Not Born with Sin Nature

[Ronald David Bruno]

it was not a commandment of God, but what Paul, himself, will not permit. Read it again. "I will not permit..." Paul stuck to Jewish customs to not jeopardize the appearance of evil for his beloved brethren.

" All Scripture is breathed out (inspired) by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17
I have to believe that. Otherwise, myriads of doubters in disbelief of what they read can chop the heck out of the Bible - if it doesn't work for them.

You feel strongly about your beliefs, so live as you will.

I wasn't going to tell you exactly what God said, but I will now. He said, "I didn't tell him (Paul) that." Those were uninspired words in a private letter to Timothy. And that bit about Eve was also no where else in scripture as a reference to all women.

Oh ... have you tried sharing your annointed conversation with the millions of male priests and pastors alive today so they can liberate the church from their mean spirited bullying of women and to finally allow them to stand up and preach to us because God told you not all the words of the Bible are actually from Him? No, you just attack scholars like John MacArthur who has done hundreds of times more than you could possibly do for the kingdom.
Actually, I just did a little search about the percentage of women pastors just in the U.S. in 1960's there were only 2% (obviously not Catholic priests), but of the Protestant/ Non-denominational faiths. And since then and the influence of the Women's Liberation movement, the number has risen to 20%. It is hard to believe that, but this generation certainly has experienced much change in society. And many would see it as sufferring a multitude of immoralities, in a downward spiral, towards the coming Judgment Day.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

@1stCenturyLady
Again, the WORD is from God, and these particular epistles are given to Paul to Timothy to address all.

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
To Timothy, my true [a]son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions." 1 Tim. 2:1-7

Read 2 Timothy 3
The entire chapter is about appointing Bishops, Priests, Deacons--- MEN (husbands of one wife, who have their families and affairs in order, hold honor and dignity and character within their communities. Then it has one verse directed to women.

Read 2 Timothy 3
The entire chapter is about appointing Bishops, Priests, Deacons--- MEN (husbands of one wife, who have their families and affairs in order, holds honor and dignity and character within their communities. Then it has one verse directed to women.
The whole letter is the context. You can't just pull a few verses out and say, "This is not from God, it was added by Paul ... God told me!"

If He had that message for the entire Church, wouldn't He tell someone through whom He could enact His powerful influence and transformation/correction of the entire structure, the administrative order and authorities within the Body of Christ?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

All Scripture is breathed out (inspired) by God

The key word is "Scripture," not everything in personal letters.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady
Again, the WORD is from God, and these particular epistles are given to Paul to Timothy to address all.

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and of Christ Jesus, who is our hope,
To Timothy, my true [a]son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions." 1 Tim. 2:1-7

Read 2 Timothy 3
The entire chapter is about appointing Bishops, Priests, Deacons--- MEN (husbands of one wife, who have their families and affairs in order, holds honor and dignity and character within their communities. Then it has one verse directed to women.

Read 2 Timothy 3
The entire chapter is about appointing Bishops, Priests, Deacons--- MEN (husbands of one wife, who have their families and affairs in order, holds honor and dignity and character within their communities. Then it has one verse directed to women.
The whole letter is the context. You can't just pull a few verses out and say, "This is not from God, it was added by Paul ... God told me!"

If He had that message for the entire Church, wouldn't He tell someone through whom He could enact His powerful influence and transformation/correction of the entire structure, the administrative order and authorities within the Body of Christ?

I didn't think you would believe me, but gave you the benefit of the doubt. So be it. For someone who says they can hear God, why be so pompous as to not ask Him for the truth? Are you the last word on truth? Or is He?

I'm putting you on ignore.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The key word is "Scripture," not personal letters.

Lol and you teach pastors ... oh boy!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I didn't think you would believe me, but want to justify your bullying. So be it.

I'm putting you on ignore.

NOT BULLYING, CORRECTING YOU. OKAY THEN.

 

[robert derrick]

Read what happened to me in #240.

So far as the bullying goes, it's only by cowards on web sites, that would never dare disrespect man or woman in person out of fear, not out of love.

Anyone that can show plain disrespect on these sites prove that any show of respect in person is just for show. But God sees the heart.

So far as women teaching and prophesying, there is no such rule against it, nor separation from men and women in worship, as the heathen and false religions of the Jews and Islamists do.

There are only two rules I read of reaction from women specifically in ministry:

1. Don't usurp authority over men by trying to teach men how to be men.

2. Don't ask questions doing service that hinders attention, but wait until after.

No woman is going to teach me with authority how to be a man, but any person, male or female, especially my own wife, can correct, rebuke, admonish, and give wisdom on any particular event or occasion: if a woman's words compel me to man-up, then man-up I must.

The second one I call the dumb-blonde rule, and it is true with my black haired wife: asking questions in the middle of something important needs to wait, in order to understand what is going on.

Making a comment or point about something is not a problem.

