Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

[user]

But since it isn't, (McAlister and his false teaching not withstanding) then nothing you (or your denominations) says matters one way or another.

Simple as that. MY BIBLE has more than i verse in it. Sorry about yours.

What might be those salvation verses in your Bible? Can you list a few?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What might be those salvation verses in your Bible? Can you list a few?

Eph 2:8,9 covers things nicely.

 

[user]

Eph 2:8,9 covers things nicely.

Thank you. Who were the epistles written to?
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus..."

The epistles were written to the saints which were saved through the book of Acts. Therefore, Acts chapter two becomes very relevant.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Note they now believe (being pricked in their heart, and asking what shall we do) and Peter does Not say, Well I see you now believe, therefore DO NOTHING, go home and be ye warmed and filled.

 

[Titus]

Not quite.

Okay, you are one of the 3000 at Pentecost.

You feel guilty for Peter saying you crucified Christ.

You stand up and ask Peter for your group, "men and brethren, what must we do to reconcile with our sin"?

Peter tells you to repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and God will graciously give you the Holy Ghost.

Isn't that an easy scenario to accept?

You kill the son of God and all you have to do to get your slate clean is to obey Acts 2:38?

Remission of your sin of killing Jesus is found in being baptized in the name of the man you killed...now that is real faith!

Make sense yet?

You are not following what I am telling you.

You teach Acts 2:38 is all there is to obey in Jesus' gospel.
Acts 2:38 does not even teach faith in Christ.

Acts 2:37 shows they had faith in Christ.

My point: you must go to other verses other than Acts 2:38 to learn the whole gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.

You are wrong to say , all one is required to do in Jesus' gospel is to obey Acts 2:38.

If that be true, then we do not have to believe. Belief is not mentioned in Acts 2:38.
Nor is confession, Acts 8:37-38 ; Romans 10:9-10.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Thank you. Who were the epistles written to?

Chuckle!! That's the 'ol "It was written to THEM, not to US" manoever. Totally expected. argument rejected without a second thought.

 

[PinSeeker]

1Peter 3:20-21
Who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the atk was a preparing, in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us--water immersion..... It was water that saved Noah as immersion is the antitype that saves us in Jesus' gospel.

Well, it was not water that saved Noah, though he and his family did go through water ~ more on that in a moment. But beyond that, if I remember correctly... :)... Noah was in a boat (we call it an ark... :)) the whole time and therefore, quite apart from immersion, stayed quite dry... :) That boat carried him and his family through the water ~ again, more on this in a moment.

First, though, yes, there is a "type," a "shadow" of Jesus in the story of Noah and the great flood, but it is not the water, but the ark itself. Noah's ark represents Jesus in that story, as Noah and his family are carried ~ delivered, saved ~ through the flood, the water, which actually represents trial and tribulation, which, as James tells us, God gives us to test our faith and therefore produce steadfastness, which will eventually have its full effect and make us perfect and complete, lacking in nothing (James 1:3-4). We can also look at Psalm 23 in the same light and remember that even though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we can fear no evil, for He is with us, prepares a table before us in the presence of our enemies, anoints our heads with oil, and our cup overflows, and goodness and mercy will follow us all the days of our lives. Jesus saves. He is the means of our salvation. We are saved by His blood, the imputation of His righteousness... in this way we are predestined, then called and justified, and ultimately will be glorified by God (Romans 8:30). So...

Through water.

...okay, yes, through water (see above), not from water, or out of water, or because of water, Well, being born of water and the Spirit. Physical water baptism is not in view there, either in the Old Testament (Genesis 6-8, Psalm 23) or the New (John 3, 1 Peter 3). This is about spiritual rebirth, which is of God... Salvation is of the Lord. Christians ~ both in Old Testament times, as we see with Noah and his family, and in New Testament times, as is clear in Jesus's conversation with Nicodemus in John 3 ~ are saved the same way: being "born of water and the Spirit," It's not the water that saves or the physical act of water baptism that saves. Again, salvation is of the Lord (Psalm 37:39; Lamentations 3:26, Revelation 19:1); and yes, through faith, Ephesians 2:8-10 ("For by grace (we) have been saved through faith. And this is not (our) own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them").

