US Russian Hoax

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Randy Kluth

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I apologize if this isn't particularly relevant to biblical discussions. It is, however, relevant to my own participation in them. I've been completely immersed in the current unraveling of the Russian Hoax scandal in the US. Before and during the Trump presidency there was an active conspiracy, by the Democrat Party, and Hillary Clinton in particular, to skew the voters' attitude towards Trump as a traitor to US concerns, as a seedy "friend" of Putin and Russia.

This is now coming to light under a special prosecutor appointed just before Trump left office. Durham has uncovered a plot to spy on Trump--something Trump had identified earlier but was laughed at in the media. Trump was right--he was in fact spied on in a conspiracy to taint him and destroy his ability to be reelected. Our media has been busy castigating anybody who forwards this "conspiracy theory" as propagandistic and misinformation. In case you're interested, here are a few of my favorite people who appear on Fox TV, and another who someone on a forum gave me.


rumble.com/vux8jn-ep.-1705-spygate-erupts-the-dan-bongino-show.html?mref=16emn&mc=6kk5f&fbclid=IwAR0JwgrZTiGgY0yoQBT3k5M2g8ZFlShyrmn2JAvB-D28ayK_Pr0UhBQtwdY

www.facebook.com/JaySekulow/videos/1384622091989357

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref...82-da75-4fc9-87f4-f4bac9725a51&q=steve hilton

www.facebook.com/bennyjohnson/videos/659895278545320
 
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Ronald D Milam

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I apologize if this isn't particularly relevant to biblical discussions. It is, however, relevant to my own participation in them. I've been completely immersed in the current unraveling of the Russian Hoax scandal in the US. Before and during the Trump presidency there was an active conspiracy, by the Democrat Party, and Hillary Clinton in particular, to skew the voters' attitude towards Trump as a traitor to US concerns, as a seedy "friend" of Putin and Russia.

This is now coming to light under a special prosecutor appointed just before Trump left office. Durham has uncovered a plot to spy on Trump--something Trump had identified earlier but was laughed at in the media. Trump was right--he was in fact spied on in a conspiracy to taint him and destroy his ability to be reelected. Our media has been busy castigating anybody who forwards this "conspiracy theory" as propagandistic and misinformation. In case you're interested, here are a few of my favorite people who appear on Fox TV, and another who someone on a forum gave me.


rumble.com/vux8jn-ep.-1705-spygate-erupts-the-dan-bongino-show.html?mref=16emn&mc=6kk5f&fbclid=IwAR0JwgrZTiGgY0yoQBT3k5M2g8ZFlShyrmn2JAvB-D28ayK_Pr0UhBQtwdY

www.facebook.com/JaySekulow/videos/1384622091989357

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref...82-da75-4fc9-87f4-f4bac9725a51&q=steve hilton

www.facebook.com/bennyjohnson/videos/659895278545320

I knew all of this in late 2017 and early 2018 by reading the Conservative Treehouse and "Sundance". He had a meeting with Durham, and said Durham asked him how he found all of this out, and he was like through public information (FISA court docs.) and putting it all together. He said Durham was amazed. Basically I knew 4 years ago that someone using 702 (16) and (17) searches was spying on Trump and the Republicans in his circle.

Understanding FISA-702(16)(17) And How It Was Used in 2016….
January 14, 2018 | Sundance | 114 Comments

We’ll break down the term: “ FISA-702(16)(17) ” into the elements that will help you make sense of this story in the future.

  • FISA – Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
  • 702 – An American caught up in the process of Foreign Surveillance
  • (16) – A search query based on “TO” and/or “FROM”
  • (17) – A search query based on “ABOUT”
Again, to repeat, there are differing FISA rules for use of the NSA or FBI database depending on the originating intelligence compartment.

If a search is conducted from an intelligence compartment within the U.S. government whose objective is to ensure “National Security” there are different FISA rules than a search from an intelligence compartment not engaged in “National Security”.
The DOJ has a “National Security Division”. Their compartment rules on FISA searches and reviews are different from the DOJ “Civil Rights Division”. There are 30 DOJ divisions.
The FBI (a department within the DOJ) has a Counterintelligence Division that focuses on terrorism threats etc. A FISA search from within the Counterintelligence Division has different rules than a FISA search from the Science and Technology Division.
So, We Begin: FISA searches can be conducted on any foreign person without issue. All non-U.S. citizens on the entire planet can be searched 24/7/365 no issues. FISA searches on foreign people have no restrictions at all.
However, when the FISA search returns data identifying a U.S. citizen, everything changes. Those changes are under the identifying term “702”. A “702” is an American person.
All U.S. citizens are protected by the fourth amendment against unlawful search and seizure. All searches of U.S. people must have a valid reason. Title III says any search for a potential criminal investigation must have a judicial warrant. Additionally, any criminal search of the FISA database must also have a warrant (technically, ‘approval’).
Any FISA searches of foreign subjects, might need FISA Court approval if the returned data includes a U.S. subject (“702”).
However, When a FISA-702 search is conducted based on the need for “national security” no approval from the FISA court is needed. Search away. If the FISA search is because of a “vital national security interest” the resulting search data can be opened, and all ‘upstream’ connections explored, without seeking permission from the FISA court.
♦A “FISA-702(16)” Search Result – would be a search result of the FBI (counter terrorism) database or NSA database that returns an American person as a result of a “To” or “From” (16) type data search.

EXAMPLE: Querying phone data (phone number) TO: Operator BadGuy or FROM: Operator BadGuy – might return a list of phone numbers that also contains an American persons’ phone number. That American person is protected by the fourth amendment. To look at the “upstream” connections of the American Person to other people, likely more Americans, the search operator would need to ask permission of the FISA Court to review the upstream results.

