Can you be saved if you don't believe in the diety of Christ?

[Aunty Jane]

Many would say I’m closed minded for the most part of being very stern on my foundation of Christ and trusting him in what he has said. He himself has stated those who did good, will be resurrected and those who did practiced evil will also be resurrected.

Was does being “resurrected” mean to you Matthew. This is an important question.

You say you once believed that you believed in immortal soul, then you changed your mind. It was the same thing when I use to believe Jesus was going to return soon… haha I remember talking to my Jw friend about it. Now I believe he done came.

No doubt in my mind that he is already here. His “parousia” (Matthew 24:3) is not his “coming on the clouds with power and great glory” these are two separate events...one at the beginning of the “time of the end” and the other at its conclusion. These “last days” of the present world system are a judgment period. We who live at this time are to decide whom we will serve...the God of the Bible or the god of this world, who can blind the minds of people who have closed theirs. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

Whatever you wanna believe is up to you, however to suggest the end of life is simply here and that is it and there is not anything more doesn’t make sense.

The great thing for us to do is continue to have love for God and have love for others by praying for them, and helping if needed.

The reason why I asked you what you believe the “resurrection” to be is because this is what the scriptures hold out as the hope for those we have lost in death. It is dear to my heart because I lost my father very suddenly to a massive heart attack when I was in my late teens, and my church upbringing led me to doubt that he was saved....so the alternative in my mind was unthinkable!
It kept me awake at night stressing that he might be suffering dreadful torments in that other place....so began my quest for the truth. I could not believe that God would do such a thing to a man I knew was not wicked.

When I first learned about the resurrection, I cannot tell you what an immense relief it was to know that my father was “sleeping” in the safest place that he could possibly be.....his grave. He was not conscious and he was not in any distress. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) His life was simply put on hold until the resurrection when Jesus will call all of the dead from their graves, (John 5:28-29) back to the paradise on earth that was taken from us by three rebels.

The problem with the immortal soul doctrine is that the church had to invent places for them to go.
Some of them got carried away with the Greek idea of hellfire, which the Bible does not support. The Catholic church particularly got creative with this, inventing purgatory and limbo.

Life does not have to continue after death if God says that Jesus has the power to resurrect the dead. He demonstrated that ability with his friend Lazarus....
Where did Jesus say that Lazarus was?

John 11:11-15...
“...He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let us go to him.” (NASB)

Lazarus had not gone anywhere....he was dead in his tomb for 4 days. His sister said that he would be decomposing by then. But Jesus called Lazarus from his tomb and returned him to his family. This is how it will be at the general resurrection of the dead. It is not the same as “the first resurrection” which is for those of Christ’s “elect” who will be taken to heaven to assist Jesus in his kingship and to act as priests for redeemed mankind. (Revelation 20:6)

We will have just to just dismiss this conversation if nothing avails from it.

I sincerely hope that something avails because I see in you great sincerity.....but sincerity alone is not enough if our beliefs are misdirected. Remember that Saul of Tarsus had to become the apostle Paul which meant that he had to change his thinking completely. What if he had stubbornly refused to do so? What would have become of him as the murderer of Christ’s brethren? His repentance and acceptance of his error led to his forgiveness and a mighty role in the education of Christ’s disciples down to this day.

Things are not always as they seem, especially in a world ruled by the devil. (1 John 5:19)

 

[Aunty Jane]

How did you go about through "careful study and research?"
What secondary resources did you examine Jane?

I have thoroughly examined all things from both sides as I was raised with your beliefs.
I use a variety of Bible translations as well as Strongs Concordance and the Jewish Tanakh.

What else would you like me to read? I have no time at all for Christendom’s teachings because my research has shown me where they all originated.....in ancient Babylon.

At the end of this wicked world when Jesus comes as judge, we will all stand before him and he will determine who among us are “sheep” and who are “goats”....by that time all of God “people” will have removed themselves from “Babylon the great” which is the command in Revelation 18:4-5....

In order to obey that command, we first have to identify what Babylon the great is. If all the false worship in the world comes from ancient Babylon, then all religions who teach these same ideas under different labels will all be judged the same way. There is a common thread running through all of the devil’s fake worship......multiplicities of gods.....immortal life after death.....and a place in either heavenly bliss or damnation in a fiery hell. All false worship employs these themes....Christendom promotes them all. These are the “weeds” sown by the devil mentioned in Jesus’ parable.

