Not Born with Sin Nature

[robert derrick]

No sin nature, but only becoming sinners by nature by doing so naturally.

Whatever you do naturally is by your nature. Either sin nature, or born again divine nature.

You're moving in the right direction, slowly but surely. I appreciate your honest effort not to allow any belief to be undone quickly nor without consent of your own conscience.

Your first point at least agrees that only by doing, can we become naturally conformed to what we do, and not by being born with it: Adopting and adapting to a natural way of doing things.

And your third point is correct, that souls having sinned and become sinners by nature, we cannot then adopt and adapt the divine righteous nature by seeking to do so with our own will, but only by new birth of the Spirit, being born again new and clean and fresh as every babe from the womb:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1

And so, as sons of God we are to guard our purified souls and heart through obedience to the Spirit, that we may keep ourselves and our new divine nature from God, and not return to adopting and adapting to the old natural sinning of the old man.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

However, there is no sin nature in heaven nor in earth, but only sinners sinning like the devil, that sinned from the beginning, who was not made and created with a sin nature, neither Adam, nor any creature created by God on earth, including all babes from the womb.

You see, it's as simple as what is written and what is not: the divine nature is written, a sin nature is not, and so by Scripture we can rightly teach the divine nature, not a sin nature.

The truth of Scripture is that there is only one spiritual nature in heaven and earth, which is the divine nature of God, who creates all things for His good pleasure, not for sin but for righteousness' sake.

Jesus Christ is the Creator and Maker of all things, and He has given of His divine nature to whom He will, but He has never created nor made any creature, whether it be spirit or flesh, with a 'sin nature', and no such created being of spirit or flesh therefore can have a sin mature, which can only be by creation.

All nature is created, except the divine nature of God that is eternal.

Where therefore did a sin nature or spirit come from, if not from God? How was it created, if not by God? It is just assumed by man without Scripture, that a sin nature just 'came to pass', or 'came into being' of it's own accord.

Nothing, whether nature, spirit, principality, nor flesh comes to pass and into being, except it is created that way by God Himself Personally.

For there to be a sin nature that creatures are made and born with, then that would mean Jesus Christ, the Maker of all creatures by his light, would therefore be the Maker of sinful creatures from birth.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

God who is Light and in whom is no darkness at all, is the only One Creator and Maker of anything in heaven and in earth, and He has created all things, whether spirit or flesh for His good pleasure, and He has no pleasure in sin nor death:

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

He creates all things good in the beginning, and He has never created sin, a sin nature, nor spirit of sin.

God does not create anything that is not good in His creation, whether spirit or flesh, which included Lucifer and Adam, along with all ministering spirits and men.

The fact is, that to believe in the lie of there being a sin nature, which creatures are born with, is to believe there is another creator and maker of creatures in heaven or in earth, which includes that of souls and bodies of men.

And since it is a sin nature being created, then that would have to be the god of this world, who still so wants to be thought of and worshipped as a creator, especially the creator and maker of the sin nature, by which he makes and brings men into this world by birth to be dead in sin and enemies of God.

Since God is not a Creator of sinful beings, nor of a sin nature and spirit, and the devil is not a creator nor maker of anything, except a lie and is the father of it, then there is no created sin nature, whether of spirit or flesh.

And neither Adam nor any man, save Jesus Christ, certainly does not create his own nature, since man is a created being and not a creator himself. Neither did Jesus the God and Creator of all things create His own divine nature.

I know that this is purely 'doctrinal' with you, since you do not even believe you have a sin nature anymore, much less use it as excuse to keep on sinning, even as I.

If you have any Scripture whatsoever that says 'sin nature', as Scripture does say 'divine nature', or any creature being created and born with and partaking of a sin nature, as it speaks of partaking of the divine nature, then by all means quote it.

Or if you can see any flaw in the teaching above pertaining to Scripture quoted, then please show it.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Your first point at least agrees that only by doing, can we become naturally conformed to what we do, and not by being born with it: Adopting and adapting to a natural way of doing things.

