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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You're not real smart about all this.
The believing person has in fact already obtained eternal life (John 5:24). That's not what is in contention. The argument is, he must continue to believe in order to remain in that promise of eternal life (1 John 2:24-25).
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
So you're saying it's those who were never born again that don't hold firmly. Then that means the truly born again are the ones who continue to believe. Which completely obliterates your theology.
"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14
You really need to think these things through before you post.
You dont have that problem.
Your problem is that you dont believe that Jesus keeps you saved.
Instead, you believe that YOU keep YOU saved, by "holding unto your SAVIOR = Faith".
So, as i explained to you in 30+ posts.
You have no idea that God's Accepts Faith, and once that happens, ONCE... you belong to God.
See, the born again are not their own....they are "bought with a price'. = The blood of Jesus.
Of which you have no idea.
I just post above your pay grade.
See, i just explained that verse with 2 more from that same Chapter.
And you can't even begin to find those verses in context, that explain yours.
No.
Im showing you that John makes the distinction between the unbelievers, as those who have no certain root or real faith, vs the born again who are already a part of God.
This explains your verse that has tripped you for years, and will continue to, as you continue to enjoy trying to ruin people's faith.
One day that will come to a sudden stop, as God is not mocked.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
JESUS Does keep us saved . SO i suggest we believe all HIS SAYINGS . Even the one that says YE MUST CONTINUE TO THE END .
Cause if we cant trust in JESUS , i would not expect that soul to hear WELL DONE but rather I NEVER KNEW YOU .
WHO is trusting in JESUS and who is trusting in men who cannot save .
I aint the one saying we can stop believing and would still be saved.
JESUS never taught such a thing . EVEN his parbables proved the ones who did not continue were not saved at the end
NOR HAD EVER BEEN SAVED TO BEGIN WITH . IF we cant trust in JESUS then we aint gonna make it . TRUTH IS
we were never really HIS to begin with .
Yes, the promise of the inheritance is for the Believer.
That should make sense to even you.
But those who dont HAVE THE PROMISE........these dont have it already as they dont have real faith.
They have no WORD in them, who is Christ., who is the "earnest (the Holy Spirit) of our inheritance"""..
Christ in us is the seal of the proof that the born again have the inheritance, for eternity.
You cant understand this, so you think....your faith keeping is your inheritance, kept.
Try to understand that once Christ is in you, you dont keep him in there by continuing to have faith.
But rather He continues to keep you as 'one with God".......as He FINISHES YOUR FAITH, and by having become your blood atonement and eternal life.
Hebrews 12:2
And God is faithful to complete the salvation of a real born again believer.
God does this for you, not you.
You just try to work on that discipleship, if you are really born again.
Philippians 1:6
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
THEN stop teaching if one stops believing they are still saved . You have taught an error that should never have been taught .
You yourself say if one is truly born again they would never cease to believe , BUT THEN YOU GO on to say
if one ceases to believe , they still are saved . THAT my friend makes ZERO SENSE . and JESUS never taught it
nor did the apostels . In fact they warned against it . WE SHOULD TOO .
You are saved when you believe, ONCE.....and your faith is accepted ONCE by God as your Righteousness.
You dont wake up the next day, trying to keep believing to keep that, which God has ALREADY Given you ONCE, and forever.
The born again HAVE Eternal LIFE.........>HAVE IT.
Understand?
Not, trying to keep it......ThEY HAVE IT>
Being BORN AGAIN is proof you have Salvation.
Its done.
There is no keeping it by behavior....or "holding unto faith"..., there is only HAVING IT. = "SON of God".
Its done.
If you believe that Jesus/God Keeps you saved, then do not ever say again that you can lose your salvation or support HERETICS who teach that God does not keep you saved.
You either trust God or you dont.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
No . JESUS warned about the parable of those who did believe , did recieve the word with JOY
and then later fell away . ITs proof they were never of us , but they did at one time believe and recieve the word with joy
Yet later fell away . Again they never truly knew HIM , BUT they had believed for a while , then fell away .
nowhere does that imply once you believe you can later stop beleiving , IN FACT IT PROVES OTHERWISE .