There is also an antitype which now saves us--(Noah's ark)..... If Noah's ark saved Noah, then Noah's ark is the antitype that saves us today. Not immersion!

See, this is absolutely true. This seems like a total about-face from how this post started. Puzzling. But this I agree with. Yes, Jesus and His righteousness is what saves. And this is imputed to us through the work of the Spirit, Who, again, in the words of Jesus to Nicodemus in John 3, gives us new birth by water and, well, the Spirit. As John the Baptist says in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16, Jesus Himself baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[user]

Chuckle!! That's the 'ol "It was written to THEM, not to US" manoever. Totally expected. argument rejected without a second thought.

No. You missed what I said. And, you clearly avoided the rest of the post.

Please address the following - - verse 37 shows they now believe (being pricked in their heart, and asking what shall we do), note Peter does Not say, Well I see you now believe, therefore DO NOTHING, go home and be ye warmed and filled...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[user]

The phrase "born of water and the Spirit" is not to be separated in the way that you suppose. "Water" here does not refer to the physical water of water baptism, which is an act of man. The background here is Ezekiel 36:25-27, where God promises, "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean... And I will give you a new heart... And I will put my Spirit within you."

You believe it says this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(non-psychical undetermined clean water which is not water) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water(non-psychical undetermined clean water which is not water); what doth hinder me to be baptized?

 

[PinSeeker]

You believe it says this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(non-psychical undetermined clean water which is not water) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water(non-psychical undetermined clean water which is not water); what doth hinder me to be baptized?

LOL! Very strange. But yes, Jesus is most assuredly talking of spiritual ~ administered by the Holy Spirit... "of water and the Spirit" is all one phrase there ~ baptism in John 3... new spiritual birth. It is very different than what we see in Acts 8, where the eunuch ~ who is surely not God in the flesh :) ~ is talking about physical water baptism.

To not see this difference ~ or to just reject it ~ is kind of mind-boggling, but you're certainly your own person and can hold to what you like. It's kind of like that old Simon and Garfunkel song, The Boxer. You know: "...still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..."

Grace and peace to you.

 

[user]

LOL! Very strange. But yes, Jesus is most assuredly talking of spiritual ~ administered by the Holy Spirit... "of water and the Spirit" is all one phrase there ~ baptism in John 3... new spiritual birth.

You are now changing your position from this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(non-psychical clean water which is not water) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

To this....

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(Spirit) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[PinSeeker]

You are now changing your position from this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(non-psychical clean water which is not water) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

To this....

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(Spirit) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

No, you are totally missing ~ somehow ~ the context of John 3:5. Both before and now, although slightly differently than before, but the result is the same.

Let me ask you this:

If someone came up to you and said, "I just experienced something I had never experienced before. It was a trial by fire, and I passed with flying colors!" Would you then ask him/her where he/she... or what part of his/her body... got burned? Of course not, right? You'd immediately know that they didn't literally walk through fire, and probably say something like, "That's great, man! I bet you feel really good about yourself."

Try to make the connection. It shouldn't be hard.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No. You missed what I said. And, you clearly avoided the rest of the post.

SO how do you account for the FACT that I was saved, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit on a Wednesday back in '63, and on the following Sunday I was baptized by immersion in the three titles (as is typical), and subsequently Baptized in the Holy Spirit 10 years later (with signs following), and never paid a BIT OF ATTENTION to your supposed "magic Acts 2:38 fomula".

 

[user]

If someone came up to you and said, "I just experienced something I had never experienced before. It was a trial by fire, and I passed with flying colors!" Would you then ask him/her where he/she... or what part of his/her body... got burned? Try to make the connection. It shouldn't be hard.

So to make the "connection" with John 3:5 I'll have to reject the water as H2o and put on gym shoes for the acrobatics while ignoring the simplicity of truth...


John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

changing your position from this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(non-psychical clean water which is not water) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

To this....

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(Spirit) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Kinda like this, eh? Changing this:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

to THIS:

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is saved, Should THEN BE
baptized, shall [NOT TO] be saved, BUT TO BE obedient;
[in order "NOT to contradict" Paul...]

When will this kind of chicanery Cease to exist? In heaven??
or understanding this?:

God's Approval!

GRACE and Peace...

 

[Phoneman777]

If I may.

The Acts 2 salvation message was originally known as a Spirit led work allowing the adhering of Acts 2:38.