And your third point is correct, that souls having sinned and become sinners by nature, we cannot then adopt and adapt the divine righteous nature by seeking to do so with our own will, but only by new birth of the Spirit, being born again new and clean and fresh as every babe from the womb:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1

And so, as sons of God we are to guard our purified souls and heart through obedience to the Spirit, that we may keep ourselves and our new divine nature from God, and not return to adopting and adapting to the old natural sinning of the old man.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Robert, being born again is not becoming like a human new born baby, unless you are talking about the one and only Jesus Christ. That is what you and I disagree with. You quote 1 John 3:7 "He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous" as if anyone without Christ can also be righteous if their own works are righteous. You don't seem to understand that since Adam, all came under Satan's rule. But sin was not imputed to them until the Ten Commandments were given. Then none were righteous. Romans 3:23 says, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Still God passed over their sins as the sacrifices merely covered them until the next year, but didn't take away their sin. Only through Jesus can our sins be taken away completely, even the whole desire to sin, making us sinless, so that the fruit of the Spirit can grow to maturity and we can eventually become perfect. That is another area we don't see eye to eye on - our nature.

Do you agree with any of what I've just said, even if you say it in another way? If so, I'd like to hear how you phrase it, brother.

 

[ScottA]

If in Scripture by nature means born with that nature, then by Scripture we see there must also be those born with righteous nature:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness.

And so we have those souls made and born with sin nature, and those souls made and born with righteous nature, if by nature in Scripture means being born that way.

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles.

And so, it also means Jews are circumcised by nature at birth: they are born circumcised.

By nature in Scripture does not mean born that way, but rather to become that way by doing it naturally.

The wisdom of God in Scripture is to have foreseen every lie of the devil that man could foolishly believe, and have His word written in such a manner as to expose them as such:

He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Your premise is completely off.

As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one. Romans 3:10
​

Paul was only making the point that, whether natural or from God, the law does not save.

The point of Ephesians 2:1-3...is rather that before being "made alive", all are dead, "by nature" a fallen race and bloodline descended from Adam:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3​

 

[robert derrick]

Your premise is completely off.

As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one. Romans 3:10
​

Paul was only making the point that, whether natural or from God, the law does not save.

The point of Ephesians 2:1-3...is rather that before being "made alive", all are dead, "by nature" a fallen race and bloodline descended from Adam:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3​

Since you are certainly by confession one of the continued unrighteous on earth, then you can continue speaking for yourself, and show how you justify yourself in it.

You are a case study of strong delusion.

As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one. Romans 3:10

You continue to be one of the none by choice.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

the law does not save.

Only doing the law outwardly saves no man. To be saints obedient to the faith of Jesus, we must first obey Him within the heart, so as to be pure as He is pure. Only then can our works can be justified of God by doing the righteousness of His law, not in flesh only, but in deed and in truth with a pure heart:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

So long as you seek to do anything good and right outwardly, without first being purified inwardly, then you continue to be an unrighteous blind Pharisee only.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.

Like your Pharisees fathers, you are blind to the truth of Scripture and what the Spirit says to the churches, because you continue with a corrupted heart of lust, while yet trying to appear good in sight of men.

The only difference between you and your fathers, is that you actually preach against doing the law to be justified with God, while they trusted in doing the law outwardly only for justification with God.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

all are dead, "by nature" a fallen race and bloodline descended from Adam.

Being unclean of soul and corrupted of heart willfully, you continue like your fathers to trust in your own tradition, for the sake of justifying yourself in your unrighteousness.

All souls are become dead in this life, for all have sinned, not for all are born dead with sin. And you are still dead, because you are still sinning.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

You like being dead in your sins and trespasses, which is why you hate Scripture of truth and refuse to read it as written:

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

This mysterious 'fallen race and bloodline' you speak of is not from the physical Adam of Scripture, but an alien spiritual adam of your own making.

Like your great mother mystery Babylon, you choose to believe in Marvel fiction, rather than only what is written in Scripture.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

The only thing you have in common with the Adam of Scripture is that of all unrepentant sinners on earth: a physical seed and blood, and a spiritual refusal to confess and repent of your sinning with the flesh.

Once again. There is no effort here to correct you personally, because you are past correcting. Just keep the delusion coming for my records.

Thanks.

 

[ScottA]

Since you are certainly by confession one of the continued unrighteous on earth, then you can continue speaking for yourself, and show how you justify yourself in it.

You are a case study of strong delusion.

Delusion is a fact from Christ. But you have not accurately understood the purpose of it, that what men have meant for evil, God has meant for good. And it is very important (for you) that you understand that this is the greatest issue. I will address everything you mentioned below. But it is your outlook on "the continued unrighteous on earth" that is the problem. Your outlook on this--is that strong delusion:

You and the many have been distracted by the details of sin and offences, which in and of themselves--you are correct. So I am not calling you out on your inclination and righteous response to our current circumstances of how to deal with such sin--not at all. But rather, it is the foundation upon which you bring this righteous response, which is in error--which is not your error, except that you continue to build upon that foundation. That foundation and that error began immediately following Christ's ascension and the response of those who did not even believe what had occurred until He made Himself visible to them--even the apostles. Listen very carefully--Jesus' account with Thomas is what I am referring to--it is the very issue that caused the error you now struggle with. The principle of "doubting" Thomas was prophetic regarding these times. Please read the account of it again.​

What occurred with Thomas has now become what has occurred with the many of these times: Those who do not see Him do not see Him first, but last--as was the case with Thomas; and only those who do not see Him but believe--they see Him first.

