Why do Catholics…

[amadeus]

Thank you Amadeus.

I think I understand what you are saying but please correct me if I am wrong:

We agree that Jesus chose 12 men to continue to teach the Truth AFTER he left this earth.

We agree that those 12 men were filled with and were directed by the Holy Spirit into this Truth AND that they passed this Truth onto other men.

It seems were you and I part ways is that you do not believe this Truth was continued via an authoritative Church led by those same men. You believe that those men that the Truth was given to (students of the Apostles) did not stick together! They all went their separate ways and started their own churches in different countries and towns.

Do I have it right so far?

Respectfully, Mary

No! You do not have it right and you have no real interest in discussing any points of disagreement. Find someone who wants to argue with you. I do not. I want to focus on serving the One I love and becoming more like Him. I am willing to help people who want what God may have to offer them through me.

 

[bbyrd009]

might be worth reflecting upon what the symbolic value 0f "12" really is

 

[amadeus]

Previously you stated that some "are following the wrong head and are wrong". You then admitted, "That would certainly include me".

So is it possible that this is one of those times that you are following the wrong head and you are wrong about The Church NOT continuing the succession of the Truth thru Apostolic Succession?

Curious Mary

Do you ever believe it is necessary for you to go to confession? Now I have answered another of your questions with a question. The answer to your question to me is likely to be found in your own answer to my question to you! Go for it if you will!

I have had a long day. I am tired of your nit picking as if your logic and knowledge was going to change what God has given me. I am not walking on eggshells nor on thin ice. I am living for God seven days a week... with His help moving toward praying without ceasing and rejoicing in Him always.

 

[amadeus]

might be worth reflecting upon what the symbolic value 0f "12" really is

God would probably like it if some of us were to do that. Are some people more interested in proving themselves right or in proving someone else wrong than in encountering anything new from God?

Do you suppose that God knows anything about the number 12 that would help anyone here on this forum? Has He revealed anything like that to anyone? Will He?

 

[bbyrd009]

God would probably like it if some of us were to do that. Are some people more interested in proving themselves right or in proving someone else wrong than in encountering anything new from God?

Do you suppose that God knows anything about the number 12 that would help anyone here on this forum? Has He revealed anything like that to anyone? Will He?

ya, but i guess you kinda have to read the instances for 12 and then reach your own conclusions, maybe? I will say that i was struck by how no one, without exceptions, that i asked in Israel had any idea what "tribe" they were from
12 in the bible at DuckDuckGo

 

[theefaith]

What does that film have to do with the topic here?
Have a nice day.

A successor to the apostles

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ok so do these “believers” in the royal priesthood offer a sacrifice?

I don’t mean the sacrifice of praise

No for there is no more sacrifice to be offered!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ummm....I literally just told you but I will cut and paste it for you to read again: I am attempting to nudge you to see how illogical your belief is that The Church should not have oneness with unity or conformity of thought!

For The Church to be ONE it must have CONFORMITY of thought on KEY salvific doctrines otherwise we end up with what we got in the 16th century; a Protestant Revolution that forever divided, instead of uniting, Christianity. NOT being ONE (of which Jesus prayed for) and NOT having conformity of thought (of which Scripture teaches) leads to false teachers twisting Scripture to their own destruction and to the destruction of those whose ears are tickled by their teaching of false doctrines. If Christianity is not ONE with CONFORMITY of thought we will never fulfill John 8:32 because everyone will teach their own "truth".

How much more direct can I be? Or is this just another artful dodge?

Well you said you were nudging me to teh truth. Is that teh truth you are nudging me to? So where would I go from there????? YOu know what I am asking and you know where you are shoving me to.

and illogical according to whom? Were they appointed the arbiter of what is logical and illogical?

Paul wrote that the message of the gospel is illogical to the worldly wise!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have answered kiddo.....In post #419.

But you came up with ANOTHER dodge in post #426....as expected. ;)

So all yu oare try9ing to nudge me to is that we must conform on salvific issues? Which ones? I believe in eternal security. If you are a good catholic, you don't which simply means that Jesus did not pay the price for all your sins!

I believe in unity, but not conformity in all issues. I believe in what are called teh 5 fundamentals of the faith. They are intensely biblical.

So you can never nudge me to your concept of thinking my logic is illogic. You have not even moderately quried me as to my stance. You are making assumptions based on less than a paragraph of information. Presumptuous at least.

 

[amadeus]

ya, but i guess you kinda have to read the instances for 12 and then reach your own conclusions, maybe? I will say that i was struck by how no one, without exceptions, that i asked in Israel had any idea what "tribe" they were from
12 in the bible at DuckDuckGo

Careful on that one. I tried it one of the links there and it locked up my computer and insisted that I call a toll free number for help. I did not.

Rather, I restored my computer myself. Seems to have fixed the problem, but I will it alone for now.

 

[farouk]

Do you ever believe it is necessary for you to go to confession?

@amadeus Wonderful to rely on the one Mediator (1 Timothy 2.5). :)

 

[Jim B]

Do you ever believe it is necessary for you to go to confession? Now I have answered another of your questions with a question. The answer to your question to me is likely to be found in your own answer to my question to you! Go for it if you will!