[NOTE: *Exception* – the search was vital to national security. If so, the upstream phone numbers could be reviewed without asking FISA permission.]

♦A “FISA-702(17)” Search Result – would be a search result of the FBI (counter terrorism) database or NSA database that returns an American person (702) as a result of an “ABOUT” (17) type data search.

EXAMPLE: Querying everything in email ABOUT: Mohammed BadGuy – might return communication of an American who wrote a letter about Mohammed BadGuy or maybe he told a friend in a text to check out a media story about Mohammed BadGuy. To look at the email or text of the American, the search operator would need to ask permission of the FISA Court to see the email/text content.

[NOTE: *Exception* – the search was vital to national security?. If So, the email and text could be looked at without asking permission]

Go read the rest of it........you will be tripping, there is no way this one guy could figure all of this out while the Muller team did nit know what was going on.

Understanding FISA-702(16)(17) And How It Was Used in 2016.... - The Last Refuge

P.S. there are many, many more like this, that is the reason we know Rubio and Burr were in on the "TAKE DOWN EFFORT" on Trump, I can get you a link to why that Committee (SSCS) was in on the take down plans. There are many things I knew well before most anyone in America by reading this guy, he has to be someone that is in this field of analyzing DATA who quit a long time ago. You do not get a meeting with Durham unless you are onto something, I personally believe the info this man put together and then placed in front of Durham, pushed him onto this conspiracy case (a conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime) which I think he will eventually bring. Conspiracy is usually the easiest case to prove. All you have to do is tie their e-mails and timelines together.

This stuff has been known by me for over 4 years. We didn't know it was Georgia Tech, but by read the FISA Court Docs, we knew it was being done.
 
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Enoch111

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I've been completely immersed in the current unraveling of the Russian Hoax scandal in the US.
Unfortunately this is five years too late, and Durham is still playing political games. Durham should have been able to connect all the dots within a couple of months, with Obama...Biden...Clinton...Jared...Rice...Lynch...Comey...Barr...Wray...Mueller... Storzk... Clapper... Brennan... etc.
and published a FULL REPORT as well as indictments against all these people for a criminal conspiracy and treason. So I am not at all impressed with simply a focus on Hillary, when Biden should be behind bars along with Obama. And nothing is going to happen to Hillary. Once again turning the focus from a stolen election to a loser candidate diverts people from the real crime of the century.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Unfortunately this is five years too late, and Durham is still playing political games. Durham should have been able to connect all the dots within a couple of months, with Obama...Biden...Clinton...Jared...Rice...Lynch...Comey...Barr...Wray...Mueller... Storzk... Clapper... Brennan... etc.
He had a few problems, he had COVI 19 to deal with and he had al of the "Clinton Lawyer Types" using the court system to slow down the process, especially with COVID 19 out there and Judges allowing delay after delay, and probably in many cases not wanting to show up themselves in the meat of the COVID 19 fear campaign.

The main DOJ is a different story, they were molded in the shape of liberal commies, just like the Military was under Obama. Wray is a traitor, as are all the rest, Barr just got tired of t all probably and said the hell with it. The Riots were mean to intimidate, when they sent BLM and ANTIFA to Lindsey Grahams house, McConnel's house and to Tucker Carlson's house t scare his wife and kids, they were trying to mainly intimidate the 2 new Supreme Court Justices, because they knew they were going to steal the Election. The night Trump had a White House Party to celebrate his last pick for the Supreme Court Senators like Paul were surrounded and intimidated, they knew the Supreme Court was watching all this, all the riots all over the nation, they knew if the could get at McConnel, Graham and Tucker and no one did anything about it, they could get at them also, so they thought about there kids, and they just allowed the Des to steal the Election, with Robert's the never Trumpers go ahead I might add. Schumer also threatened to PACK THE COURT, that was also meant as a threat, you don't let us do what we are going to do and we will but 20 Court Justices in place.

God, IMHO has outfoxed these foolish people (of course). He elected Trump against all odds. The Belmont Stakes was an AFFIRMINATION to a woman who was helping Trump but had second thoughts halfway through 2016, so she asked the holy spirit for confirmation and she was told to watch the Belmont Stakes. She didnlt but rushed home to see what happened that night.

A Horse named Creator defeated Destin (Chosen beforehand/Hillary LOL....I looked it up, it really means chose beforehand) by a NOSE in one of the closet ever Belmont Stake races, and Creator came from the back, and never led until the last head bob (no kidding)

Creator beats Destin by a nose to win Belmont Stakes | HeraldNet.com

So, we know God placed Donald Trump in office, so why allow him to lose? Well, in this case losing is WINNING !! Do you see it? I do, if Trump had won (he did win), things would have carried on and the Media & Dems would have kept him bottled up and Trump could never plan out what needs to be done and he would have not had any advantage in the House nor Senate because of RINOS. But, by losing to THEIFS stealing an Election, God has allowed the average joe to become riled up, with their COVID 19 fiasco, they git to see how their kids were being indoctrinated with Homosexual/trans trash, how their kids were being taught Critical Race Theory etc. etc. The common man knows the Dems stole the Election, and they are fed up. Now we are taking back the local School Boards, we are passing laws to thwart the stealing of elections going forward, so God, IMHO, is exposing these liberal tyrants for who they are, and when Trump wins his "THIRD ELECTION" wink wink, he will have more than likely IMHO, 270 to 280 members in the house and most everyone of them will be Trumplicans, not RINOS, and probably 60 plus senators in the Senate.

Knowing Trump, he will push through all kind of things that will thwart any Dem/Commie plans for the next 100 years, (Jesus will be here soon anyway). Trump will have a plan this time, he's got guys right now planning out who he needs to fire on day one and what to do if some pinhead judge tries to stop those firings, like place people over them who then FIRE THEM if they do not follow orders, that is what Obama did in his military purge and FBI purge. He will not have anyone holding up his picks this time, so he will put up staunch conservatives in place.