This issue has resulted in a doctrinal foundation based on unbelief, just as Thomas did not believe until he saw--which is not what one would think. Or as Jesus said, not as you "expect." Matthew 24:44

In that account of Thomas, Jesus came "quickly" (but not so quickly to those who's belief required a fleshly encounter). Which was followed by what He also said that "must shortly take place." Revelation 1:1 - Revelation 22:6 Very important: Notice these verses are set like bookends for the entire book of Revelation. This is the truth of what I am telling you--what is written regarding this issue. This is not my opinion.

Thus, what followed was those of the early church who did not see Jesus return in the flesh, put off to the future what had already occurred. The details of this are many--but the point is that those who did not see Jesus return in the flesh began to build a doctrine based on doubt, which is the lie that caused the great delusion that was foretold. That lie...is that He did not come "quickly", and all that He said would not "shortly take place." But rather, that ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ Matthew 24:48

And 2,000 years later we are still arguing about it.

I suggest you make a study of what I have just told you...and then we can talk again. Or you can hold to the lie that, that which was not seen but promised, did not occur as Jesus foretold.

You continue to be one of the none by choice.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You misunderstand the times.

I could just as easily say the same verse against your own position--it is the truth of what I am telling you:

As Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6

But, like Thomas, you have only been referring to that which is born of the flesh--and what is seen. I have been referring to both.​

Only doing the law outwardly saves no man. To be saints obedient to the faith of Jesus, we must first obey Him within the heart, so as to be pure as He is pure. Only then can our works can be justified of God by doing the righteousness of His law, not in flesh only, but in deed and in truth with a pure heart:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

So long as you seek to do anything good and right outwardly, without first being purified inwardly, then you continue to be an unrighteous blind Pharisee only.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.

Like your Pharisees fathers, you are blind to the truth of Scripture and what the Spirit says to the churches, because you continue with a corrupted heart of lust, while yet trying to appear good in sight of men.

The only difference between you and your fathers, is that you actually preach against doing the law to be justified with God, while they trusted in doing the law outwardly only for justification with God.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Hearts that are holy given to Christ, are no longer theirs, but His, and are righteous just as He is righteous--against whom, there is no law. We can do nothing.

But this I say, knowing that you do not see the clear distinction that "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Being unclean of soul and corrupted of heart willfully, you continue like your fathers to trust in your own tradition, for the sake of justifying yourself in your unrighteousness.

All souls are become dead in this life, for all have sinned, not for all are born dead with sin. And you are still dead, because you are still sinning.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

You like being dead in your sins and trespasses, which is why you hate Scripture of truth and refuse to read it as written:

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

This mysterious 'fallen race and bloodline' you speak of is not from the physical Adam of Scripture, but an alien spiritual adam of your own making.

Like your great mother mystery Babylon, you choose to believe in Marvel fiction, rather than only what is written in Scripture.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

The only thing you have in common with the Adam of Scripture is that of all unrepentant sinners on earth: a physical seed and blood, and a spiritual refusal to confess and repent of your sinning with the flesh.

Once again. There is no effort here to correct you personally, because you are past correcting. Just keep the delusion coming for my records.

Thanks.

No one born [again] of the spirit of God is "unclean of soul and corrupted of heart willfully." You misunderstand all that has come with Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Delusion is a fact from Christ. But you have not accurately understood the purpose of it, that what men have meant for evil, God has meant for good. And it is very important (for you) that you understand that I will address everything you mentioned below--but this is the greatest issue. That is, your outlook on "the continued unrighteous on earth." Your outlook on this--is that strong delusion:

You and the many have been distracted by the details of sin and offences, which in and of themselves--you are correct. So I am not calling you out on your inclination and righteous response to our current circumstances of how to deal with such sin--not at all. But rather, it is the foundation upon which you bring this righteous response which is in error--which is not your error, except for continuing upon such a foundation. That foundation and that error began immediately following Christ's ascension and the response of those who did not even believe what had occurred until He made Himself visible to them--even the apostles. Listen very carefully--the account with Thomas is what I am referring to--it is the very issue that caused the error you now struggle with. The principle of "doubting" Thomas was prophetic regarding these times. Please read the account of it again.​

What occurred with Thomas has now become what has occurred with the many of these times: Those who do not see Him do not see Him first, but last, and only those who do not see Him but believe--they see Him first (But many who are first will be last, and the last first).