THAT IF you dont continue IN HIM , THE END IS UGLY . SURE i aint saying they were truly OF HIM
what i am saying however is , CEASE THE TEACHING that if after you believe you can then later not believe .
JESUS NEVER TAUGHT IT . JESUS said CONTINUE TO THE END . PAUL said the same . WHY IS IT SUCH SIN
for you to say the same . That alone should have you looking back into the bible and to stop trusting in what YE BELIEVE .
Rather go and learn the bible for yourself and not through the lens of men either .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You are the one who cant trust in JESUS . HE said WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO THE END . YOU SAY if one says that they dont have faith .
CAN YOU SEE your error yet .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I have to admit thta second line was very scary . The one that said , GOD does not accept ONLY HIS WORK to accept anyone .
TRUTH IS , ITS THE ONLY WAY ANY MAN CANBE ACCEPTED .
THE WORK OF GOD IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHOM GOD DID SEND . PEROID .
I take that to the celestial bank . THE ONLY and i do mean ONLY way to be saved
IS .................can i have a drum roll......................BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHOM GOD DID SEND . PEROID . THAT MEANS
BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST . Take it to the bank and never let a soul believe otherwise .
Now a hearer only is a false as i once was . CAUSE if we truly BELIEVE IN JESUS GOOD WORKS WILL FLOW FORTH FROM US
AS IT IS by THE VERY SPIRIT GOD HAS GIVEN UNTO THE LAMBS THAT WE DO THE THINGS PLEASING IN HIS SIGHT .
Thats a OT parable, not a NT doctrine.
That parable was given to JEWS, in the OLD Covenant, before Jesus DIED ON THE CROSS.
He died as our Sacrifice , so that God can offer Salvation to us, as "the Gift of Salvation", as the NEW Covenant, and NEW Testament.
You do not earn or keep, a GIFT from God... as the "Gifts and Callings of God are without Repentance".
"without repentance" = means......will never be taken away, or changed....Forever.
Look it up !
Salvation is a GIFT....that is given "without repentance", = will never change or stop or be taken away.
Not ever.
My gosh, this is unbelievable.....you contradict yourself in two sentences and you are completely blind to it.....
You say the Truth proclaimed by Jesus that the Believer “ has *ALREADY* obtained Eternal Life” and then turn right around and say “ he must continue to believe to obtain Eternal Life”....
What on Earth do you think “ALREADY” means? The person Believes—- Jesus did NOT say, “Now you have a ‘ Chance’ to get Eternal Life if you don’t blow it by falling into the Error Of Unbelief”......He COULD have said that , and it would have made sense—- but He DIDN’T ! I guess Jesus did not have the foresight to see that this problem could arise and therefore He failed to address it.....Of course He knew it was possible for a Believer to Severely “ Stumble” in this manner.....But by His Word in these verses , he eliminates that problem as far as Salvation is concerned....If the listener to Jesus Words hears and Believes , they are Covered no matter what —- They are ALREADY Saved and will NEVER come under Condemnation
If I “ALREADY” let the horse out of the Barn, no matter WHAT happens, he is Out of that Barn and nothing can take that fact back.....likewise, somebody that has ALREADY been Justified and Saved is living out a Promised FACT....it can’t be undone if it’s already done.....
Please go to a dictionary and study what the words “ Already” and “ never” mean......Jesus could NOT have spoken any plainer.....
I dont offer my self effort to God, in place of the Cross.
Im not that one.
I suggest you also dont do that.
See, Salvation is not us enduring or climbing up a wall, or trying to be like Christ, or keeping commandments.
Salvation, is what Jesus has finished on the Cross that God will give you........not because you will endure, as that would be a trade.
And trust me, you have nothing to offer God that is equal to Christ's Blood, and that includes your self righteous enduring.
You are correct ....” Endurance” does not Save....
But lets “ pretend” for just a minute......let’s say that you “ DO” have to endure.....well, the Believer has THAT covered also....
I’ll quote it again—- “.... and who is it that Endures other than he that Believes that Jesus” is the Son Of God”
Good point. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Christ IS our Eternal Life.
We have Him in us which is our Eternal Life....., and Eternal life : literally endures forever.
"Christ in you, the Hope of Glory".. (Glory is heaven)
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