If people can’t see these teachings for what they are, then it is because God has not opened their heart to his truth. No one can come to the Son without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65)

People will chose to believe whatever they want and God will let them because we all have free will and we can exercise it to our benefit or to our destruction. Only “unbelievers” can be “blinded” by the devil. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) This is tragic when the “unbelievers” are fooled into thinking that they are “believers”. The master of deception has had a very long time to perfect his craft. His victims always fall for the same lies because they are tried and tested, generation after deceived generation.

 

[MatthewG]

Was does being “resurrected” mean to you Matthew. This is an important question.

Rising again: the Soul God gave to a person goes back to him. People keep saying that the soul is lost or destroyed but that is wrong. No one can dictate as though they can justify souls being gone or not being raised again, even if they were not an believer.

For they are not God. I shared here 40 verses about the resurrection, which are all the verses in the Apostolic record.

Does God Resurrect All Human Beings? (All Scripture In Apostolic Record 40 Verses)

No doubt in my mind that he is already here. His “parousia” (Matthew 24:3) is not his “coming on the clouds with power and great glory” these are two separate events...one at the beginning of the “time of the end” and the other at its conclusion. These “last days” of the present world system are a judgment period. We who live at this time are to decide whom we will serve...the God of the Bible or the god of this world, who can blind the minds of people who have closed theirs. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

You may see that Satan still blinds the minds of people, considering my view of fulfillment eschatology my view of Satan is he is defeated and is now currently no longer in power or control being thrown in the lake of fire with the false prophet and the beast.

We do wrestle around with the darkness and principality in high places, I believe the scripture says. I believe all people today are responsible for their actions and relationship between the living God and others.

The reason why I asked you what you believe the “resurrection” to be is because this is what the scriptures hold out as the hope for those we have lost in death. It is dear to my heart because I lost my father very suddenly to a massive heart attack when I was in my late teens, and my church upbringing led me to doubt that he was saved....so the alternative in my mind was unthinkable!
It kept me awake at night stressing that he might be suffering dreadful torments in that other place....so began my quest for the truth. I could not believe that God would do such a thing to a man I knew was not wicked.

Jane I am sorry for your loss, as far as my understanding and belief goes your Father has been raised from the dead, in a new spiritual body that is given by God.

When I first learned about the resurrection, I cannot tell you what an immense relief it was to know that my father was “sleeping” in the safest place that he could possibly be.....his grave. He was not conscious and he was not in any distress. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) His life was simply put on hold until the resurrection when Jesus will call all of the dead from their graves, (John 5:28-29) back to the paradise on earth that was taken from us by three rebels.

I believe in fulfilment eschatology. I believe Jesus has overcame all things. I believe people die and they are resurrected raised again. Believer or unbeliever. The Bible is pretty clear on this.

The problem with the immortal soul doctrine is that the church had to invent places for them to go.
Some of them got carried away with the Greek idea of hellfire, which the Bible does not support. The Catholic church particularly got creative with this, inventing purgatory and limbo.

The soul that was given to you is in your body, Jane. It is your mind, will, heart, emotions. You are created in Gods image, who also had a mind/will/heart/emotions. You see it through out the Bible. Gods anger, Gods wrath, God was well pleased with Jesus.

I have no problem telling you your soul is eternal. Once your life ends here your going into the realm of God. Not the realm of the dead, (Hell/Hades).

Life does not have to continue after death if God says that Jesus has the power to resurrect the dead. He demonstrated that ability with his friend Lazarus....
Where did Jesus say that Lazarus was?

John 11:11-15...
“...He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let us go to him.” (NASB)

Lazarus had not gone anywhere....he was dead in his tomb for 4 days. His sister said that he would be decomposing by then. But Jesus called Lazarus from his tomb and returned him to his family. This is how it will be at the general resurrection of the dead. It is not the same as “the first resurrection” which is for those of Christ’s “elect” who will be taken to heaven to assist Jesus in his kingship and to act as priests for redeemed mankind. (Revelation 20:6)

Soul sleep is a false doctrine. You may believe it if you choose to. I don’t and will never subscribe to it.