This issue has resulted in a doctrinal foundation based on unbelief, just as Thomas did not believe until he saw--which is not what one would think. Or as Jesus said, not as you "expect." Matthew 24:44

In that account of Thomas, Jesus came "quickly" (but not to those who's belief required a fleshly encounter). Which was followed by what He also said that "must shortly take place." Revelation 1:1 - Revelation 22:6 Very important: Notice these verses are set like bookends for the entire book of Revelation. This is the truth of what I am telling you--what is written regarding this issue. This is not my opinion.

Thus, what followed was those who did not see Jesus return in the flesh, put off to the future what had already occurred. The details of this are many--but the point is that those who did not see Jesus return in the flesh began to build a doctrine based on doubt, which is the lie that caused the great delusion that was foretold. That lie...is that He did not come "quickly", and all that He said would not "shortly take place." But rather, that ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ Matthew 24:48

And 2,000 years later we are still arguing about it.

I suggest you make a study of what I have just told you...and then we can talk again. Or you can hold to that which was not seen but promised.



You misunderstand the times.

I could as easily offered the save verse against your own position--it is the truth of what I am telling you:

As Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6

But, like Thomas, you have only been referring to that which is born of the flesh--and what is seen. I have been referring to both.​

Hearts that are holy given to Christ, are no longer theirs, but His, and righteous as He is righteous--against whom, there is no law. We can do nothing.

But this I say, knowing that you do not see the clear distinction that "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

No one born [again] of the spirit of God is "unclean of soul and corrupted of heart willfully." You misunderstand all that has come with Christ.

That's a whole lot of words to justify continuing in your sins.

The details of this are many--but the point is that those who did not see Jesus return in the flesh began to build a doctrine based on doubt, which is the lie that caused the great delusion that was foretold.

This is false teaching, because it is not what is written in Scripture, where Strong delusion is written of:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Here is how to teach Scripture as written. Strong delusion is:

1. For them that love not the truth of Scripture.

2. They do not want to be saved according to the truth of Scripture.

3. They instead are willing to believe a lie of strong delusion contrary to the truth of Scripture.

4. The lie is to continue in pleasures of unrighteous sins, and not be damned like all sinners.

Simple. OSAS 101.

It has nothing to do with waiting on the Lord's return, nor Him coming quickly, nor any such teaching 'based upon doubt', and has everything to do with another gospel than is written in Scripture, based upon what is no doubt a lie: that Christians can be sinners unconditionally saved by grace through their own faith only.

But, like Thomas, you have only been referring to that which is born of the flesh--and what is seen. I have been referring to both.

I refer to both inward and outward purity of life, which is walking in the Spirit with a pure heart.

You refer to inward things only, while yet walking after the flesh bodily.

Such inward things only are as corrupt as faith only is dead.

Faith seen bodily without inward purity is appearances only, and inward faith seen bodily is righteousness and peace in Christ Jesus.

Hearts that are holy given to Christ, are no longer theirs, but His, and righteous as He is righteous--against whom, there is no law. We can do nothing.

Once again, this has nothing to do with Scripture as written. This is nothing but sinners trying to sound spiritual, and thinking they are humble by acknowledging they are still sinners and can do nothing about it.

Which is the exact opposite of what is written:

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Saying we are given new hearts, that our not 'ours', but 'only His', is dystopian spirit-speak. And it is used solely for the purpose of thinking to be righteous as He is righteous, without need of doing His righteousness in soul and body, even as He did in the days of His flesh.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Instead of believing all things are possible with God and do it, they will keep saying: We can do nothing about sinning.

No one born [again] of the spirit of God is "unclean of soul and corrupted of heart willfully."

All sin begins with lust in the heart, and if we sin willfully, it is by willfully lusting with the heart: sinners cannot have clean souls and pure hearts.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

God is not commanding the heathen to do, what He does not command His own people to do: we are commanded to cast out all thoughts for sin, and to keep them out, that we may sin no more with the flesh:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Saints in Christ Jesus keep their souls clean and guard their hearts against every thought for sin, lest the lust of the world enter in again, and they sin again with the flesh.

