Can you be saved if you don't believe in the diety of Christ?

[Titus]

Jesus said He is God.
In Revelation chapter 22 Jesus teaches He is God.
The JW's wrongly teach that it is not Jesus speaking but the Father.
Let the reader be the judge. I am confident those without bias to Jesus being God will easily see the obvious.

Revelation 22:12
And behold, I AM COMING QUICKLY and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, SURELY I AM COMING QUICKLY. Amen. Even so come, Lord, Jesus.

Revelation 22:12 is Jesus speaking not the Father as JW's try to twist the passage.

Now what does Jesus teach in Revelation chapter 22?

Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Jesus teaches He is eternal! Only Deity is eternal. And that Deity ie God is Jesus Christ!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Jesus teaches He is eternal! Only Deity is eternal. And that Deity ie God is Jesus Christ!

Great.

But the scriptures do not beat you over the head in demanding you believe he is God, nor does it teach how this is possible in a “trinity”. I can accept the mystery of God being in Christ. But it is wrong to say one’s salvation hangs on this acceptance. Especially when the scriptures are silent in this regard. And the only way trinitarian zealots “prove” believing the trinity is necessary for salvation is by making void their translated Bibles and poking into areas like the “original” languages where they have no business being in.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus said He is God.
In Revelation chapter 22 Jesus teaches He is God.
The JW's wrongly teach that it is not Jesus speaking but the Father.
Let the reader be the judge. I am confident those without bias to Jesus being God will easily see the obvious.

Revelation 22:12
And behold, I AM COMING QUICKLY and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, SURELY I AM COMING QUICKLY. Amen. Even so come, Lord, Jesus.

Revelation 22:12 is Jesus speaking not the Father as JW's try to twist the passage.
Now what does Jesus teach in Revelation chapter 22?

Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

Jesus teaches He is eternal! Only Deity is eternal. And that Deity ie God is Jesus Christ!

I would like to draw your attention to Revelation 1:8...

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (ASV)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (ESV)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord · God, “the one who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (MOUNCE Interlinear)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NASB)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NIV)

Is there any doubt that this title "Alpha and Omega" is given to God Almighty? In the Scriptures, only the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as the “Almighty.” Not once is Jesus addressed that way.

According to Revelation 1:1, the Revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God, who then relayed it to an angel who then gave it to John. So, we should expect the words of the Almighty God to be quoted in the account, since he is the originator of it.

The first reference to “the Alpha and the Omega” is an example of this. In verse 9 of the first chapter, the writer of the book of Revelation, says: “ I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.”
This provides additional confirmation that John understood that "the word of God" and "the testimony of Jesus" were two separate things, so the testimony of both God and his son are provided in the Revelation.

So, what does the title "Alpha and Omega" actually mean? It conveys the idea of the start and the finish or completion of something. The personage who is identified by that title would therefore be viewed as the 'beginner' of certain things and the one who brings these things to a successful 'conclusion'. Since Jesus always did the will of his Father, it proves that he is not the "beginning" or "end" of his Father's purpose, but a key figure in its outworking.

This title therefore belongs only to The Almighty, not to his "holy servant" Jesus. (Acts 4:30)

 

[lforrest]

God has a message that He has delivered.
We must know what God is telling us.
We must understand Gods word.
It is what we will be judged by in judgement.

John 12:48
He who rejects Me and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

We better get it right what Gods message to mankind is!

Believe the one he sent, sums it up.

 

[quietthinker]

I would like to draw your attention to Revelation 1:8...

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (ASV)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (ESV)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord · God, “the one who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (MOUNCE Interlinear)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NASB)

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NIV)

Is there any doubt that this title "Alpha and Omega" is given to God Almighty? In the Scriptures, only the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as the “Almighty.” Not once is Jesus addressed that way.

According to Revelation 1:1, the Revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God, who then relayed it to an angel who then gave it to John. So, we should expect the words of the Almighty God to be quoted in the account, since he is the originator of it.

The first reference to “the Alpha and the Omega” is an example of this. In verse 9 of the first chapter, the writer of the book of Revelation, says: “ I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.”
This provides additional confirmation that John understood that "the word of God" and "the testimony of Jesus" were two separate things, so the testimony of both God and his son are provided in the Revelation.