I sincerely hope that something avails because I see in you great sincerity.....but sincerity alone is not enough if our beliefs are misdirected. Remember that Saul of Tarsus had to become the apostle Paul which meant that he had to change his thinking completely. What if he had stubbornly refused to do so? What would have become of him as the murderer of Christ’s brethren? His repentance and acceptance of his error led to his forgiveness and a mighty role in the education of Christ’s disciples down to this day.

Things are not always as they seem, especially in a world ruled by the devil. (1 John 5:19)

I believe Satan has been defeated.

As I stated before, to others I only read the Bible… I don’t use many other things maybe a study Bible or something. I rarely go to church, and I’m very aware on some subjects people may speak about which I would deem not correct biblically.

Hope this helps you understand and also understand that I won’t change what I been made known about what the Bible itself has stated. Including the victory of Jesus.

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[quietthinker]

Quietthinker,

Is this why it is essential to live and walk by the spirit?

It is essential to be in relationship with Jesus. In that relationship one will live and walk by the Spirit. Without it, it's all sounding brass and tinkling symbols.

 

[Johann]

And my point was, is there going to be a pass/fail quiz about what we believe ABOUT Jesus? Or is it all about trusting Jesus to save us?

Who is quissing

I have thoroughly examined all things from both sides as I was raised with your beliefs.
I use a variety of Bible translations as well as Strongs Concordance and the Jewish Tanakh.

What else would you like me to read? I have no time at all for Christendom’s teachings because my research has shown me where they all originated.....in ancient Babylon.

At the end of this wicked world when Jesus comes as judge, we will all stand before him and he will determine who among us are “sheep” and who are “goats”....by that time all of God “people” will have removed themselves from “Babylon the great” which is the command in Revelation 18:4-5....

In order to obey that command, we first have to identify what Babylon the great is. If all the false worship in the world comes from ancient Babylon, then all religions who teach these same ideas under different labels will all be judged the same way. There is a common thread running through all of the devil’s fake worship......multiplications of gods.....immortal life after death.....and a place in either heavenly bliss or damnation in a fiery hell. All false worship employs these themes....Christendom promotes them all. These are the “weeds” sown by the devil mentioned in Jesus’ parable.

If people can’t see these teachings for what they are, then it is because God has not opened their heart to his truth. No one can come to the Son without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65)

People will chose to believe whatever they want and God will let them because we all have free will and we can exercise it to our benefit or to our destruction. Only “unbelievers” can be “blinded” by the devil. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) This is tragic when the “unbelievers” are fooled into thinking that they are “believers”. The master of deception has had a very long time to perfect his craft. His victims always fall for the same lies because they are tried and tested, generation after deceived generation.

Are you a Jew or a "believer" that have gone through the gates of Judaism?
Do you observe the Noachidic laws?
Just asking

 

[Aunty Jane]

I believe Satan has been defeated.

As I stated before, to others I only read the Bible… I don’t use many other things maybe a study Bible or something. I rarely go to church, and I’m very aware on some subjects people may speak about which I would deem not correct biblically.

Hope this helps you understand and also understand that I won’t change what I been made known about what the Bible itself has stated. Including the victory of Jesus.

Matthew, if satan is already defeated then why is the world in such a mess. With the coming of Christ will be the end of corrupt human rulership.....and the introduction of his kingdom. (Daniel 2:44)

We are living in the most momentous time in human history.....it’s decision time. Once we make that decision, and the end comes, it is final....there will be no second chances. As Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39...
“For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.”
We are living in those days right now.....days filled with violence, immorality and demonic influences are everywhere. People are feeding on a steady diet of these things in their everyday lives through their news channels and in their entertainment.....

One cannot be a Christian in isolation because we all must believe the same things (1 Corinthians 1:10) We are supposed to meet with like minded believers to share and to keep our faith unified and our love for one another strong....(Hebrews 10:24-25)

By your own admission, you are not doing this.

 

[quietthinker]

LOL....been there, done that. I was raised with Christendom’s teachings and found them to be spiritually empty and their trinity, incomprehensible. I also found that many who claim to be Christians are merely label wearers who can ignore all of Christ’s teachings if it suits them.....and yet still claim to be “Christians”. Jesus spoke about them and how it will turn out for them at the judgment. (Matthew 7:21-23)

I am happy to allow our appointed judge to do his job. It’s my job to just tell the truth and as Jesus and his disciples experienced, the mainstream were not going to be happy about hearing it. Jesus told us what to expect in John 15:18-21.

