The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[OzSpen]

Not even 'almost.'

Rom. 10:4 refers to the Mosaic Law that was nailed to the cross, NOT the 10 Commandments.

Gal. 3:23-25 Refers to being UNDER the Law when we sin without Christ's Holy Spirit to assist us to KEEP the 10 Commandments.

Eph. 2:15 Refers to the 'ordinances' of the Mosaic Law, the Ceremonial Ordinances of sacrifice.

Try again.

Were the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Law or not?

 

[GEN2REV]

GEN,

So as one being a follower of OT Law, what do you recommend as punishment for disobedient children, adulterers and homosexuals?

Oz

That's God's department.

This thread's about the 10 Commandments still being relevant for True Christians.

 

[GEN2REV]

Were the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Law or not?

Absolutely not.

And I've proven that REPEATEDLY in this thread.

 

[quietthinker]

@1stCenturyLady ....Our (all humanity) condition is like a rusty old car, overgrown and to all appearances unsalvageable. (as in Adam all die) Our status on the other hand is determined by how God sees us in Jesus all are made alive....that is how God see's us.....and we grasp that by faith.....not experience...yet.

Some do not grasp it; they reject what has been given them freely.

The actual experience of our status comes when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:53...(check the context of this verse)

Romans 7:18 '...in my flesh dwelt no good thing'....
Romans 8:1 'There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus....'

Who are in Adam? all. To whom is no condemnation declared? all. Gob smacking good news!

Consider the story of the Prodigal Son.....a story Jesus crafted. The Prodigal saw himself as worth little, he feels and thinks he has forfeited his right as a Son. (his condition)
The Father however has a totally different view; He runs to meet him and orders the best clothes and shoes and a ring on his finger to signify his position and a party to boot (his status)

 

[GEN2REV]

Were the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Law or not?

The 10 Commandments, written in Stone, were given at Horeb and were placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant.
Deuteronomy 29:1
Deuteronomy 5:2
Exodus 25:16

The Mosaic Law is a Book, was given at Moab and was placed on the side of the Ark.
Deuteronomy 31:26
Deuteronomy 28:58

ETA: The Mosaic Law is a witness against mankind. The 10 Commandments are not. Deuteronomy 31:26

 

[Enoch111]

One started by Armstrong perhaps?

That was not a denomination but a cult.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No 1CL....I'm sorry to burst your bubble of assumptions and the package that comes with those assumptions.....however, I want you to know, I don't hold it against you. :)

There have been so many posts that brought me to the conclusion that you were Seventh-day Adventist. If you are not, what do you believe that is in common with them that you post about?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That was not a denomination but a cult.

I agree. I said the same thing recently in a post.

#1334.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Who are in Adam? all. To whom is no condemnation declared? all. Gob smacking good news!

You didn't mention a verse. That is only true of those who have not been born again of the Holy Spirit. The old man was in Adam, but the old man has died and we are resurrected with a new nature NOW. The only thing left to die is what 1 Corinthians 15:53 means - our outer shell - our body. But our spirit and heart have already been made immortal and we have escaped the lust of the world. 2 Peter 1:2-11. When are you going to read these scriptures I give you? And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that means we don't sin NOW. 1 John 3:5-9

 

[1stCenturyLady]

HYPER-Grace, on the other hand, which is what you and all your cronies are pushing like street crack, is a completely False Doctrine that claims that the Commandments are no longer valid for anyone, you don't need to do a single thing to nurture your salvation and you cannot lose your salvation.

ALL of which are completely unbiblical and complete HERESY.

If you mean willfully committing sins of lawlessness, I would certainly agree. Many denominations believe that.

But the commandments that are written on our heart are not from the Old Covenant, Ex. 34:28, but are what Jesus taught and placed on our heart in the New Covenant, and has given us His own Spirit to empower us and change our entire nature. 1 John 3:23-24

Once we know what John means by "commandments" we will stop misinterpreting the word "commandments" when John writes that word in His gospel and epistles and Revelation.

When you realize that the commandments of Jesus are so much more powerful than the old, and fulfill all the righteousness of the old commandments plus goes even deeper to cleanse from ALL unrighteousness, you will stop accusing New Covenant Christians from breaking the law.

The letter of the law kills, but the Spirit of the law brings life. So how do you instinctively keep the Spirit of the Sabbath from your heart, without keeping it by the letter that kills from your mind? I'll tell you how. By being baptized in the Holy Spirit of God, that's how. Jesus, the Creator of everything, abides inside the born again, and we cannot sin because we have the seed of the Father inside of us. I'm only speaking of "Christians" that have been born again and keep the Spirit of the law, with the laws of God's love written on our hearts and in our minds. To love God with all our strength, mind and heart, and love our neighbor as ourselves. Abiding in Jesus and He in me is how to keep the Spirit of the Sabbath, by keeping the Creator, the substance of the Sabbath day, inside me. He is the Spirit of Christ. And the Spirit of the LAW. With the God of the universe in me, I can do anything through Christ who strengthens me. That includes being righteous and holy.