The strongest delusion of all OSAS is Dual Nature Theology: they believe their souls are preserved forever pure and blameless in heavenly places, while their mortal bodies back on earth continue sinning as all sinners do.

They believe the lie that their soul no longer dies, though they continue committing sins, because it is now only their bodies that do so.

And so, they declare contrary to Scripture, that their saved souls and new pure hearts can no longer be corrupted by the sins of the body, because they are no longer held accountable for the deeds of the flesh.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

No doubt they would also declare they are not condemned for sinning, so long as they don't enjoy it while doing it.

 

[ScottA]

That's a whole lot of words to justify continuing in your sins.

Yes, and worthy of its own reply:

That which has been a mystery for millennia and still not understood by most, I have told you not in many words, but few.

 

[ScottA]

I see you still have not learned to use the "Quote" function correctly.

The details of this are many--but the point is that those who did not see Jesus return in the flesh began to build a doctrine based on doubt, which is the lie that caused the great delusion that was foretold. That lie...is that He did not come "quickly", and all that He said would not "shortly take place." But rather, that ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ Matthew 24:48

This is false teaching, because it is not what is written in Scripture, where Strong delusion is written of:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Here is how to teach Scripture as written. Strong delusion is:

1. For them that love not the truth of Scripture.
2. They do not want to be saved according to the truth of Scripture.
3. They instead are willing to believe a lie of strong delusion contrary to the truth of Scripture.
4. The lie is to continue in pleasures of unrighteous sins, and not be damned like all sinners.

1. Yes, for them who prefer things in writing on tablets, rather than in Spirit.
2. Yes, they prefer the flesh and what is seen, as opposed to what is unseen (God).
3. Yes, yes, as it is now apparent and a reality.
4. Yes, those who "after coming to know of God, or rather are known by God...turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which they desire again to be in bondage" rather than allowing Christ complete access, that it should be "not them who live, but He who lives in them."

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." --You have defined the one and I have defined the other.

Simple. OSAS 101.

It has nothing to do with waiting on the Lord's return, nor Him coming quickly, nor any such teaching 'based upon doubt', and has everything to do with another gospel than is written in Scripture, based upon what is no doubt a lie: that Christians can be sinners unconditionally saved by grace through their own faith only.

You have disqualified yourself to speak regarding the Spirit...nor have you even perceived that what I have told you is what is written.

Nor have you even heard the clarification that OSAS is not about "Christians can be sinners," when you have been told it is not--but rather, that "it is no longer them who live, but Christ who lives", which scripture you reject.

It is enough. So shall you receive. I leave you to it.

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, and worthy of its own reply:

That which has been a mystery for millennia and still not understood by most, I have told you not in many words, but few.

Your take on the mystery is wrong, since it is only to excuse sinning as a Christian, and also because there's nothing mysterious about it, as I have shown by simple teaching of what is actually written.

Except of course it be the mystery of iniquity, which is why a soul would ever choose committing sin rather than loving God, especially souls that name His name and refuse to depart from their iniquity.

That is a mystery that no man can answer, because even God can't understand it.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

We make our hearts corrupt with lust by sinning, not by being born with lust in the heart: there is nothing sinful nor spiritual about physical seed of man nor any living creature on earth.

The only spiritual seed is Christ, or that of the devil: lust.

And we make our hearts new and pure by obeying His Spirit within, so that our brother Jesus gives us a heart like unto His own.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[robert derrick]

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

No natural body is made dead by sin of the soul, nor is any natural body judged dead for sin by the soul.

All natural bodies made of dust, were made mortal by God in the beginning to return to the dust.

And all souls made by God from the beginning are made living by His Spirit int he lowest parts of the earth.

Both the first and the second Adam dwelt in mortal flesh, the first from the dust of the earth by the Lord's own hands, and the second from the physical seed of David in the womb of Mary.

Living souls die if they sin, and mortal bodies die, because they were made that way by God in the beginning, like all living creatures on earth.

Every soul born into the world in mortal body is first born living and without sin.

Jesus Christ is the only man on earth in mortal body that remained alive without sinning, until the natural death of His body, when His Spirit left it hanging on the cross.

Jesus Christ is therefore the only firstborn from the dead: the only man departing the world as He was first born into the world: without sin and without sinning.

And so He is the only One to be raised from the dead even as He was first born into the world: all other raised from the dead with Him, are only raised by being born again.

He came into the world first born as every other man, but He left this world like no other man that sinned: as He was first born pure and clean from sin and sinning.