So, what does the title "Alpha and Omega" actually mean? It conveys the idea of the start and the finish or completion of something. The personage who is identified by that title would therefore be viewed as the 'beginner' of certain things and the one who brings these things to a successful 'conclusion'. Since Jesus always did the will of his Father, it proves that he is not the "beginning" or "end" of his Father's purpose, but a key figure in its outworking.

This title therefore belongs only to The Almighty, not to his "holy servant" Jesus. (Acts 4:30)

I see eisegesis is your specialty. Exegesis on the other hand has little to do with your biblical narrative.

Here is Wikipedia's definition for those unfamiliar with the expression:-
Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsɪˈdʒiːsɪs/) is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading intothe text.[1] It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it.

Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis. Exegesis is drawing out a text's meaning in accordance with the author's context and discoverable meaning. Eisegesis is when a reader imposes their interpretation of the text. Thus exegesis tends to be objective; and eisegesis, highly subjective.

Now to your case above; you have conveniently left out Revelation 22:12-13 which qualifies who the Alfa and Omega is.....namely Jesus.
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

 

[BarneyFife]

The King James translators did everyone a great disservice in not translating this properly. The way it should read (based on the Greek text) is: "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins."

They weren't the only ones:

New International Version
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

English Standard Version
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Berean Study Bible
That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

NASB 1995
"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

NASB 1977
“I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.""

NET Bible
Thus I told you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."
Classic Translations
King James Bible
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

New King James Version
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

King James 2000 Bible
I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

New Heart English Bible
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

World English Bible
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

American King James Version
I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

American Standard Version
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he , ye shall die in your sins.

Darby Bible Translation
I said therefore to you, that ye shall die in your sins; for unless ye shall believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

English Revised Version
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Webster's Bible Translation
I said therefore to you, that ye will die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye will die in your sins.

Early Modern
Geneva Bible of 1587
I said therefore vnto you, That ye shall die in your sinnes: for except ye beleeue, that I am he, ye shall die in your sinnes.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
I sayde therefore vnto you, that you shall dye in your sinnes. For yf ye beleue not that I am he, ye shall dye in your sinnes.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Therfore haue I sayde vnto you, that ye shal dye in youre synnes. For yf ye beleue not that I am he, ye shal dye in youre synnes.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
I sayde therfore vnto you that ye shall dye in youre synnes. For except ye beleve that I am he ye shall dye in yo ure synnes.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

Young's Literal Translation
I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.'

Literal Emphasis Translation
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

Anderson New Testament
Therefore said I to you, that you shall die in your sins. For if you believe not that I am, He, you shall die in your sins.

Godbey New Testament
Therefore I said to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you may not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.

Weymouth New Testament
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins; for, unless you believe that I am He, that is what will happen."

Worrell New Testament
I said, therefore, to you, that ye will die in your sins; for, unless ye believe that I am He, ye will die in your sins."

Makes me wonder if they weren't correct.


:)

Actually, I don't like to get involved in these types of threads too much anymore, because I usually end up getting high-strung about what I perceive to be non-essentional. I will say that by listing all those Bible versions that insert the word "He," I didn't mean to argue against the deity of Christ, but only to call out Enoch's shoddy evidence and bust his chops a little. I like a lot of his stuff, though. We've got a pretty pretty good thing going. He hits and runs and I shoot his tires out as he's leaving. It's a hootenanny; a real knee-slapper.

Anyway, if we're gonna defend Christ's deity, let's do it right. And no hitting below the belt. There's a new Sheriff in town, and it ain't me. I'm just a hick deputy in a hick jailhouse in a hick town.

Hi, @Aunty Jane!!..

 

[BarneyFife]

Jehovahs witness must be taught that Jesus is God.

Sounds like you wouldn't mind having the Holy Spirit's job.
Hate to break it to you, but I think it's already taken.

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

Is there any doubt that this title "Alpha and Omega" is given to God Almighty? In the Scriptures, only the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as the “Almighty.” Not once is Jesus addressed that way.

Jesus is addressed a lot of ways in only one verse, isn't he?

:)

 

[Titus]

As I said those who are honest and without a bias can easily see in Revelation 22:12 and verse 20 that Jesus is Jehovah. btw You believe in multiple gods being a polytheist. Yet you cannot believe Jesus' own words. Its obvious to me you have a strong animosity towards Jesus being God. I know two reasons why.
First, you do not personally like the concept of a God-head.
Second, fear of your Dad being lost, led you to abandon what you define as Christendom doctrine.