I have had a long day. I am tired of your nit picking as if your logic and knowledge was going to change what God has given me. I am not walking on eggshells nor on thin ice. I am living for God seven days a week... with His help moving toward praying without ceasing and rejoicing in Him always.

There is never any need to "go to confession". That is a non-Biblical rite. Christians are supposed to confess sins to each other.

 

[farouk]

@Cassandra Thanks for the 'like'; and it ought to be self-evident about our blessed Mediator, right?

 

[Taken]

@amadeus

All men who are converted IN Christ, receive the gift of Gods Word Within them...(Gods Spirit of Truth).
In Scripture (2 Tim 3:16), for refreshing, verifying, trust it, believe it, and are a disciple given a gift to speak, minister Gods word one to another.

1 Pet 4:
[10] As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
[11] If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

@Marymog is either not acquainted with that method or does not believe that method, but expresses ONLY particular people are chosen by succession, to be authorized to teach and decide what others will hear by such “succession” ...and all the People MUST hear, trust, believe them.
And likely why SHE can not answer Scriptural Questions with her words, but must go see what they say, and refer us to Their words.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Illuminator]

Do you ever believe it is necessary for you to go to confession?

It is necessary for Catholics to obtain forgiveness of serious sins through the priest, the Church does not impose this sacrament on outsiders.

There is never any need to "go to confession". That is a non-Biblical rite. Christians are supposed to confess sins to each other.

There is no "need" if you are not Catholic. The biblical evidence for this sacrament has been presented 1000 times on this board, only to be met with hostilities.

John 20:21 – before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, “as the Father sent me, so I send you.” As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 – the Lord “breathes” on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord “breathes” divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 – Jesus says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

James 5:15-16 – in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man’s authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

James 5:16 – James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Num. 5:7 – this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 – even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 – the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

See SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS - Scripture Catholic for more biblical evidence.

Examination of conscience, or, a moral inventory of our actions, is an important aspect of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It allows growth. It is never mentioned by hostile anti-Catholics. Their focus is always on confession, and not forgiveness. Sadly, Jim B will ignore this information, and continue to complain it is not in the Bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

Careful on that one. I tried it one of the links there and it locked up my computer and insisted that I call a toll free number for help. I did not.

Rather, I restored my computer myself. Seems to have fixed the problem, but I will it alone for now.

ok, ty. havent had that happen for a while now, maybe a year? i just backed out myself, and didnt have any other problems, but i am in safari, too…

i tried the first five real quick…wow, some pretty trashy ones lol? but none of them gave me the fake warning. Tbh in a search like that i usually just scan the search page to get a sense of the answer, but i posted the whole thing bc sometimes one can find useful new sites that way.

 

[Jim B]

It is necessary for Catholics to obtain forgiveness of serious sins through the priest, the Church does not impose this sacrament on outsiders.


There is no "need" if you are not Catholic. The biblical evidence for this sacrament has been presented 1000 times on this board, only to be met with hostilities.

John 20:21 – before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, “as the Father sent me, so I send you.” As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 – the Lord “breathes” on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord “breathes” divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 – Jesus says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

James 5:15-16 – in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man’s authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

James 5:16 – James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Num. 5:7 – this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 – even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 – the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

See SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS - Scripture Catholic for more biblical evidence.

Examination of conscience, or, a moral inventory of our actions, is an important aspect of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. It allows growth. It is never mentioned by hostile anti-Catholics. Their focus is always on confession, and not forgiveness. Sadly, Jim B will ignore this information, and continue to complain it is not in the Bible.

If it is not in the Bible then it is contrary to God's revealed truth. If Catholics think that sins are forgiven by confessing them to a "father" -- call no man "father" (Matthew 23:9, "And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.") -- and then the repetition of x number of "Hail Mary" prayers, then you are delusional.

Sola scriptura.

 

[amadeus]

It is necessary for Catholics to obtain forgiveness of serious sins through the priest, the Church does not impose this sacrament on outsiders.

There is no "need" if you are not Catholic. The biblical evidence for this sacrament has been presented 1000 times on this board, only to be met with hostilities.

I was an active Catholic from age 6 [1949] until high school graduation [1961] so I do understand some things about it. While there are many things I no longer do, I do not oppose people who do them sincerely and strive to be right with God.

I received too much good from the nuns and a couple of priests to ever put them down generally even though we may not agree on a lot of things. To me the most important is the heart of the believer. I believe that that goes along with what God truly is looking at in anyone.

 

[amadeus]

ok, ty. havent had that happen for a while now, maybe a year? i just backed out myself, and didnt have any other problems, but i am in safari, too…

i tried the first five real quick…wow, some pretty trashy ones lol? but none of them gave me the fake warning. Tbh in a search like that i usually just scan the search page to get a sense of the answer, but i posted the whole thing bc sometimes one can find useful new sites that way.

Usually, I have learned to deal with such problems myself. If I had to pay prices for outside help each time someone messed with me or my computer, I would have given up on the Internet long ago. I am extremely careful in any searches I do or in opening unknown links, but I am no computer whiz. They still get me now and then.

 

[Philip James]

No for there is no more sacrifice to be offered!

Hello Romald,

You think not?
For 2000 years our brothers and sisters have recognized the sacrifice of the Eucharist as the fulfilment of Malachi 1:11.
If there is no more sacrifice to be offered, how then is Malachi 1:11 fulfilled?

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!