Durham may just be a-political, and he may go after only the Clintons, this will make some Dems happy also, but he's not going to go after Biden because he pushed an out dated law that us for interpretation. Now, if someone would investigate Biden's crooked acts, but his DOJ will not do it, that's not Durham's focus, he's just on the Russia Issue.
 

Randy Kluth

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I knew all of this in late 2017 and early 2018 by reading the Conservative Treehouse and "Sundance". He had a meeting with Durham, and said Durham asked him how he found all of this out, and he was like through public information (FISA court docs.) and putting it all together. He said Durham was amazed. Basically I knew 4 years ago that someone using 702 (16) and (17) searches was spying on Trump and the Republicans in his circle.

Understanding FISA-702(16)(17) And How It Was Used in 2016….
January 14, 2018 | Sundance | 114 Comments

We’ll break down the term: “ FISA-702(16)(17) ” into the elements that will help you make sense of this story in the future.

  • FISA – Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
  • 702 – An American caught up in the process of Foreign Surveillance
  • (16) – A search query based on “TO” and/or “FROM”
  • (17) – A search query based on “ABOUT”
Again, to repeat, there are differing FISA rules for use of the NSA or FBI database depending on the originating intelligence compartment.

If a search is conducted from an intelligence compartment within the U.S. government whose objective is to ensure “National Security” there are different FISA rules than a search from an intelligence compartment not engaged in “National Security”.
The DOJ has a “National Security Division”. Their compartment rules on FISA searches and reviews are different from the DOJ “Civil Rights Division”. There are 30 DOJ divisions.
The FBI (a department within the DOJ) has a Counterintelligence Division that focuses on terrorism threats etc. A FISA search from within the Counterintelligence Division has different rules than a FISA search from the Science and Technology Division.
So, We Begin: FISA searches can be conducted on any foreign person without issue. All non-U.S. citizens on the entire planet can be searched 24/7/365 no issues. FISA searches on foreign people have no restrictions at all.
However, when the FISA search returns data identifying a U.S. citizen, everything changes. Those changes are under the identifying term “702”. A “702” is an American person.
All U.S. citizens are protected by the fourth amendment against unlawful search and seizure. All searches of U.S. people must have a valid reason. Title III says any search for a potential criminal investigation must have a judicial warrant. Additionally, any criminal search of the FISA database must also have a warrant (technically, ‘approval’).
Any FISA searches of foreign subjects, might need FISA Court approval if the returned data includes a U.S. subject (“702”).
However, When a FISA-702 search is conducted based on the need for “national security” no approval from the FISA court is needed. Search away. If the FISA search is because of a “vital national security interest” the resulting search data can be opened, and all ‘upstream’ connections explored, without seeking permission from the FISA court.
♦A “FISA-702(16)” Search Result – would be a search result of the FBI (counter terrorism) database or NSA database that returns an American person as a result of a “To” or “From” (16) type data search.

EXAMPLE: Querying phone data (phone number) TO: Operator BadGuy or FROM: Operator BadGuy – might return a list of phone numbers that also contains an American persons’ phone number. That American person is protected by the fourth amendment. To look at the “upstream” connections of the American Person to other people, likely more Americans, the search operator would need to ask permission of the FISA Court to review the upstream results.

[NOTE: *Exception* – the search was vital to national security. If so, the upstream phone numbers could be reviewed without asking FISA permission.]

♦A “FISA-702(17)” Search Result – would be a search result of the FBI (counter terrorism) database or NSA database that returns an American person (702) as a result of an “ABOUT” (17) type data search.

EXAMPLE: Querying everything in email ABOUT: Mohammed BadGuy – might return communication of an American who wrote a letter about Mohammed BadGuy or maybe he told a friend in a text to check out a media story about Mohammed BadGuy. To look at the email or text of the American, the search operator would need to ask permission of the FISA Court to see the email/text content.

[NOTE: *Exception* – the search was vital to national security?. If So, the email and text could be looked at without asking permission]

Go read the rest of it........you will be tripping, there is no way this one guy could figure all of this out while the Muller team did nit know what was going on.

Understanding FISA-702(16)(17) And How It Was Used in 2016.... - The Last Refuge

P.S. there are many, many more like this, that is the reason we know Rubio and Burr were in on the "TAKE DOWN EFFORT" on Trump, I can get you a link to why that Committee (SSCS) was in on the take down plans. There are many things I knew well before most anyone in America by reading this guy, he has to be someone that is in this field of analyzing DATA who quit a long time ago. You do not get a meeting with Durham unless you are onto something, I personally believe the info this man put together and then placed in front of Durham, pushed him onto this conspiracy case (a conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime) which I think he will eventually bring. Conspiracy is usually the easiest case to prove. All you have to do is tie their e-mails and timelines together.

This stuff has been known by me for over 4 years. We didn't know it was Georgia Tech, but by read the FISA Court Docs, we knew it was being done.

Well yea, of course Americans are protected from unlawful searches and seizures, except in the case of vital national security interests! But bugging POTUS is clearly questionable as a national security matter, and smells of politics.

No way the FBI didn't know this, in my view. Yes, conspiracy because it was obviously a number of people involved, including some Republican RINOs.

I can't say Rubio and Burr were involved--I have no way of determining that's factual or not. But I'm glad you agree that the episode was terrible, and believe that something will come of it! Thanks. :) I've read several books on it in the past couple of years, including Greg Jarrett's book and Dan Bongino's book--these were the best, in my opinion.
 