Is there any doubt that this title "Alpha and Omega" is given to God Almighty? In the Scriptures, only the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as the “Almighty.” Not once is Jesus addressed that way.

According to Revelation 1:1, the Revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God, who then relayed it to an angel who then gave it to John. So, we should expect the words of the Almighty God to be quoted in the account, since he is the originator of it.

No doubt in my mind that Jesus Himself refers to Himself as the Almighty in Revelation.
Yes we do see the Almighty Gods word quoted by John in the revelation account.
And the quotes of the Almighty are Jesus' Words.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Jesus is the one who is coming quickly in Revelation 22:12-20.

Revelation 22:12
And behold, I AM COMING QUICKLY and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, SURELY I AM COMING QUICKLY. Amen. Even so come, Lord, Jesus.

Right in Revelation 22:20 Jesus is referred to as Lord!

What does our Lord Jesus have to say in Revelation 22?

Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

As God said to Paul who would not believe Jesus was God in the flesh,
Acts 9:4-5
Then he(Paul) fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him," Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?
And he said, Who are You, Lord? Then the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting, It is hard for you to kick against the goads.

 

[Titus]

But the scriptures do not beat you over the head in demanding you believe he is God, nor does it teach how this is possible in a “trinity”

Jesus demands, commands that you believe He is God or else!

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

Jesus taught the God-head,
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Titus]

Sounds like you wouldn't mind having the Holy Spirit's job.
Hate to break it to you, but I think it's already taken.

:)

Then why are you on here teaching? Is this not hypocritical? Yes!

 

[Titus]

Sounds like you wouldn't mind having the Holy Spirit's job.
Hate to break it to you, but I think it's already taken.

:)

Jesus does not agree with your ideas, Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:19
And He said, Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature...

Paul does not agree with you,
1Corinthians 15:1-4 ; Acts 2:36

2Timothy 4:2
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering and teaching.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

@Titus

If you go back to verse 18 of John chapter 8 the “I am he” that Christ is referring to is he whom the father has sent (the light of the world), not that he is God:

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” (John 8:12)

“I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.” (John 8:18)

How in the world do you tie the “I am he” in John 8:24 to the book of Exodus while skipping over the very chapter the quote is in for context??!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Enoch's shoddy evidence and bust his chops a little

Amen!

 

[Titus]

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

@Titus

If you back to verse 18 of John chapter 8 the “I am he” that Christ is referring to is he whom the father has sent (the light of the world), not that he is God:

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” (John 8:12)


“I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.” (John 8:18)

How in the world do you tie the “I am he” in John 8:24 to the book of Exodus while skipping over the very chapter the quote is in for context??!!

Do you not know that God is the only Light?

John 8:12
...I am the light of the world....

Show me the scriptures that teach the Light is man?

1John 1:5
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

-7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Go to the very beginning of John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
That gives the context for the rest of the book of John.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Show me the scriptures that teach the Light is man?

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.” (Matthew 5:14)

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16)

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light” (Ephesians 5:8)

 

[Lambano]

If this question is going to be on the Entrance Exam, I wanna know what other controversial theological questions are on the test.

 

[Titus]

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.” (Matthew 5:14)

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16)

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light” (Ephesians 5:8)

Can men be lin the light if they are separated from the light?
No man is light unto himself! Only if we are in Christ are we in the light!

1John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practise the ttuth.

Who is the light? According to the apostle John it is God!

1John 1:5
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that GOD IS LIGHT and in Him is no darkness at all.

Just as John records Jesus say He is the Light in John 8:12,
Then Jesus spoke to them saying, I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness....

Jesus teaches in John 8:12 that only those in Christ are in the light!
Those who do not follow Him are in darkness John 8:12.
Therefore no man is a light unto himself separated from the light source(Jesus,God, 1John 1:5).

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus demands, commands that you believe He is God or else!

You're going off the beam, there. You definitely want to do the Holy Spirit's work for Him. I don't think it's going to get you very far.

:)

 

[theefaith]

I read a quote that said
" stop arguing with the saved; start preaching to the lost "

I think it's good advice tbh

who’s the saved?