 

[robert derrick]

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

1. Souls die by sinning, not by being made dead with sin.

2. The soul sins and dies by sinning, not the body.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

1. Jesus' body of flesh was made of the physical seed of David through his offspring Mary.

2. Jesus' flesh and blood was not full of sin, even as no physical seed has sin in it.

3. The physical body of Jesus was mortal like every other body shaped by God from the dust and in the womb.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

The death that passed upon all men by sinning, is the death passing upon the souls of men for sins, not upon their bodies, which did no sin.

Mortality of the body was from the beginning, being made of the dust to return to the dust, and so no flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom of God, neither Adam's nor any other man's, including Jesus' own mortal body of flesh and blood.

Jesus was fully man, being a living soul in mortal flesh born of the womb on earth.

The only difference between the man Jesus Christ and all other living souls wrapped in mortal flesh, is that the soul of Christ was the living and holy One from everlasting, while all souls of men are made living by Jesus Christ in the lowest parts of the earth.

The only difference between the birth of Adam as a son of God, and that of every other living soul born on earth, including Jesus, was Adam being born without woman and put by the Lord into the garden of God, while Jesus was born of woman and laid by His mother in a manger.

There is no sin nature, no sin spirit, no 'sin' independent and apart from sinning.

Sin and love are action words, not nouns standing on their own without works.

Faith without works is dead, love without deeds is nothing, and sin with sinning is nowhere.

What is dead, is faith without works, and the OSAS lie of being born with sin nature, to justify unconditional salvation and justification of sinners doing sins with their bodies unto death.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So far as the bullying goes, it's only by cowards on web sites, that would never dare disrespect man or woman in person out of fear, not out of love.

Anyone that can show plain disrespect on these sites prove that any show of respect in person is just for show. But God sees the heart.

So far as women teaching and prophesying, there is no such rule against it, nor separation from men and women in worship, as the heathen and false religions of the Jews and Islamists do.

There are only two rules I read of reaction from women specifically in ministry:

1. Don't usurp authority over men by trying to teach men how to be men.

2. Don't ask questions doing service that hinders attention, but wait until after.

No woman is going to teach me with authority how to be a man, but any person, male or female, especially my own wife, can correct, rebuke, admonish, and give wisdom on any particular event or occasion: if a woman's words compel me to man-up, then man-up I must.

The second one I call the dumb-blonde rule, and it is true with my black haired wife: asking questions in the middle of something important needs to wait, in order to understand what is going on.

Making a comment or point about something is not a problem.

Seeing as he shared with me that he hears God also, I thought I would further share what exactly God told me about Paul's words in Timothy, but it turned out to be casting pearls before a con artist, so I put him on ignore. He conned me into thinking He also hears God, but proved himself unable, so was only a lie and a trick. He has nothing of worth to share.

I've talked to others who legitimately hear God, and He says the same thing to both of us.

 

[robert derrick]

Seeing as he shared with me that he hears God also, I thought I would further share what exactly God told me about Paul's words in Timothy, but it turned out to be casting pearls before a con artist, so I put him on ignore. He conned me into thinking He also hears God, but proved himself unable, so was only a lie and a trick. He has nothing of worth to share.

I've talked to others who legitimately hear God, and He says the same thing to both of us.

We cannot expect dead souls still freely sinning, to hear what the Spirit saith to the churches through Scripture.

Once we understand that, then we know it is simply an exercise of learning from them just are much and how far they will go to wrest Scripture to justify themselves.

I really don't believe there is no bottom to the ditch they ware willing to dig themselves into.

The great thing about it, is that it causes the saints to truly know exactly what Scripture is saying and teaching in order to refute the lies.

It has been, and still is a truly great learning experience for me.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We cannot expect dead souls still freely sinning, to hear what the Spirit saith to the churches through Scripture.

Once we understand that, then we know it is simply an exercise of learning from them just are much and how far they will go to wrest Scripture to justify themselves.

I really don't believe there is no bottom to the ditch they ware willing to dig themselves into.

The great thing about it, is that it causes the saints to truly know exactly what Scripture is saying and teaching in order to refute the lies.

It has been, and still is a truly great learning experience for me.

I choose to believe someone when they say something I know can be true about God. But when they are caught lying, I put them on ignore.

 

[robert derrick]

I choose to believe someone when they say something I know can be true about God. But when they are caught lying, I put them on ignore.

As God directs us, we must do. I'm called to teach the law, and so I learn the truth of the law by exposing through Scripture the lies of men about the God and His law.

However, once I do see someone is not serious with Scr4ipture, but only seeks his own justification by wresting them, then I no longer take them seriously, but only use them as case studies.

I no longer have any spiritual nor ministerial investment in them nor what they say.

 

[robert derrick]

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Death in Scripture as the wage for sinning is only for the soul, not the body.

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

'Whoso' is the person of the soul, not the body.

All bodies of flesh from the beginning were made mortal by God, with a living soul of man breathed therein. All creatures on earth made of flesh die by nature, being mortal with flesh and blood only:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Mortality cannot inherit immortality, because the flesh cannot give birth to the Spirit, nor the Spirit to the flesh.