Ronald D Milam

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Well yea, of course Americans are protected from unlawful searches and seizures, except in the case of vital national security interests! But bugging POTUS is clearly questionable as a national security matter, and smells of politics.

No way the FBI didn't know this, in my view. Yes, conspiracy because it was obviously a number of people involved, including some Republican RINOs.

I can't say Rubio and Burr were involved--I have no way of determining that's factual or not. But I'm glad you agree that the episode was terrible, and believe that something will come of it! Thanks. :) I've read several books on it in the past couple of years, including Greg Jarrett's book and Dan Bongino's book--these were the best, in my opinion.

Both good books, but if you go back and listen to some of Dan's first shows he was getting much of his info from the Conservative Treehouse. As was the Great Lou Dobbs. Look on Youtube, Mark Levine's March 2 2017 show, he showed the President before anyone else that he was being spied on by using the Press' own words.

Let me see if I can find his report that tells why Rubio and Burr had to be in on everything.

You searched for James Wolfe - The Last Refuge

This link has every story in it about James Wolfe, the guy who leaked the story to the Ali Watkin girlfriend who eventually got a job with the NYT. (she was never his girlfriend that was SPIN to make it appear poor James got sucked by a gal he fell in love with) Wolfe leaked the FISA Warrant to this young 22 year old girl. He got 2 months suspened sentence !! WHY?

Because his Lawyers stated he would call the SSCI committee members as Witnesses to his trial !! Meaning he would tell on Burr, Rubio, and Mark Warner. (remember, at this time the Republicans had control). So, in a "strange case" the SSCI sent word asking for a light sentence for Jams Wolfe, they did this for only one reason, he had been leaking for them also and was promising to blow the lid off if he got major time. These stories also tell us why Finestein gave up her seat on such a powerful committee, she knew what had been done and left ahead of time.

McConnel, Rubi, Graham are all RINOS. As is Burr. Remember they would not let Trump appoint Ratcliff the first time !!
 
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Mugre Pinzon

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Unfortunately this is five years too late, and Durham is still playing political games. Durham should have been able to connect all the dots within a couple of months,

It's too early to judge Durham's work. It's possible he's being as methodical as possible so that if his findings are allowed to see the light of day they'll be bullet proof.
 

Randy Kluth

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Unfortunately this is five years too late, and Durham is still playing political games. Durham should have been able to connect all the dots within a couple of months, with Obama...Biden...Clinton...Jared...Rice...Lynch...Comey...Barr...Wray...Mueller... Storzk... Clapper... Brennan... etc.
and published a FULL REPORT as well as indictments against all these people for a criminal conspiracy and treason. So I am not at all impressed with simply a focus on Hillary, when Biden should be behind bars along with Obama. And nothing is going to happen to Hillary. Once again turning the focus from a stolen election to a loser candidate diverts people from the real crime of the century.

Yea, I've been pulled along by this evil current all along the way from the very beginning. It all started with Obama, as I see it. But it became worse with the entry of the far Left socialists. There used to be moderate Democrats. Suddenly, there came a purging of them, a radicalization of them, a polarization into more of a completely partisan group, a "take no prisoners" approach to politics.
 

Randy Kluth

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It's too early to judge Durham's work. It's possible he's being as methodical as possible so that if his findings are allowed to see the light of day they'll be bullet proof.

I think you're right. I got over my rage when he didn't release a report before the election. But he knows that with the improper mood in our country, he would not get recognized either by the courts or by the people, who were influenced by the Media. He's wisely chosen to drag this thing along, methodically, and fortunately we're now seeing a weakening of the Democrats' hold on the American people. Even the left-wing Media is beginning to question Biden's leadership. Maybe people will want to know how he even got into power?
 

Randy Kluth

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Both good books, but if you go back and listen to some of Dan's first shows he was getting much of his info from the Conservative Treehouse. As was the Great Lou Dobbs. Look on Youtube, Mark Levine's March 2 2017 show, he showed the President before anyone else that he was being spied on by using the Press' own words.

Let me see if I can find his report tat tells why Rubio and Burr had to be in on everything.

This link has every story in it about James Wolfe, the guy who leaked the story to the Ali Watkin girlfriend who eventually got a job with the NYT. (she was never his girlfriend that was SPIN to make it appear poor James got sucked by a gal he fell in love with) Wolfe leaked the FISA Warrant to this young 22 year old girl. He got 2 months suspened sentence !! WHY?

Because his Lawyers stated he would call the SSCI committee members !! Meaning he would tell on Burr, Rubio, and Mark Warner. (remember, at this time the Republicans had control). So, in a "strange case" the SSCI sent word asking for a light sentence for Jams Wolfe, they did this for inly one reason, he had been leaking for them also and was promising to blow the lid off if he got major time. These stories also tell us why Finestein gave up her seat on such a powerful committee, she knew what had been done and left ahead of time.

McConnel, Rubi, Graham are all RINOS. As is Burr. Remember they would not let Trump appoint Ratcliff the first time !!

I agree that McConnell and Graham are suspect, and it's possible that Rubio is as well--I just don't know as much as you do. Sounds like you really dug in? I have a couple of other books on my shelf, but I gave up reading when I realized nobody was getting any time...that is, if they are in bed with the Democrat Party.
 

Ronald D Milam

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I agree that McConnell and Graham are suspect, and it's possible that Rubio is as well--I just don't know as much as you do. Sounds like you really dug in? I have a couple of other books on my shelf, but I gave up reading when I realized nobody was getting any time...that is, if they are in bed with the Democrat Party.

I put the link in which I forgot.