All others in Christ are born again as they were first born into the world: again being without sin, by past sins being washed clean in His blood.

This time to live through Jesus in the flesh, even as He lived inbt he days of His flesh: without sin and without sinning unto the natural death of the mortal body.

When we drink the blood of Jesus, by obeying His Spirit within the heart and body, we are made new creatures in Christ, and brethren of the firstborn from the dead: He being raised from the dead, even as He was first born into the world, and we being raised from the dead being born again, even as when we were first born into the world.

And so we are the church of the firstborn, which is Jesus Christ from the dead, which is us being born again from the dead in sins and trespasses.

Being born again, we all become again as we were first born into the world pure and clean without sin, yet this second time, even as the second Adam, we are born of His word with knowledge to do good and not evil:

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

As babes in Christ, we become as Jesus the babe firstborn of a virgin into a wicked world, yet without sin, and even as He grew in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord not to sin, so do we.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

We are brethren of the only firstborn man not to sin unto death of the body, not because we sinned not as He, after being first born into the world without sin, but because we go and sin not as He, after being born again pure and clean as He.

None first born into the world are with sin, but all living souls that have come into the world have sinned, save One, and through His birth, we become His sign as being born by virgin, even heavenly Jerusalem: born again not to sin again as we all did once as sinners, after being first born into the world without sin.

 

[ScottA]

Your take on the mystery is wrong, since it is only to excuse sinning as a Christian, and also because there's nothing mysterious about it, as I have shown by simple teaching of what is actually written.

Except of course it be the mystery of iniquity, which is why a soul would ever choose committing sin rather than loving God, especially souls that name His name and refuse to depart from their iniquity.

That is a mystery that no man can answer, because even God can't understand it.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

We make our hearts corrupt with lust by sinning, not by being born with lust in the heart: there is nothing sinful nor spiritual about physical seed of man nor any living creature on earth.

The only spiritual seed is Christ, or that of the devil: lust.

And we make our hearts new and pure by obeying His Spirit within, so that our brother Jesus gives us a heart like unto His own.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

You are like Israel who crucified the Messiah in spite of all their claims of knowledge which had come to not.

As I said, So be it. It is enough. I am through with you.

 

[robert derrick]

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jesus Christ is the Maker and Creator of all things, from the blades of grass, to the living creatures, to the souls of man: All were and are made good and living by Him.

And man and woman are made living souls in His image: God's image is not sin, He does not make souls in the image of the devil, nor does the devil Make and Create anything, except a lie, and is the father of the lie against God as the Maker and Creator of sinful souls and bodies on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

And so, no man comes into the world with the darkness of sin, but only lightened by Jesus Christ.

And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Jesus Christ does all things well, and makes all things new, which does not include anything of sin.

Jesus Christ makes all things good, well, and new by His light coming into the world from the womb, and He has Himself come into the world in the flesh and died on the cross, to make souls good and well and new again.

We are born again by the Spirit as in the beginning of our making: as newborn living babes from the womb, but the second time with knowledge to choose the evil and refuse the good.

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby.

Scripture of God does not command us to be as newborn babes with sin nature.

 

[robert derrick]

Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.

Jesus coming in the flesh, so that He came even as us, means He came in mortal flesh, as ours, not only spirit appearing as in mortal flesh, nor as a spirit in immortal body, as though already resurrected.

He was in mortal flesh when He hungered, else He would not have hungered to starvation.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

He ate in immortal flesh and bones, not out of hunger, but out of choice to show He was indeed still flesh and bone, and not just spirit, howbeit immortal.

The mortal flesh and bones of Jesus as a man on earth was no more sinful nor immortal and than any other man's flesh and bones, else he could not be our example of living for God through Spirit from the heart.

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Now we are His mortal flesh and bones, to live even as He did in the days of His mortal flesh and bones.

Christian sinners only to want idealize His life as a man, not to live the same as He did, and so they say our flesh is born of sin, while His was not, but was immortal, until He bare our sins on the cross.

Adam transgressing proves we all have the same mortal flesh, else we would say he did not sin like Jesus, because he had immortal body not born with sin.

Being born with sin nature, with sin in the flesh is a lie to justify faith only salvation without works, to go on still in sins and trespasses in the flesh.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert, being born again is not becoming like a human new born baby, unless you are talking about the one and only Jesus Christ.