Jesus never once said he was God. Please show us where he said it directly without squeezing it into ambiguous verses by inference.

These texts below are Jesus speaking.....check the context.
Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:12-13
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his workshall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew, if satan is already defeated then why is the world in such a mess. With the coming of Christ will be the end of corrupt human rulership.....and the introduction of his kingdom. (Daniel 2:44)

We live in a fallen world full of broken people.

We are living in the most momentous time in human history.....it’s decision time. Once we make that decision, and the end comes, it is final....there will be no second chances.

Can you show me in the Bible that is says no second chances?

As Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39...
“For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away,+ so the presence of the Son of man will be.”

This talking about the closing up and end of the age the Jewish people known all their lives. In context, Jesus told his 4 disciples privately to be aware of times and signs, also would include Paul in the later part because Paul spent time with Jesus also, also hearing from the apostles about this same message there in that time.

You might disagree but the notion of talking about the world baffles me because obviously we all are corrupted humans who have sin in us to cause evil upon another.

Jesus sets us free of those tendencies, by the spirit of Christ in us, however the evil in heart is still there just held back.

We are living in those days right now.....days filled with violence, immorality and demonic influences are everywhere. People are feeding on a steady diet of these things in their everyday lives through their news channels and in their entertainment.....

Could be worse. They could be slaying Christians in the streets like they did in Rome in the early 60-70Ads. The world still has darkness in it… but Satan and the demons is out the picture on my end.

One cannot be a Christian in isolation because we all must believe the same things (1 Corinthians 1:10) We are supposed to meet with like minded believers to share and to keep our faith unified and our love for one another strong....(Hebrews 10:24-25)

I would be careful on what you deem is Christian, especially if you are doing to undermine someone.

Thank you for your time,
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Aunty Jane]

Who is quissing


Are you a Jew or a "believer" that have gone through the gates of Judaism?
Do you observe the Noachidic laws?
Just asking

I am the same religion as my Lord Jesus. He taught me the truth that I believe.
He did not come to institute a new religion but to institute a new covenant, with new rules of behavior in connection with our worship, no longer shackled to the Mosaic Law But now under the “law of love”.

I am not a Noahide...I am a Christian, taught only by scripture, and not by the traditions of men.
I refuse to engage in pagan traditions and beliefs that are dressed up to look as if they are “Christian”.

Jesus and his apostles warned us all about the coming “apostasy”, but the majority of those in Christendom are not even aware that it happened or that they are victims of it.

Becoming aware opens up eyes that have been closed for many centuries.....no longer lost in the lies, but liberated in the truth. (John 8:31-32)

 

[Johann]

I am the same religion as my Lord Jesus. He taught me the truth that I believe.
He did not come to institute a new religion but to institute a new covenant, with new rules of behavior in connection with our worship, no longer shackled to the Mosaic Law But now under the “law of love”.

I am not a Noahide...I am a Christian, taught only by scripture, and not by the traditions of men.
I refuse to engage in pagan traditions and beliefs that are dressed up to look as if they are “Christian”.

Jesus and his apostles warned us all about the coming “apostasy”, but the majority of those in Christendom are not even aware that it happened or that they are victims of it.

Becoming aware opens up eyes that have been closed for many centuries.....no longer lost in the lies, but liberated in the truth. (John 8:31-32)

Nope, there is something wrong here

 

[quietthinker]

if satan is already defeated then why is the world in such a mess. With the coming of Christ will be the end of corrupt human rulership.....and the introduction of his kingdom. (Daniel 2:44)

Yes, it's in a mess, however, the lens you see the sequences though are faulty.....it conflates that which is separate and muddles your understanding of events.

Now, I know you've blocked me AJ, (something you have threatened three times) so you possibly won't read this but others will. Herein is an indication of the problem mentioned above ie, anything that doesn't fit into your way of seeing (which incidentally you see as sacrosanct) is blocked.
How can you possibly hear when your ears are stopped....even God won't violate your choice on that one!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, it's in a mess, however, the lens you see the sequences though are faulty.....it conflates that which is separates and muddles your understanding of events.