I will put it here also.
You searched for James Wolfe - The Last Refuge

I was..... but I see this as God's PLAN....as a matter of fact I predicted they would steal an Election and God would (He would have to right...LOL) allow that to happen. At first I thought because the Anti-Christs time is at hand, still do, but I think God wants America to wake up before the Pre Trib Rapture. We have been the most faithful nation unto Spreading the Gospel in the last 200 years, God's now going to bless us by giving us a revival just before the Rapture, which I see as the fall of 2025. Because I look for the Middle of the week Asteroid, not the Rapture. We can know THE SEASON, but not the day nor the hour.

Most people really do not understand the Rapture. Every year the Jews (Israel) sent out two witnesses to spy out when the new moon came In, which not only started a new year but ended the Harvest, it could come over a 2 day period of time because Israel's calendar was based on a lunar moon calendar. So, they never knew the EXACT DAY nor the EXACT HOUR in which the "Harvest" (THINK Church Age) would end, that's all Jesus means there.

So, when the Father decides to send Jesus, that is just like the two witnesses spying out the new moon, they send word its time to blow the Trumps (Feast of Trumps) and they blew 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then every year the LAST TRUMP blew longer and louder than the other 99 and that officially ended the Harvest (Church Age) and started the New Year.

So, we can know THE SEASON as Jesus told us in the Fig Tree Parable in Matt. 24:32-35, but we can't know the EXACT DAY nor the EXACT HOUR, just like the Jews didn't know the exact day nor hour because it could be either one of the two day period of time. But we can see the signs and know THE SEASON. What is the easiest sign for us to see? Well, we see all of these signs, we see it coming, but the easiest sign to peg as per the timing of THE SEASON, is when will the Revelation chapter 8 Asteroid hit us!! Well, we see everything around us, we know the time is very, very near so lets do what Jesus said and LOOK UP, to the skies in Luke 21. We can see an Asteroid years ahead via looking into deep space, some wisenheimer at NASA has named an asteroid heading our way Apophis, the old Egyptian god of Chaos !! We can see its supposed to come within 19 K miles on April 13 (Friday...God loves giving people there own fears) 2029. So, I am certain that with everything going on, that is the one, besides I was told in 1986 in a vision that the "Man of Sin is Here". So, now since I myself understand the Rapture is pre trib, all I have to do is take 3 1/2 years off of the Middle of the week DOTL(Rev. 8 Mountain) event and I get the fall of 2025 as the Rapture, I can know THE SEASON, but not the exact day nor hour !!

This was going to be short and sweet, lol.
 
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Randy Kluth

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I put the link in which I forgot.

I will put it here also.

I was..... but I see this as God's PLAN....as a matter of fact I predicted they would steal an Election and God would (He would have to right...LOL) allow that to happen. At first I thought because the Anti-Christs time is at hand, still do, but I think God wants America to wake up before the Pre Trib Rapture. We have been the most faithful nation unto Spreading the Gospel in the last 200 years, God's now going to bless us by giving us a revival just before the Rapture, which I see as the fall of 2025. Because I look for the Middle of the week Asteroid, not the Rapture. We can know THE SEASON, but not the day nor the hour.

Most people really do not understand the Rapture. Every year the Jews (Israel) sent out two witnesses to spy out when the new moon came on, which not only started a new year but ended the Harvest, it could come over a 2 day period of time because Israel' calendar was based on a lunar moon calendar. So, they never knew the EXACT DAY nor the EXACT HOUR in which the "Harvest" (THINK Church Age) would end, that's all Jesus means.

So, when the Father decides to send Jesus, that is just like the two witnesses spying out the new moon, they send word its time to blow the Trumps (Feast of Trumps) and they blew 9 sets of 11 or 99 times, then every year the LAST TRUMP blew longer and louder than the other 99 and that officially ended the Harvest (Church Age) and started the New Year.

So, we can know THE SEASON as Jesus told us in the Fig Tree Parable in Matt. 24:32-35, but we can't know the EXACT DAY nor the EXACT HOUR, just like the Jews didn't know the exact day nor hour because it could be other a two day period of time. But w can see the signs and know THE SEASON. What is the easiest sign for is to see? Well, we see all of these signs, we see it coming, but the easiest sign to peg as per the timing of THE SEASON, is when will the Revelation chapter 8 Asteroid hit us!! Well, we see everything around us, we know the time is very, very near so lets do what Jesus said and LOOK UP, to the skies in Luke 21. We can see an Asteroid some wisenheimer at NASA has named Apophis, the old Egyptian god of Chaos !! We can see its supposed to come within 19 K miles on April 13 (Friday...God loves giving people there own fears) 2029. So, I am certain that with everything going on, that is the one, besides I was told in 1986 in a vision that the Man of Sin is Here". So, now since I understand the Rapture is pre trib, all I have to do is take 3 1/2 years off of the Middle of the week DOTL event and I get the fall of 2025 as the Rapture, I can know THE SEASON, but not the exact day nor hour !!

This was going to be short and sweet, lol.

I was a Pretrib for a time when I first completely committed my life to Christ. But I had been raised up in a church that didn't teach Pretrib at all. So when I memorized 2 Thessalonians entirely, I was wide open to what I read, with no input from any brand of eschatology. Some of it I didn't understand, like the part about the Restrainer. But it seemed very clear to me that Paul was teaching Postribulationism, that Antichrist had to appear before the Return of Christ for the Church, and that Christ would specifically come with the purpose of destroying Anti-Christ. That is Postribulationism!

And so, from the time I memorized this letter of Paul I've been a confirmed and steadfast Postribulationist. Well, I did have doubts when I moved down to Orange County CA and listened to Chuck Smith day after day, proclaiming the Pretrib Rapture. But I felt that I should believe what I was reading, and not doubt it simply because people were putting their own slant on the message. I did *not* see a Pretribulational Theology in the entire Bible! Trying to force a Pretrib Rapture into the Revelation is certainly possible, but I never did see it as a clear teaching, and so concluded that it wasn't worth considering. The Holy Spirit does not have trouble speaking His mind when He wants us to believe something!

