what they post.

I think our time is coming to an end.

You stated that its possible to be saved again.
I wrote 34 times to point out the foolishness of this idea.
See it now?
So, its Not possible to be saved again, or 34 more times., as God only Gives one "born again". per person.

you are familiar with the Pentecostal and Charismatic Denominations?
They teach that you can be "re-saved".
Many Charismatics and similar go to the alter to get "re-saved".

So, thats tragic and sad., as they are just so lost in their crazy theology.

 

[Behold]

You do the same Behold.
And while you're at it, read the ENTIRE NT.
And post verses...YOU have to do the work - not me.
.

Posting the entire NT, proves you can cut and paste.
You posted a lot of verses in your post that have nothing to do with your argument, but, it makes you feel good to post them, so....there it is.
Nothing more.

Read my THREAD.....the Thread.
It has already done the "work".
The rest of this, is as i said....just allowing the contrast to be plainly seen for the benefit of those who are not twisted into calvinism or legalism.
For their protection.
And sometimes, a person like you, who is arguing with me, will find a way out.
Ive had many come to me with a thankful heart., as they had lived 20, 30, or a lifetime of...>"i might lose my salvation", and never had peace, because you can't have peace with God and believe that you are responsible to stay saved.

ok then.

 

[Behold]

Your behavior is not relevant to being born again.....and you can scream that from hell if you spend your life sinning.

You dont go to hell for sinning.
You go to hell for this..... John 3:36.

So, behavior, is related to discipleship, regarding a born again Christian.
Its not related to Salvation, as Jesus is Salvation, not your behavior.

 

[Grailhunter]

You dont go to hell for sinning.
You go to hell for this..... John 3:36.

So, behavior, is related to discipleship, regarding a born again Christian.
Its not related to Salvation, as Jesus is Salvation, not your behavior.

If you sin you cannot go to heaven....where do you think you are going to go? Can you read.....?

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

1st John:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

As a OSAS believer have you blacked these scriptures out in your Bible....? Do you explain them away in your head? Do you have a special cherry picker Bible that saves you the trouble of ignoring the Word of God?

 

[Behold]

If you sin you cannot go to heaven..

Let me just shut your endless lying down, right here.

You have sinned, since you were saved., Grailhunter.
If you deny that you have sinned since you say you became a christian, then you just LIED on a public forum.
Got that?

So, according to your theology, that you just posted, where you said that ""if you sin you can't go to heaven"......then you wont be going.
Now..
Come and lie more and say you have not sinned since you became a believer., and that will be one more lie you have told that will keep you out of HEAVEN, according to what you just posted.

 

[Grailhunter]

You have sinned, since you were saved., Grailhunter.

And that is the problem with debating OSAS ..... getting involved and reasoning with something as Ludacris as OSAS....it is a new heresy, with roots that spread out along the surface. It does not make sense at any level and some say because it makes no sense then that proves it is of God...but what it really is , is a religion of non-sense. Whether it be OSAS or Calvinism.

Be good and do good was how Christ lead His life and it is my motto.
Salvation is secure but not guaranteed regardless.
We all sin and we ask forgiveness and Christ forgives and forgets.....but for your average Christian those sins are like cussing after we stub our toe or occasionally drinking too much. Not rape or child molestation or murder or wife or child abuse or drug abuse....Most Christians are pretty boring sinners. Not much to forgive. And most Christians know that Good Deeds are important. Look at what happened to those in the parable of the sheep and the goats that did not help others....they went to hell? More ways than one to go to hell. Good Deeds do not save you but not doing Good Deeds can send you to hell.....Your righteousness does not save you, but not being righteousness can send you to hell.

You mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses.....you scared of going to hell because of what you are doing? Should you be? If you are that scared you might consider converting to Jehovah's Witnesses....no reason to be scared of Christ's Judgement He is just a guy....and they do not believe in hell....so you are good.....sin all you want.