John Calvin and Calvinism.

[praise_yeshua]

when i am attacked, especially by so called “true christians”, i am reminded of Acts 5 where the apostles rejoiced for “suffering disgrace” for Jesus. I am ok with the false converts attacking me on here, trying to discredit everything i say. It tells me and shows others that i am firm in my belief.

Acts 5 doesn't have anything about Calvinists in it. I looked. What verse?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Acts 5 doesn't have anything about Calvinists in it. I looked. What verse?

acts 5:41

 

[reformed1689]

I have to wonder how long till us calvinists start getting lumped in with the non-christian groups? I worry about that too because if the non-calvinists get their way, it’ll mean even more false converts at churches. The absolute truth needs to be taught, we have an epidemic of false converts in the church today. One only need read this forum to see that.

when i am attacked, especially by so called “true christians”, i am reminded of Acts 5 where the apostles rejoiced for “suffering disgrace” for Jesus. I am ok with the false converts attacking me on here, trying to discredit everything i say. It tells me and shows others that i am firm in my belief.

so what is calvinism?? Obviously, majority of folks dont know, and they prove it everyday. Heres a real quick understanding;
“Calvinism is a way to explain the relationship between the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of humanity in relationship to salvation. To summarize, Calvinists believe that: (1) humanity is absolutely corrupt, spiritually dead, and unable to come to God for salvation on its own, (2) God sovereignly elects/chooses certain people to be saved, (3) Jesus' death was only for those whom God chose, (4) all those whom God has chosen will eventually come to God in faith, and (5) those whom God has chosen will persevere in the faith (cannot lose salvation).”

hard to get any more precise or easier to understand.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[praise_yeshua]

acts 5:41

Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Do you believe in "time travel"? I don't see how a Calvinist could have been here. Can you explain?

 

[reformed1689]

Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Do you believe in "time travel"? I don't see how a Calvinist could have been here. Can you explain?

Because Calvinist (soteriology) just means biblical Christian. All of the Apostles were Calvinist Soteriology

 

[praise_yeshua]

Because Calvinist (soteriology) just means biblical Christian. All of the Apostles were Calvinist Soteriology

That is "conflation" at its best.

Calvinists didn't exist in the time of Acts 5:41. That is nothing more than "wishful thinking".....

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

That is "conflation" at its best.

Calvinists didn't exist in the time of Acts 5:41. That is nothing more than "wishful thinking".....

the apostles spread the same exact message that calvin wrote about. From election, to perseverance of the saints.

 

[reformed1689]

That is "conflation" at its best.

Calvinists didn't exist in the time of Acts 5:41. That is nothing more than "wishful thinking".....

No Calvin didn't exist, the truth did. That's why you should focus on Calvin.

 

[praise_yeshua]

the apostles spread the same exact message that calvin wrote about. From election, to perseverance of the saints.

Nope. Not even close. Paul "plowed the ground".....

1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.


If ALL the elect are going to "come" like you Calvinist claim.... then why did Paul sacrifice so much to "plow the ground" for the seed of the Gospel?

You're not like the apostles.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No Calvin didn't exist, the truth did. That's why you should focus on Calvin.

I thought you didn't care what Calvin said, now you're caring again.....

You're all over the place.

Calvin isn't synonymous with Truth. With error.... certainly.

Mat 23:3 but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Nope. Not even close. Paul "plowed the ground".....

1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.


If ALL the elect are going to "come" like you Calvinist claim.... then why did Paul sacrifice so much to "plow the ground" for the seed of the Gospel?

You're not like the apostles.

because Jesus commanded His word be spread to all nations and tongues. And yes, all of the elect will be saved. Paul went from a terrible persecutor of Jesus to becoming, in my opinion, the greatest theologian ever. No disrespect to peter or john or james, they are great too. But paul’s writings are simply amazing to read. And by reading calvin’s writings, it is clear he too had a great appreciation for paul.

 

[praise_yeshua]

because Jesus commanded His word be spread to all nations and tongues. And yes, all of the elect will be saved. Paul went from a terrible persecutor of Jesus to becoming, in my opinion, the greatest theologian ever. No disrespect to peter or john or james, they are great too. But paul’s writings are simply amazing to read. And by reading calvin’s writings, it is clear he too had a great appreciation for paul.

You're not dealing with what I said..... If what Paul did MADE A DIFFERENCE.... then your appeal to "God dragging" people to himself is nonsense.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You're not dealing with what I said..... If what Paul did MADE A DIFFERENCE.... then your appeal to "God dragging" people to himself is nonsense.