Now, I know you've blocked me AJ, so you possibly won't read this but others will. Herein is an indication of the problem mentioned above ie, anything that doesn't fit into your way of seeing (which incidentally you see as sacrosanct) is blocked.
How can you possibly hear when your ears are stopped....even God won't violate your choice on that one!

That is an extremely good point.

@Aunty Jane : I love you as a sister and hope for you to continue in faith if the Gospel of Christ in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ my sister. God loves you ever so much, and my desire is to remind you of that.

I am now to the point I’m willingly to share with others points of abstraction from the Bible the truth of it. As I’m tired of allowing people to continue to believe false hoods of no resurrection… of souls. Or that God is angry with others, or that if they say there is no second chances? Where is it found in the Bible.

If I am gonna be a Christian I need to be about the truth and the truth always has come at a price be it losing something I once held dear to my heart, or people not likening me for telling them the truth when lead by the spirit to do so.

Am I really here to please men? Or am I to please God? It’s a choice I need to make I will love anyone who come across the way of my path though for that is what the Christian life is about helping others, having compassion, mercy, love, not to mock or down play others but to encourage and share the truth, especially pertaining to the Bible.

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Aunty Jane]

We live in a fallen world full of broken people.

Yes, because satan is now in his last days, confined to the earth and angry because he is about to be thrown into an abyss with all his cronies. He used to be subtle....now he is in our faces every day wreaking havoc.

Can you show me in the Bible that is says no second chances?

Matthew 25: 31-34, 41, 46....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. . . .
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.. . . .
Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.”

There are only two destinations in the Bible....everlasting life or everlasting death.
You say Christ has come....this proves that he hasn’t because the "goats" are all still here.

This talking about the closing up and end of the age the Jewish people known all their lives. In context, Jesus told his 4 disciples privately to be aware of times and signs, also would include Paul in the later part because Paul spent time with Jesus also, also hearing from the apostles about this same message there in that time.

The end of the Jewish system was only one end of one system....there was another to follow at “the close of the age” or what some call “the end of the world”. Both have similar features but occurred in two different ages.

You might disagree but the notion of talking about the world baffles be because obviously we all are corrupted humans who have sin in us to cause evil upon another.

Jesus sets us free of those tendencies, by the spirit of Christ in us, however the evil in heart is still there just held back.

Only true Christians are held back by Christ’s teachings.....the “weeds” are fake Christians who only pretend to follow Christ but will break his command when it suits them.

Could be worse. They could be slaying Christians in the streets like they did in Rome in the early 60-70Ads. The world still has darkness in it… but Satan is out the picture on my end.

Sorry Matthew, he is still very much in evidence in the world at the present time creating more trouble than we could ever have imagined....he is only hiding from those who do not wish to see him. His activities are drowning the planet in every sort of wickedness. He knows his time is running out. (Revelation 12:7-12) Revelation was written about our time.....well after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

I would be careful on what you deem is Christian, especially if you are doing to undermine someone.

Undermining is not what we are told to do....we are to speak the truth regardless of how it is accepted.....this is what separates the sheep from the goats......what they have accepted as their truth, but when Christ comes as judge, the goats will have no excuses to give him since the "good news of the Kingdom has been preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations".....now "the end" can come. (Matthew 24:14)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Nope, there is something wrong here

What is wrong? Tell me how you believe what I said is not true....I can back up everything with scripture.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, because satan is now in his last days, confined to the earth and angry because he is about to be thrown into an abyss with all his cronies. He used to be subtle....now he is in our faces every day wreaking havoc.


Matthew 25: 31-34, 41, 46....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. . . .
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.. . . .
Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.”

There are only two destinations in the Bible....everlasting life or everlasting death.
You say Christ has come....this proves that he hasn’t because the "goats" are all still here.


The end of the Jewish system was only one end of one system....there was another to follow at “the close of the age” or what some call “the end of the world”. Both have similar features but occurred in two different ages.


Only true Christians are held back by Christ’s teachings.....the “weeds” are fake Christians who only pretend to follow Christ but will break his command when it suits them.