The body will certainly die, being made mortal from the beginning, but the soul that lives and believes and obeys God shall never die, though it were once dead by sinning against God and our own soul.

The death of the body is nothing, because all flesh was made mortal to return to the earth.

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

The body does not wrong the soul, but only the soul wrongs itself.

All souls from the beginning are made alive by God and wrapped in mortal flesh and blood, which dies naturally when the spirit departs this earth.

A body of flesh born without the spirit is dead, being called stillborn, because flesh and blood themselves are nothing in themselves.

No soul is born with a sin nature, because there is no such thing as a sin spirit, much less was any body made with sin of the dust nor in the womb.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

When the soul gives itself to the natural body, then the natural man is made dead by sins and trespasses, so that like the body will return to the dust naturally, so the soul will go to hell contrary to God's gift of life in the lowest parts of the earth.

The natural man makes himself dust only, because the soul is dead and all that remains is the mortal dust of flesh and bone.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

When the soul repents, then the soul is made alive again, thus being born again, as a newborn babe from the womb: pure and clean and living with no sinning.

The mortal body is also quickened by the Spirit for healing and health:

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

The body is made mortal, and is nothing without the soul and spirit breathed into the womb of the mother.

 

[robert derrick]

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Proof that there is no sin in the body, but only the soul with the spirit. If sin were in the flesh, we would be warring against the flesh.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same.

Proof that Jesus Christ was made of the same flesh and blood, just like all men from the beginning in mortal bodies.

Jesus took part of mortal flesh and blood the very same as all men. Jesus had the same mortal flesh and blood of all creatures on earth from the dust and the womb.

Neither Adam nor Jesus were made of 'special' flesh and blood, since no flesh and blood is immortal and can become spirit and inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[robert derrick]

Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 5:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

Made sinners by Adam's example of sinning, and made obedient by His example of obedience: we are made sinner by sinning against God, and we made righteous by obeying God:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

In Scripture, we are what we do: them that doeth sin is a sinner, even as he that doeth righteousness is the righteous.

There is no sin nature nor spirit in Scripture, but only sinners sinning and the righteous doing righteousness.

Sin nature theology is false, and clinging to false traditions of men is why Scripture is not believed exactly as written.

All men were made sinners for all have sinned, not because any was born to sin.

 

[robert derrick]

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.

'By nature' in Scripture cannot be by birth, because no man does anything by birth, whether good or evil.

If any man does by nature from birth, as with a sin nature, then them which do the law by nature have done so by birth with a right nature.

And so, scripturally, to do by nature is by doing, not by being born, whether doing good or evil by nature of practice.

The newly created soul of God and babe in the womb can do nothing, least of all doing evil by sin nature given of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Made sinners by Adam's example of sinning, and made obedient by His example of obedience: we are made sinner by sinning against God, and we made righteous by obeying God:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

In Scripture, we are what we do: them that doeth sin is a sinner, even as he that doeth righteousness is the righteous.

There is no sin nature nor spirit in Scripture, but only sinners sinning and the righteous doing righteousness.

Sin nature theology is false, and clinging to false traditions of men is why Scripture is not believed exactly as written.

All men were made sinners for all have sinned, not because any was born to sin.

The reason why people sin, is because the law uncovered sin in them. They always sinned before the law, but didn't know it until the law.

 

[robert derrick]

The reason why people sin, is because the law uncovered sin in them. They always sinned before the law, but didn't know it until the law.

That is true, but they still did not ignorantly sin, until they did so ignorantly. ;)

And babies reflexively 'swiping' at the hand that feeds them don't rate is sinning ignorantly.

No sin nature, but only becoming sinners by nature by doing so naturally.

No soul is created by God dead with sin, and no babe is born a sinner by sin in the flesh.

I do appreciate your efforts of bringing in Scripture to honestly challenge the teaching. it is rare, and I know you put thought into it.

Thanks. I do the same for others. It's all about knowing the truth of Scripture correctly.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No sin nature, but only becoming sinners by nature by doing so naturally.

No sin nature, but only becoming sinners by nature by doing so naturally.

Whatever you do naturally is by your nature. Either sin nature, or born again divine nature.

 

[robert derrick]

Here is an example of one person (me) quoting another person (you) in the proper use of the "Quote" or "Reply" feature:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3
​

You have been corrected.

If in Scripture by nature means born with that nature, then by Scripture we see there must also be those born with righteous nature:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness.

And so we have those souls made and born with sin nature, and those souls made and born with righteous nature, if by nature in Scripture means being born that way.

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles.

And so, it also means Jews are circumcised by nature at birth: they are born circumcised.

By nature in Scripture does not mean born that way, but rather to become that way by doing it naturally.

The wisdom of God in Scripture is to have foreseen every lie of the devil that man could foolishly believe, and have His word written in such a manner as to expose them as such:

He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.