Illuminator
Well-Known Member
What else would you expect from staunch Calvinists?
55 Critiques of John Calvin: Introduction & Master List
Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?
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What else would you expect from staunch Calvinists?
55 Critiques of John Calvin: Introduction & Master List
The Holy Spirit is “uncreated Advocate” and Mary is “created Advocate.” Advocacy for the Church is their common cause. Since Mary is full of grace and full of the Holy Spirit, her will, prayers, and advocacy mirror that of the Holy Spirit. E.g. “the Spirit and the Bride say…”
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
When I asked you..."What verse in the Bible says the Holy Spirit and Mary got married?" you answered with...
But what does Matt 1:20 say in the underlined portion of the verse you used?...
"But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit;"
That is back-peddling from what you said below in your post #1050 of Mary being the spouse of the Holy Spirit isn't it?
...to which I replied:
"to even consider that Mary was the .... "Spouse of the Holy Spirit". That is nothing but the epitome of blasphemy!!!"
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Still waiting for a verse in the Bible that confirms your claim that..."Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit?"
Becoming conceived with the promised "seed" does not equal "being the spouse of anything"; and therefore you are still promoting blasphemy. No way out of it. The Roman Catholic church is therefore the church of Babylon!
Song of Solomon 4
4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
mother of fair love!
4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
mother of fair love!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Act 7:41...And they made a calf in those days, and offered a sacrifice to the idol and rejoiced in the works of their hands. 42But God turned and gave them over to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the prophets: 'Did you offer to me slain beasts and sacrifices, forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? 43And you took up the tent of Moloch, and the star of the god Rephan, the figures which you made to worship; and I will remove you beyond Babylon.'
The RCC; church of Babylon; lots and lots of statues and idols to kiss the feet of in Rome!
I was there and saw them for myself.
you cannot see intent
images are not forbidden
idolatry is
Worship and adoration and offering sacrifice requires intent!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Exodus 20:3-5...You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or this is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water inder the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting he iniquity of the fathers upon the children ...."
keep reading ex 25:10 And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.
11 And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, within and without shalt thou overlay it, and shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.
12 And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.
13 And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.
14 And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.
15 The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.
16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Images not forbidden idolatry is
Babylon refers to the pagan Roman Empire not a church
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
LOL! Sounds of desperation? Are you really going to imply that our God's tabernacle is like the "false god of traditions" in the RCC?
What is going on in Ex 25 is God's command to build the tabernacle in the wilderness and therefore He is giving Moses specific instructions for the tent. It was in that tabernacle that God's presence or cloud of glory would fill the holy place and remained over the Ark of the Covenant. The Mercy Seat is a type of Christ. In verse 22,
it says...
"There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you of all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel."
Worship of God was encouraged because He is the one-and-only true God; all others are false gods and not to be worshiped as in making statutes of Mary for people to kiss her feet, or the ring of the pope, or even a statue of Christ.
Babylon was infamously known for idolatry of images....ergo "The Roman Catholic Church of Babylon"...
Article: How did the Babylonians worship their gods?
- In Babylonian religion, the ritual care and worship of the statues of deities was considered sacred; the gods lived simultaneously in their statues in temples and in the natural forces they embodied. An elaborate ceremony of washing the mouths of the statues appeared sometime in the Old Babylonian period.
babylon is the pagan Roman Empire conquered by Christ and his church Dan 2:44
Ark or tabernacle dwelling place of God?
Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holy mother of God!
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!
See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!
Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!
Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?
Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!
No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2
Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!
That’s impossible!
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Jesus did!
Circular reasoning! The Ark of the Covenant in Exodus was made of wood and gold; Mary was a sinner who stated that she needed a Savior. Mary was made of human flesh through intercourse from her parents just like all humans have been re-produced from both parents since Adam and Eve. There is not ONE verse in the Bible that even hints that Mary was not a sinner who needed a Savior and many verses have been shown that Mary and Joseph had a pretty good normal sex life so it is blasphemy to insist that she was "the spouse of the Holy spirit."
Still waiting for a verse in the Bible that confirms your claim that..."Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit?"
she could not have been 'spouse' to both Joseph and the Holy Spirit that would have been bigamy. And we know she a relationship with Joseph because she had other children who were siblings to Jesus.
Mary is not a sinner!
A good tree!
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!
A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
A sinner would be an evil tree with evil fruit, but the fruit of Mary is salvation!
Mary brings in the good fruits of our redemption and salvation!
Proving Mary most holy, ever virgin mother of God & mother of our salvation is not a sinner!
Lk 1:28 Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women.
How can God fill a sinner with grace, and remain a sinner?
Hail Mary full of grace!
How can the Lord be with sinner?
The lord is with thee!
How can sinner be blessed!
Blessed art thou, and all generations shall call me blessed!
Lk 1: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
How can a sinner be the mother of God?
Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
How could sinner be faithful?
Lk 1: 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
How could a sinner magnify the Lord?
Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
How could sinner be humble?
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
How could sinner be the immaculate conception and the have the Holy Spirit accomplish the Miraculous conception of Jesus in Her?
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
How could sinner be a perpetual Virgin bringing forth the savior of the world?
Jn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
How could sinner be our spiritual mother?
Lk 2:30 I have seen my salvation!
How could a sinner be the mother of our salvation?
Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!
Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!
Catholics can claim whatever they like about Mary or the scriptures and the man made doctrines that the CC delights itself in but that does not make any of it true.
They are just falsehoods that all Catholics choose to believe rather than believing in the truth. And Jesus is the the Truth; he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And nobody can come to the Father unless it is through Jesus. Nobody can come to the Father through Mary because the only way to the Father is through a sinless person which Jesus is and Mary wasn't.
They are just falsehoods that all Catholics choose to believe rather than believing in the truth. And Jesus is the the Truth; he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And nobody can come to the Father unless it is through Jesus. Nobody can come to the Father through Mary because the only way to the Father is through a sinless person which Jesus is and Mary wasn't.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
No he didn't, he was always there from the beginning not through Mary we cannot agree with that.
And as Christians who aren't catholic we honour and respect her as the Mother of Jesus our Saviour.
But anything beyond that is heresy.
Good I'm glad we can agree on that. There would be something very wrong if you did have an argument with it.
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