Anyway, you're an interesting guy. Don't be too upset if we disagree on this. I don't make it a criteria for fellowship, obviously. Take care!
 
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Ronald D Milam

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I was a Pretrib for a time when I first completely committed my life to Christ. But I had been raised up in a church that didn't teach Pretrib at all. So when I memorized 2 Thessalonians entirely, I was wide open to what I read, with no input from any brand of eschatology. Some of it I didn't understand, like the part about the Restrainer.
Remember, we all know this, Satan will never stop trying to confuse the Church, he's is the god of this world. He seeks to confuse wherever possible. Babel means confusion, that's why I contend that Great Babylon is just this whole world under Satan's rule of confusion. ANYWAY....

2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 is all about Paul trying to put the Thessalonians minds at ease that they were now in the Day of God's Wrath, and thus had not made the Rapture. That's why he starts out, as concerning the "Gathering unto Christ Jesus". Then he says let no one make you fear that you have come into God's Wrath, for THAT DAY (God's Wrath) can not come until a Departure (see verse 1, The Gathering unto Christ Jesus is THE SUBJECT........No Faith seen anywhere) comes first AND until the Man of Sin shows up (So, STOP WORRYING)....Remember I told you this when I was with you before !!

The Restrainer finish the proofs off. People can't discern the Old English, especially when they have letters like this Paul never meant to be "Thus saith the Lord scriptures", else he would have clarified in much more detail instead of saying, REMEMBER.........when I was with you I told you things things, these Letters were a Pastor pastoring his flock in Thessolanika, not a man thinking about writing thus saith the Lord scriptures, else he would have been far more detailed, but they knew what he told them when he was with them !! We don't, but I don't need to, he used DEPART, no apostacy, the English morphed the word into something never intended by Paul, I should say Satan did this.

So, how does the Restrainer being removed prove further that its the Church being taken out of this world? Well, for one, we now the Holy Spirit is not going to be taken our of this world, he is seen saving souls during the 70th week and bringing plagues onto the wicked. Angels sure ain't got the power to bring those plagues, they are called God's Wrath for a reason.

The Holy Spirits vessel it taken out of this world. When Moses' staff came down Israel started losing, God taught us a LIFE LESSON there, if we heed it. God works through us, that's why the Holy Spirit became much more effective after the cross. He had permanent access unto cleansed men who were now under Christ Jesus' blood 24/7/365.

The TIMING only fits pre trib, forget about finding that which is a secret, when we do find it like in 2 Thess. 2 Satan has twisted it. So, Paul told us, we allowed it to be twisted. But, other places prove the timing.

A demonstration here usually works better. If there was a large bowl (Vessel or the Church) in the woods that stayed full of water (Holy Spirit) continually, and animals came and drink, then one day I walked into the woods and took the bowl away, but poured out the water, the water is still there, but its vessel has been taken away, now its harder for the animals to lap up off the ground. We are the vessel of the Holy Spirit. When we are removed, the holy spirits vessel is removed, not the holy spirit, He works through us. That is why it says he is removed from blocking Satan's coming Anti-Christ's path, we are that which binds, via the Holy Spirit. Only when we leave can he come forth, the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.

When did the Beast go away? When the Church prospered, thus the Five Beasts (when you take out the Church Age) fit together perfectly and the 5th Beast can be said to be a part of the Fourth Beast's kingdom. Likewise the Dan. 2 Statue fits together perfectly with no Church Age. We are the vessel which delivered the mortal wound to the Beast. Satan took ONE WORD (Departure) and managed to twist it into Apostasy, instead of DEPARTURE. He's is a sneaky liar of course, he used two feuding Churches (The Church of England and the RCC) to pull this feat off.

God Bless.... yes, we knew we are going at the same time, very soon, so it really doesn't matter as per our salvation, I just have to let it be known so unbelievers will get a sense of urgency, they need to know, imho, that if they miss the rapture, they will go through God's Wrath Period. And most likely will be killed for their faith, if not by a giant asteroid. Or they will take the Mark of the Beast costing them eternal damnation, all because they believed they were going to have to go through the 70th week anyway.
 
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Randy Kluth

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2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 is all about Paul trying to put the Thessalonians minds at ease that they were now in the Day of God's Wrath, and thus had not made the Rapture. That's why he starts out, as concerning the "Gathering unto Christ Jesus". Then he says let no one make you fear that you have come into God's Wrath, for THAT DAY (God's Wrath) can not come until a Departure (see verse 1, The Gathering unto Christ Jesus is THE SUBJECT........No Faith seen anywhere) comes first AND until the Man of Sin shows up (So, STIP WORRYING)....Remember I told you this when I was with you before !!

I just don't read it that way, although it certainly makes sense. If Christians were afraid that they had entered into the time of God's wrath, then they certainly needed to be comforted that the time had not yet come.

But it seems to me more likely that Paul was warning the Christians about a deception brought on by the claim of a false Kingdom of God. He didn't want them to follow a Christian cult that would lead them astray. So what was it--a concern designed to assuage their fears or a concern that they be led in the wrong direction? Based on Jesus' earlier warning to watch out for "false Christs," I believe Paul was just saying the same thing, to watch out for "false Christs.

I see no indication that the Christians were afraid they had entered into a period of wrath. Rather, they were concerned that they had missed out on a move of God that had already been taking place. They were certainly going through tribulation of sorts, and needed to be assured that that was normal. Jesus had already taught his disciples that they would have to go through various tribulations.

So the idea that Christians suffer tribulation in no way implied that they had entered into God's wrath. Even going through the tribulation of Israel, which Jesus said that nation would suffer, did not mean that Jewish believers had likewise entered into God's wrath. But they certainly did enter into the time when Jews faced God's wrath against the unbelieving nation.