False:

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby. (1 Peter 2)

Every soul is made specially by Jesus Christ through the Spirit of God: living. Every flesh in the womb of every creature on earth is the same: mortal.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. (Rom 1)

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. (2 Tim 2)

The body of Jesus was made of the physical seed of David in the mortal flesh of Mary's womb. The virgin birth was a sign that God does not need man to accomplish His will on earth. It was not to avoid sinful seed of man. Man's physical seed and the flesh it produces is no more sinful than that of any other living creature on earth, nor the grass itself

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away. (1 Peter 1)

When we are born again of God's Spirit, that is exactly what it means: we are souls once more born of God and living, even as in the beginning.

And so we only enter into the kingdom of God by becoming as little children that have yet to sin after the manner of men and women: living souls in mortal flesh with purified conscience...once again.

Jesus came into this world with mortal body just like every other, including the first Adam, except that Adam's was made by the hand of the Lord from dust itself. Since then every living soul made by Christ has been wrapped int he womb of a woman with mortal flesh.

The only and only thing about the man Jesus, is that He is the Living Soul and Eternal Being of God. Our souls were made living by Him in the lowest parts of the earth, and made living again by His faith on earth.

You quote 1 John 3:7 "He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous" as if anyone without Christ can also be righteous if their own works are righteous.

Where did I ever say that any man could do God's righteousness and be justified with God, without the faith, Spirit, and power of Jesus Christ Himself dwelling within first?

The error of the religious is to seek to do righteously and please God by their own faith and the power of their own will:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Otherwise, We agree completely on the fruit of being born again, with cleansed soul, purified heart, and renewed mind of the Spirit, whereby we the outside of the platter may also be clean.

 

[robert derrick]

To say we are made and born with sin nature is the accusation against God, that James rebuked:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

It is the Word and God who Makes and Creates all souls and living creatures on earth, not man nor the devil.

Therefore the accusation is against God for creating man with sin to be born of a sin nature.

And so, it would be God who is tempting His creatures to sin by making them with sin nature: The physical seed does not produce of it's own accord and power, but it is God who gives it power and life to create living creatures and man on earth.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Like Lucifer, every man is created perfectly alive by God, but it is only when man allows lust in his heart, like Lucifer did and became the devil, so does man then become children of the devil: to do evil and not good only.

 

[Episkopos]

To say we are made and born with sin nature is the accusation against God, that James rebuked:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

It is the Word and God who Makes and Creates all souls and living creatures on earth, not man nor the devil.

Therefore the accusation is against God for creating man with sin to be born of a sin nature.

And so, it would be God who is tempting His creatures to sin by making them with sin nature: The physical seed does not produce of it's own accord and power, but it is God who gives it power and life to create living creatures and man on earth.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Like Lucifer, every man is created perfectly alive by God, but it is only when man allows lust in his heart, like Lucifer did and became the devil, so does man then become children of the devil: to do evil and not good only.

This is false. We are not born into God's presence....at least almost all of us are not. We develop in a life that is independent from God. And we have an outer covering (sinful) that develops in very early childhood. One day, if you have children, you will experience this sin nature developing before your very eyes. (the terrible twos some call it)

Lucifer cannot repent since he lives in eternal reality. We, on the other hand know nothing of eternal reality...we live in a temporal reality that is only a simulation of the eternal reality. We are here to learn God's ways...although few will do so. Being born again is only a SAMPLE of eternal reality. To enter into the spiritual realm of the kingdom costs us everything. If we sin there, we fall back into the simulation for more training. We are translated into eternal reality to walk in the victory of Christ when God allows us to take on such a heavy responsibility.

 

[robert derrick]

This is false. We are not born into God's presence....

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace.

This applies to every living soul created by God and new born into the world: not just in His presence, but Personally by His Spirit and Christ.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And we have an outer covering (sinful) that develops in very early childhood. One day, if you have children, you will experience this sin nature developing before your very eyes. (the terrible twos some call it)

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

The flesh is grass and as grass: mortal flesh of any living creature on earth is neither righteous nor sinful.

Sinful flesh is not the flesh's sinfulness, but is sinning in the flesh. It's the act of committing sin with flesh. It's souls walking sinfully in the flesh.

One day, if you have children, you will experience this sin nature developing before your very eyes. (the terrible twos some call it)

The 'terrible twos' is what Scripture calls wretched double mindedness of two hearts: Souls divide themselves from God by sinning.

Jesus Christ has never created a sin nature nor spirit, but only spiritual beings who make themselves sinful at heart.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Lucifer cannot repent since he lives in eternal reality.

Lucifer like all spiritual beings that rebel against God by sinning, live in an eternal lie: the soul which sinneth shall not die.