God doesnt drag anyone. He regenerated them, then their faith in Him makes them come running of their own will to Him. God uses us to spread His word, and show His greatness by our good fruit, which only can be done with the Holy Spirit in us.

 

[reformed1689]

I thought you didn't care what Calvin said, now you're caring again.....

You're all over the place.

Calvin isn't synonymous with Truth. With error.... certainly.

Mat 23:3 but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I meant should NOT focus on Calvin. I mistyped.

 

[Grailhunter]

I have to wonder how long till us Calvinists start getting lumped in with the non-christian groups?

If someone goes that far they are doing something that is above their paygrade.
Then again Branch Davidians---David Koresh Charles Taze Russell---Jehovah's Witnesses and Jim Jones are / where Christians, not good company.

 

[reformed1689]

If someone goes that far they are doing something that is above their paygrade.
Then again Branch Davidians---David Koresh Charles Taze Russell---Jehovah's Witnesses and Jim Jones are / where Christians, not good company.

No, JW, JJ, etc, they were NOT Christians.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

If someone goes that far they are doing something that is above their paygrade.
Then again Branch Davidians---David Koresh Charles Taze Russell---Jehovah's Witnesses and Jim Jones are / where Christians, not good company.

if it were up to the majority of this forum, us calvinists would be labeled as heretics and treated as lepers. How long till it happens in real life?? And as for you grail, thats exactly the kind of thing i would expect out of you, to head up the removal of us calvinists.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, JW, JJ, etc, they were NOT Christians.

Well I am not going to agree with you entirely, but you are in the group that follows a man.

 

[reformed1689]

Well I am not going to agree with you entirely, but you are in the group that follows a man.

No, I am not. You realize just because I am labeled a Calvinist does NOT mean I follow Calvin right? If that is the best you got you might as well quit posting.

 

[PinSeeker]

Salvation is the work of God...

It certainly is. One might wonder why someone who acknowledges this would spend so much time refuting it (trying to, at least).

...in Jesus Christ...

Nope. It is the work of God in man. And, "He who (begins) a good work in (man) will bring it to completion at the day of Christ" (Philippians 1:6). Jesus Christ, even in His hypostatically unified state, was never in need of salvation. He even said, He is the way, the truth, and the life. Right? Surely you would agree with that. No? You acknowledged that before, right?

...to exalt the Son above all things.

Christ was always and will always be preeminent in all things (Colossians 1). All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made (John 1). And from Him and through Him and to Him are all things (Romans 11). I'm... pretty sure... you acknowledged this before. So He was never in need of exaltation, except to say that in relation to the human state/nature He took on, for man's sake.

Yes, "(t)herefore God has highly exalted Him..." (from His human state after His "having humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross") "...and bestowed on him the name that is above every name..." for sure. Even Christ prayed to the Father to glorify Him in the Father's own presence with the glory that He (Christ) had with Him (the Father) before the world existed (John 17:5)... from all eternity. This passage from Philippians 2 also gives the simple reason why God does anything and everything He does, which is to bring glory to Himself ("...to the glory of God the Father"; v.11).

Any man can avail themselves of the message of the Gospel.

Yes, everyone is eligible, but still, God has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and compassion on whom He will have compassion. The strong implication is that He will not have mercy on compassion for... at least some. Those who will "avail themselves of the Gospel" are those who will call upon the name of the Lord, and those who do call upon the name of the Lord are those whom the Lord calls... will only do so ~ of their own free will and accord ~ because the Lord calls them. Everyone loves that word 'whosoever' from John 3:16 and 'everyone' from Romans 10:13. What many don't realize is that both John and Paul are drawing from what the prophet Joel writes in Joel 2:32:

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls."​

Again, the ones who willingly and freely call on the name of the LORD shall be saved. But the ones who do this are the ones whom the Lord calls... they will do so because the Lord has called them. And this is precisely what Jesus says, in effect, in John 10. To the unbelieving Jews, He says:

"...you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one" (John 10:26-30).​

Faith is relying upon the work of another. Jesus Christ for redemption.

Ah, well, the Bible defines faith for us... "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Do we assure ourselves? If so, how can we be truly assured? We can't. No, God is the source of this assurance we receive. But yes, Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Yeah, I was right. I didn't really want to hear what you thought salvation really meant. :) I knew there would be... issues. :) But I did like talking about what it really is... :)

Grace and peace to you.