The "works" that modernists are confusing are the works of the Law as spoken of by Paul.

Acts 2:38 is not OT Law, but grace.

Now, "Christians" are anti work of any kind, but hypocrites because even deciding and confessing is a work.

I disagree...choice is not works, it's "thought". If thought was works, we'd all be guilty of legalism, for only by "choosing" Christ can we be saved. I realize Calvinists disagree, but as a non-Calvinist, I firmly believe the Bible when it says over and over that we must "choose ye this day", and "harden not" our hearts, and "come to" Jesus, and "confess our sins", etc., etc.

All these are cognitive choice, not outward works of obedience. Works of obedience, or disobedience, are simply the evidence of the choice to enthrone Jesus or not in our heart.

 

[Phoneman777]

And this is a direct refutation of what Paul says in Romans 9:16-18 -- "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy... He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."

What I said is in full harmony with this verse. Of course we can't declare ourselves spotless by sheer force of will...only Jesus' blood can do that. However, Peter makes it clear salvation is obtained only by repentance, which is a choice we all must make. As stated previously, choice is not works, it's "thought".

I'm not sure I would call them "spiritual adolescents"... Yes, in some cases, what you say is true. But we should all be careful of this. Notice again Romans 9:16-18, quoted above.

It's an apt term for many Christians. Just the mention of Christian Obligation stirs up mob mentality in them. They're willing to acknowledge the Path of the Just has on its right side the ditch of "Legalism" and they rail against it day and night...while refusing to acknowledge the left ditch of License, the infamous OSAS License to Sin. Legalism is "Law without Love" but License is "Love without Law". Satan is happy for us to fall in either one.

Again, Romans 9:16-18 is relevant here. Paul talks of human will (which includes our thoughts and our choices -- intangible things we do) and exertion (outward actions and deeds -- tangible things we do). Tangible or intangible, they are all works of man.

Of course thoughts require electro-chemical "work" but this work is not to be confused with "works based salvation". How else are we going to repent and be baptized if we don't "choose" to? Make no mistake, if we don't "choose" to repent, "choose" to abide in the Vine, "choose" Thy will over my will. If our choices matter not, why all this talk about our need to choose?

As for John in 1 John 2:3-4, he is affirming that our obedience, and even our desire to obey, is a direct and inevitable result of God's having saved us, and that if there is no obedience, then that is outward evidence of our having fooled ourselves into believing that we are saved.

I think you've just restated in a different way the same thing I said...obedience is outward evidence of us having been saved, and the lack thereof is evidence to the contrary.

"OSAS," properly understood, is an irrefutable truth of God, a promise of God, and all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus. But it is most assuredly not a license to sin by any stretch of the imagination. Paul himself heads off this very misunderstanding (that being saved is somehow a "license to sin," or that we should sin all the more) throughout Romans 6 (emphasis added):

Matthew 24:12-13 KJV destroys the idea of OSAS. It plainly contrasts the "many" of verse 12 who allowed abounding iniquity to kill their love "cold" and dead -- with "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".

So, how does this destroy OSAS?

The word "love" is "A-G-A-P-E" - Godly, sacrificial, selfless love which God imparts ONLY to His children, not to the wicked.

How do we know the wicked do not partake of "agape"?

Because 1 John 5:2-3 KJV says the "agape" love of God's children is known by the keeping of His commandments, yet Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to.

Therefore, the "agape" of those "many" becomes cold and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end", and will be lost, in contrast to the one who "endures to the end" and is "saved".

Perhaps you're thinking "cold" doesn't necessarily mean "dead", therefore these "many" are still in good shape, right? Let me ask you, What temperature are the Laodiceans? That's right...lukewarm...which is enough for them to be spat out of Jesus' mouth. How much more spit-worthy are these "many" saints who are "cold cold cold"? No, friend, OSAS dies right here. We must "endure unto the end" if we are to be "saved", according to Jesus Himself.