So, how does the Restrainer being removed prove further that its the Church being taken out of this world? Well, for one, we now the Holy Spirit is not going to be taken our of this world, he is seen saving souls during the 70th week and bringing plagues onto the wicked. Angels sure ain't got the power to bring those plagues, they are called God's Wrath for a reason.

...We are the vessel of the Holy Spirit. When we are removed, the holy spirits vessel is removed, not the holy spirit, He works through us. That is why it says he is removed from blocking Satan's coming Anti-Christ's path, we are that which binds, via the Holy Spirit. Only when we leave can he come firth, the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.

When did the Beast go away? When the Church prospered, thus the Five Beasts (when you take out the Church Age) fit together perfectly and the 5th Beast can be said to be a part of the Fourth Beast's kingdom. Likewise the Dan. 2 Statue fits together perfectly with no Church Age. We are the vessel which delivered the mortal wound to the Beast. Satan took ONE WORD (Departure) and managed to twist it into Apostasy, instead of DEPARTURE. He's is a sneaky liar of course, he used two feuding Churches (The Church of England and the RCC) to pull this feat off.

Sorry, we see things so differently. I do believe the word means "apostasy," a departure from the faith, a revealing of the Antichrist. The Great Image of Dan 2 is a discussion all to itself. I believe the NT era is the era of the 4th Beast of Dan 7, the age of Roman, or European, Civilization.

The "feet" of the Great Image cannot be fulfilled, which is the Antichrist stage, until the 2 Legs break up into 10 units, or 10 states. The Eastern and Western parts of Europe have already broken up into at least 10 states, and so we have entered into the time when Antichrist is soon to arise.

Thus, the Restrainer is Roman Civilization, which prevents Antichrist from arising until the proper time. That's how the Early Church seems to have viewed it, and so, I've adopted that view myself. Holding different views isn't "satanic" for me--it's just us trying to wrap our brains around a very old book that has much to say to us today, if we can figure it out.

I don't "take sides" on these schools of prophecy--I'm just taking a position that I personally am comfortable with. In reality, I've held many different positions, as the years have gone by, because there have been many schools of interpretation. We should adopt the one that we're most comfortable with. Thanks for explaining to me your views! :)
 
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michaelvpardo

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I try not to be political as that's what caused my paternal grandparents to be kicked out of Spain, but the Democratic Party's hatred and attacks on the former POTUS were evident from the moment he took office. I've never been a Trump supporter, but I do support the office and the constitution. I haven't really appreciated any of our Presidents since George W. Bush, but he, like all men, had his failings.
The one thing that I have noticed about this new hysteria is that it's been hyped by the current POTUS for political gain (His approval rating is down to about 34% over the entire population), pushed by ABC News, the Democrat's version of Pravda, condemned by Ukrainian leadership as unhelpful, and leading to huge arms sales deals for our government contractors. (It's good to know that the military industrial complex is still alive and kicking.)
The Biden administration isn't particularly smart, but they are politically clever. If the Russians do enter a military campaign against their cultural and familal relatives in Ukraine, Biden looks like he's gotten it right. If they don't,the Biden administration can claim success as keepers of the peace. That's what you call setting up a win/win situation.
The underlying motive definitely appears to be control of fossil fuel resources, profit, and the green agenda of the great reset.

I don't see how this influences the gospel or the work of the church, but exposing the hidden works of darkness is always a good thing.
 
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Randy Kluth

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I try not to be political as that's what caused my paternal grandparents to be kicked out of Spain, but the Democratic Party's hatred and attacks on the former POTUS were evident from the moment he took office. I've never been a Trump supporter, but I do support the office and the constitution. I haven't really appreciated any of our Presidents since George W. Bush, but he, like all men, had his failings.
The one thing that I have noticed about this new hysteria is that it's been hyped by the current POTUS for political gain (His approval rating is down to about 34% over the entire population), pushed by ABC News, the Democrat's version of Pravda, condemned by Ukrainian leadership as unhelpful, and leading to huge arms sales deals for our government contractors. (It's good to know that the military industrial complex is still alive and kicking.)
The Biden administration isn't particularly smart, but they are politically clever. If the Russians do enter a military campaign against their cultural and familal relatives in Ukraine, Biden looks like he's gotten it right. If they don't,the Biden administration can claim success as keepers of the peace. That's what you call setting up a win/win situation.
The underlying motive definitely appears to be control of fossil fuel resources, profit, and the green agenda of the great reset.

I don't see how this influences the gospel or the work of the church, but exposing the hidden works of darkness is always a good thing.

You have some very interesting thoughts, but I think I don't know enough about your insinuations? Why is Biden "getting it right?" If Russia assumes control over Ukraine, then we have a new expansion of an aggressive nation into an empire again, and linked together with another great and aggressive nation, China, we have a league that can threaten world domination and world war.

Energy needs has a way of softening intellectual opposition to those who have the resources. Though the West may be sincere in threatening Russia if it is aggressive, that doesn't mean opposition won't disappear over time. Usually, compromises are made, the new reality accepted, and an aggressive nation is simply encouraged to expand even farther.

I have an unusual view of this, though it may be completely wrong. I think that Russia and Europe may, in the future, do a complete turnaround and join forces, creating an unstoppable Europe. Russia may become more fearful of the Chinese than of Europe, which is fragmented. After all, Russia is both European and Asian, with the most important centers focused towards Europe.

Thanks for your interesting thoughts. I'd love to hear more? For what it's worth, I also liked George Bush Jr. But I turned towards Trump because the Democrats under Obama had turned so far to the Left that I felt the Republican Party could no longer compromise with them. They needed an independent operator, which is what I believed Trump would be.