Many double hearted Christians believe and teach it to themselves.

The lie of course ends at last judgment.

Lucifer cannot repent nor be saved, because he does not have a soul to do so. Angels are spiritual beings with spiritual bodies only: Only Man is made in the image of God and Christ, which is Soul, Spirit, and Body.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

There is no 'reality' as opposed to 'unreality'. Nor is there an eternal vs temporal 'reality': there is only the truth of God and His creation.

All spiritual beings are immortal, and only natural man in mortal body thinks to deny it. And there are even more foolish men that vainly imagine an alternate' reality' to the truth.

Eternal truth is simply immortal souls made flesh, but only them in Christ Jesus have His eternal life forever, while them that die by sinning unto the end will continue in immortal death and separation from God as wandering stars in the blackness of darkness forever.

We, on the other hand know nothing of eternal reality...we live in a temporal reality that is only a simulation of the eternal reality..

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

You see how your philosophizing as led you into acknowledging you know not Christ, Who is the true God and eternal life, nor have any fellowship with Hm?

 

[robert derrick]

Lucifer cannot repent since he lives in eternal reality. We, on the other hand know nothing of eternal reality...

This is meaningless mysticism? The search for some great 'mystery of reality'.

There is nothing 'simulated' anywhere. What any spiritual being thinks and imagines, whether angels or men, is the truth of what that spirit is:

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

We are here to learn God's ways...although few will do so.

We are not hearers and learners only, but doers of the one way of Jesus today, to live and walk in in Steps, even as He did in the days of His flesh:

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Being born again is only a SAMPLE of eternal reality.

There is no sample of being born again, nor of having and knowing eternal life: we either are or we aren't.

The pure in heart know eternal life, now and forever:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

To enter into the spiritual realm of the kingdom costs us everything.

True. The cost is ourselves as sinners: all our unrighteous thoughts and deeds in the flesh must be crucified by the power and Spirit of Christ dwelling within us:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

It costs us being our own spiritual being, to think our own unrighteous thoughts and to live with sinning: Sons of God no longer put up with sinning, neither in thought nor in deed.

Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Spiritual purity is the kingdom of God: first as newborn babes from the womb, and then again as newborn babes in Christ Jesus:

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

We are translated into eternal reality to walk in the victory of Christ when God allows us to take on such a heavy responsibility.

God does not 'allow us' to take on anything: He commands us to take up our cross, put on Christ, and take on the whole armor of God.

We don't 'graduate' into the full kingdom and victory of Christ: there is no 'learning curve' by will of man: we are either overcoming as He overcame, or not.

We either have a pure heart guarded for His name's sake, or not.

We are translated immediately as newborn babes fresh from the mother's womb.

Until then, we are hearers only, and not doing the word rightly with a pure heart.

When we with the heart turn to Christ for help in time of need to purify the soul by the power of Christ: that is when we will be given power and Spirit to do so and be immediately translated from darkness to Light, and so to enter into His true kingdom: the vail of unrighteous thoughts and imaginations is done away perfectly at once.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

And this time being newborn, we learn to stay there. We don't get there by learning, but by believing and doing it:

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

If we sin there, we fall back into the simulation for more training.

By sinning we fall from grace and are dead to God in sins and trespasses again.

We don't train not to sin, we just sin not:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Where no law is, there is no transgression, and where no lust is, there is no enticement to transgress, and where no enticing is, there is no sinning: If we purify the heart, and the life will be pure.

Simple and easy in Christ Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

Your premise is completely off.

As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one. Romans 3:10
​

Paul was only making the point that, whether natural or from God, the law does not save.

These Scriptures always begin with: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

If you want to apply it to yourself, then that is your error, not mine.

Many do the same with Romans 7, in applying to all believers what is only for the wretched double minded, who are still carnal and sold under sin.

The point made is that the natural man who believes not God, can do nothing to please God, because without faith it is impossible to please God.

And so, without God and His faith in the heart, no man can do any good or righteousness of God: works without faith are unjustified by Christ, even as faith without works is dead within.

Only in the garden and at the cross, was this true for every soul on earth, since Adam and Eve were the only souls on earth when they sinned, and even the believers were concluded in unbelief at the cross, when they all forsook Him as he prophesied they would.

The point of Ephesians 2:1-3...is rather that before being "made alive", all are dead, "by nature" a fallen race and bloodline descended from Adam:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3​

I've already corrected this Marvel Comics alien race theory. You do not even acknowledge the points made, so I'll not be just a sounding board for your tradition.