 

[Titus]

What I said is in full harmony with this verse. Of course we can't declare ourselves spotless by sheer force of will...only Jesus' blood can do that. However, Peter makes it clear salvation is obtained only by repentance, which is a choice we all must make. As stated previously, choice is not works, it's "thought".
It's an apt term for many Christians. Just the mention of Christian Obligation stirs up mob mentality in them. They're willing to acknowledge the Path of the Just has on its right side the ditch of "Legalism" and they rail against it day and night...while refusing to acknowledge the left ditch of License, the infamous OSAS License to Sin. Legalism is "Law without Love" but License is "Love without Law". Satan is happy for us to fall in either one.
Of course thoughts require electro-chemical "work" but this work is not to be confused with "works based salvation". How else are we going to repent and be baptized if we don't "choose" to? Make no mistake, if we don't "choose" to repent, "choose" to abide in the Vine, "choose" Thy will over my will. If our choices matter not, why all this talk about our need to choose?
I think you've just restated in a different way the same thing I said...obedience is outward evidence of us having been saved, and the lack thereof is evidence to the contrary.
Matthew 24:12-13 KJV destroys the idea of OSAS. It plainly contrasts the "many" of verse 12 who allowed abounding iniquity to kill their love "cold" and dead -- with "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".

So, how does this destroy OSAS?

The word "love" is "A-G-A-P-E" - Godly, sacrificial, selfless love which God imparts ONLY to His children, not to the wicked.

How do we know the wicked do not partake of "agape"?

Because 1 John 5:2-3 KJV says the "agape" love of God's children is known by the keeping of His commandments, yet Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to.

Therefore, the "agape" of those "many" becomes cold and dead, leaving them unable to "endure to the end", and will be lost, in contrast to the one who "endures to the end" and is "saved".

Perhaps you're thinking "cold" doesn't necessarily mean "dead", therefore these "many" are still in good shape, right? Let me ask you, What temperature are the Laodiceans? That's right...lukewarm...which is enough for them to be spat out of Jesus' mouth. How much more spit-worthy are these "many" saints who are "cold cold cold"? No, friend, OSAS dies right here. We must "endure unto the end" if we are to be "saved", according to Jesus Himself.

Calvinism is a domino religion.
Knock down one of the Letters of TUILP and just like dominos they all fall down.
Because pinseeker knows this about his theology.
You will never get him to admit, Perseverance of the saints is error.
John Calvin will not allow it.

You are correct that Perseverance of the saints or as the Baptist sect likes to call it, OSAS is false doctrine.

 

[user]

SO how do you account for the FACT that I was saved, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit on a Wednesday back in '63, and on the following Sunday I was baptized by immersion in the three titles (as is typical), and subsequently Baptized in the Holy Spirit 10 years later (with signs following), and never paid a BIT OF ATTENTION to your supposed "magic Acts 2:38 fomula".

Is not a magic formula, it actually encompasses the salvation doctrine and the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection, which is applied in the salvation application in the book of Acts...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent = Death
Water Baptism = Burial
Receive Holy Spirit = Resurrection


Paul writes to these two churches regarding the burial and raised from the dead...

Romans 6:4, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life"

Colossians 2:12, "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

 

[Truther]

But since it isn't, (McAlister and his false teaching not withstanding) then nothing you (or your denominations) says matters one way or another.

Simple as that. MY BIBLE has more than i verse in it. Sorry about yours.

You and I have the same scripture per Acts 2:38.

It commands baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins per the Apostle Peter.

Is Peter's nickname "McAlister" to you?

You call Peter that?

 

[Truther]

You are not following what I am telling you.

You teach Acts 2:38 is all there is to obey in Jesus' gospel.
Acts 2:38 does not even teach faith in Christ.

Acts 2:37 shows they had faith in Christ.

My point: you must go to other verses other than Acts 2:38 to learn the whole gospel of Jesus Christ to be saved.

You are wrong to say , all one is required to do in Jesus' gospel is to obey Acts 2:38.

If that be true, then we do not have to believe. Belief is not mentioned in Acts 2:38.
Nor is confession, Acts 8:37-38 ; Romans 10:9-10.

Are you saying Acts 2:38 was the wrong message the 3000 at Pentecost needed to hear?

Should Peter have took a chill pill and quote modern evangelists, saying "just believe"?

Or, are you guys directly disobeying Peter per finding remission of sins via baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?

I heard the devil does not mind baptism, as long as the name of Jesus is not spoken during it.

He loves infant baptism and the 3 title baptism, but hates Jesus' name baptism.

Pick a side.