I do believe the hate-Trump rhetoric is purely Democrat-inspired propaganda. For 4 years in office, Trump was harassed by the Russian Hoax and by false impeachments. Every President has had dirt that could be scooped up, and nobody would have to go far back into the past to find some. But again, I appreciate your perspective, and I'd like to hear more.
 
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Enoch111

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They needed an independent operator, which is what I believed Trump would be.
Trump was ostensibly an independent operator but he should never had thrown in his lot with the Republicans (who all hated him). He should have formed a third independent political party which stood for the actual conservative position. Then those who formerly supported the RINOs would have all joined that party. Which means that the RINOs would have become history.

As matters stand, they are all supporting Biden and the Communist Democrats, and approving almost all of Biden's nominations, when those people are enemies of America. Lou Dobbs just spoke out the other day and called Kevin McCarthy a RINO. And the book Red Handed shows that a whole bunch of Republicans (including George Bush Sr) are in the pockets of Communist China.

Red-Handed: How American Elites Get Rich Helping China Win
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Handed-American-Elites-Helping-China/dp/0063061147
 
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Randy Kluth

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Trump was ostensibly an independent operator but he should never had thrown in his lot with the Republicans (who all hated him). He should have formed a third independent political party which stood for the actual conservative position. Then those who formerly supported the RINOs would have all joined that party. Which means that the RINOs would have become history.

As matters stand, they are all supporting Biden and the Communist Democrats, and approving almost all of Biden's nominations, when those people are enemies of America. Lou Dobbs just spoke out the other day and called Kevin McCarthy a RINO. And the book Red Handed shows that a whole bunch of Republicans (including George Bush Sr) are in the pockets of Communist China.

Red-Handed: How American Elites Get Rich Helping China Win
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Handed-American-Elites-Helping-China/dp/0063061147

What you're calling RINOs are really just moderate Republicans who are excessively "political," or accommodating to the current "winds of change." They don't like "abrasive politics," but are very quick to sell the house. Lindsay Graham is like this, as are others. The Bush Family is not so much "accommodating" to the political winds, but actually believe in producing an alloy of both parties, ie they believe in Establishment Politics.

That being said, I actually like Lindsay Graham and some of the other "softer" Republicans. I even liked, for a while, Mitt Romney and John McCain. But as I've been saying, the Democrat Party got so radical under Obama that an "alloy" of the 2 parties was no longer possible, in my view.

So I'm still all in as a Trump man, and think you're spot on about a 3rd Party. The *only* thing that holds me back from this thinking is a matter of pragmatism. If it isn't practical to be able to win with this arrangement, then it isn't worth doing. Conservatives have always started with a handicap, because people always trend towards the sloppiest give-away state that gives them the most freedom to be anything they want to be.

Therefore, being pragmatic, I think Conservatives do need to build coalitions--just not like the Bush Family had been doing. That's no longer possible in the era of the Green New Deal and full on unbridled immigration. The Democrats spend money like it's worthless, and indeed it's becoming worthless. It's now just a matter of which department gets the most, the military-industrial party, the energy sector, welfare?

But middle America may soon wake up to realize that their money and their children's money is all being spent. We've all been given dollars that buys nothing. My brother sold his house the other day for what seemed like a lot of money for that house. But now that he has the money in hand, he can't find anywhere to get a house even as nice as he sold!
 

Enoch111

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What you're calling RINOs are really just moderate Republicans who are excessively "political," or accommodating to the current "winds of change."
They are all Democrats pretending to be Republicans. Here is a good example:
"Yeah, you read that right. Spencer is vetoing a school choice bill after previously receiving $75,000 in campaign funds from the National Education Association, the nation’s largest teachers union and one that has caused incredible harm to children during the COVID-19 pandemic. What kind of Republican gets that kind of payout from an organization that almost exclusively funds Democrats? Utah voters should have probably asked that question before electing Spencer."
Republican Party Rot Rears Its Ugly Head
 

michaelvpardo

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You have some very interesting thoughts, but I think I don't know enough about your insinuations? Why is Biden "getting it right?" If Russia assumes control over Ukraine, then we have a new expansion of an aggressive nation into an empire again, and linked together with another great and aggressive nation, China, we have a league that can threaten world domination and world war.

Energy needs has a way of softening intellectual opposition to those who have the resources. Though the West may be sincere in threatening Russia if it is aggressive, that doesn't mean opposition won't disappear over time. Usually, compromises are made, the new reality accepted, and an aggressive nation is simply encouraged to expand even farther.

I have an unusual view of this, though it may be completely wrong. I think that Russia and Europe may, in the future, do a complete turnaround and join forces, creating an unstoppable Europe. Russia may become more fearful of the Chinese than of Europe, which is fragmented. After all, Russia is both European and Asian, with the most important centers focused towards Europe.

Thanks for your interesting thoughts. I'd love to hear more? For what it's worth, I also liked George Bush Jr. But I turned towards Trump because the Democrats under Obama had turned so far to the Left that I felt the Republican Party could no longer compromise with them. They needed an independent operator, which is what I believed Trump would be.

I do believe the hate-Trump rhetoric is purely Democrat-inspired propaganda. For 4 years in office, Trump was harassed by the Russian Hoax and by false impeachments. Every President has had dirt that could be scooped up, and nobody would have to go far back into the past to find some. But again, I appreciate your perspective, and I'd like to hear more.
What I meant by "getting it right" is that Joe Biden has been stating repeatedly that it is Putin's intent to invade. He personally has been banging the war drums and parading out high ranking members of the military to agree with his assessment. I never knew he was such a war monger, but I've known for a while that he's a practiced liar, a self righteous and arrogant man, and prone to use American military and economic power to coerce other nations.