Sorry Matthew, he is still very much in evidence in the world at the present time creating more trouble than we could ever have imagined....he is only hiding from those who do not wish to see him. His activities are drowning the planet in every sort of wickedness. He knows his time is running out. (Revelation 12:7-12) Revelation was written about our time.....well after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE.


Undermining is not what we are told to do....we are to speak the truth regardless of how it is accepted.....this is what separates the sheep from the goats......what they have accepted as their truth, but when Christ comes as judge, the goats will have no excuses to give him since the "good news of the Kingdom has been preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations".....now "the end" can come. (Matthew 24:14)

Aunty Jane,

You may believe as you desire. I love you either way. I won’t tell you are wrong if that is what you wanna believe. It is all between you and God friend. I have done my part. And I’m done conversing now so thank you again for your patience and time.

If you ever need anything feel free to pm.

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[BarneyFife]

Interpreting the word messiah figuratively instead of literally, "God is with us."

Don't you mean the word "Immanuel?"
How do you figuratively interpret "Immanuel?"
Just getting a little technical here.
I really like the main thrust of your post--especially the thief on the cross part.

:)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Aunty Jane,

You may believe as you desire. I love you either way. I won’t tell you are wrong if that is what you wanna believe. It is all between you and God friend. I have done my part. And I’m done conversing now so thank you again for your patience and time.

If you ever need anything feel free to pm.

Thank you.

As you wish.....we all have to do as our hearts impel us.....but sadly, we cannot always trust it.
Jeremiah 17:9-10....
"The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate.
Who can know it?

I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,
Examining the innermost thoughts,
To give to each one according to his ways,
According to the fruitage of his works."

Let God's word have the last say....
I wish you peace.

 

[lforrest]

Don't you mean the word "Immanuel?"
How do you figuratively interpret "Immanuel?"
Just getting a little technical here.
I really like the main thrust of your post--especially the thief on the cross part.

:)

Is it? I must have gotten confused. Hundreds of thousands of people mulling over the scriptures to justify their beliefs means there is an excuse for everything.

 

[BarneyFife]

The King James translators did everyone a great disservice in not translating this properly. The way it should read (based on the Greek text) is: "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins."

They weren't the only ones:

New International Version
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

English Standard Version
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

Berean Study Bible
That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

NASB 1995
"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

NASB 1977
“I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.""

NET Bible
Thus I told you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."
Classic Translations
King James Bible
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

New King James Version
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

King James 2000 Bible
I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

New Heart English Bible
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

World English Bible
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."

American King James Version
I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sins.

American Standard Version
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he , ye shall die in your sins.

Darby Bible Translation
I said therefore to you, that ye shall die in your sins; for unless ye shall believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

English Revised Version
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Webster's Bible Translation
I said therefore to you, that ye will die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye will die in your sins.

Early Modern
Geneva Bible of 1587
I said therefore vnto you, That ye shall die in your sinnes: for except ye beleeue, that I am he, ye shall die in your sinnes.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
I sayde therefore vnto you, that you shall dye in your sinnes. For yf ye beleue not that I am he, ye shall dye in your sinnes.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Therfore haue I sayde vnto you, that ye shal dye in youre synnes. For yf ye beleue not that I am he, ye shal dye in youre synnes.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
I sayde therfore vnto you that ye shall dye in youre synnes. For except ye beleve that I am he ye shall dye in yo ure synnes.
Berean Literal Bible
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

Young's Literal Translation
I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.'

Literal Emphasis Translation
I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

Anderson New Testament
Therefore said I to you, that you shall die in your sins. For if you believe not that I am, He, you shall die in your sins.

Godbey New Testament
Therefore I said to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you may not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.

Weymouth New Testament
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins; for, unless you believe that I am He, that is what will happen."

Worrell New Testament
I said, therefore, to you, that ye will die in your sins; for, unless ye believe that I am He, ye will die in your sins."

Makes me wonder if they weren't correct.


:)

 

[Titus]

Is it? I must have gotten confused. Hundreds of thousands of people mulling over the scriptures to justify their beliefs means there is an excuse for everything.

God has a message that He has delivered.
We must know what God is telling us.
We must understand Gods word.
It is what we will be judged by in judgement.

John 12:48
He who rejects Me and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

We better get it right what Gods message to mankind is!