 

[quietthinker]

There have been so many posts that brought me to the conclusion that you were Seventh-day Adventist. If you are not, what do you believe that is in common with them that you post about?

The in's and out's SDA don't concern me. My focus is on my Jesus and his salvation for all mankind. Sadly, many refuse this free gift. They try some other way of getting into the sheepfold.

What I do know of SDA is that they are falsely accused of trying to get to heaven by keeping the Law. I know they don't believe that as a denomination.
And yes, I keep the Sabbath as per the Commandment, just as I don't steal or murder etc as per the Commandments. You mighty ask me, do I keep them as they are meant to be kept? No, I don't. I have thoughts of anger at different times toward my brother and I find myself entertaining thoughts of sex against even my own values.....but I have a Saviour and he delivers me.

The flesh I am in is that rusty old car I spoke of earlier....my condition inherited from Adam is abysmal when I compare it to God's standard of perfection....just like the prodigal Son. However my status, ie, God's declaration of me is one of a beloved Prince....he see's me in show room condition; one of such value he was/is prepared to forfeit his life for me. This is what I glory in, unreservedly. :)

I trust God's judgement of me rather than my own.

 

[quietthinker]

You didn't mention a verse. That is only true of those who have not been born again of the Holy Spirit. The old man was in Adam, but the old man has died and we are resurrected with a new nature NOW. The only thing left to die is what 1 Corinthians 15:53 means - our outer shell - our body. But our spirit and heart have already been made immortal and we have escaped the lust of the world. 2 Peter 1:2-11. When are you going to read these scriptures I give you? And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that means we don't sin NOW. 1 John 3:5-9

The context of Romans 5:15-19 is, all in Adam, all in Christ. Adam and Jesus did for us what we did not do for ourselves.....for all people ....no personal choice involved.
The message we share with all people is the Good news that they are (past tense) reconciled to God through Jesus. What they do with that is then their choice. They can embrace it with gratitude or they can disbelieve it and push it from them.

Folk who embrace it undergo a radical change in their thinking and behaving (they begin a journey of learning and growing which accompanies them the rest of their earthy walk)....it is this gift of the Spirit which changes them...it is a down payment of what is promised, namely eternal life....realised in totality physically at Jesus return.

 

[Jim B]

False.

Under Law means that you are living in sin, that you are breaking the Law of God, the 10 Commandments.

Under Grace does not mean what YOU say it means. It does NOT mean that the Commandments no longer apply to anyone; it means that you now have the Holy Spirit and are being led by Him to OBEY all the Commandments of God.

HYPER-Grace, on the other hand, which is what you and all your cronies are pushing like street crack, is a completely False Doctrine that claims that the Commandments are no longer valid for anyone, you don't need to do a single thing to nurture your salvation and you cannot lose your salvation.

ALL of which are completely unbiblical and complete HERESY.

Your misguided opinion is worthless.

 

[Jim B]

Not even 'almost.'

Rom. 10:4 refers to the Mosaic Law that was nailed to the cross, NOT the 10 Commandments.

Gal. 3:23-25 Refers to being UNDER the Law when we sin without Christ's Holy Spirit to assist us to KEEP the 10 Commandments.

Eph. 2:15 Refers to the 'ordinances' of the Mosaic Law, the Ceremonial Ordinances of sacrifice.

Try again.

Again, your misguided opinion is worthless.

 

[GEN2REV]

The 10 Commandments are Light.
Those who disobey them walk in darkness.

"The Commandment is a lamp; and the law is Light; and reproofs of instruction are the Way of Life."
Proverbs 6:23

"...God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (disobey the Commandments), we lie, and do not the Truth."
1 John 1:5-6

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His Commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His Commandments, is a liar, and the Truth (Jesus-John 14:6/the Commandments) is not in Him."
1 John 2:3-4

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law."
1 John 3:4

The NLT makes it really obvious.

"..we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness (disobeying the Commandments). We are not living in the Truth (Jesus-the Commandments)."
1 John 1:6 NLT

"And how can we be sure that we belong to Him? By obeying His Commandments. If someone says "I belong to God", but doesn't obey God's Commandments, that person is a liar and does not live in the Truth (Jesus-John 14:6). But those who obey God's Word really do love Him. That is the way to know whether or not we live in Him. Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Christ did." (-and Christ obeyed the 10 Commandments. John 15:10)
1 John 2:3-6 NLT

We also find that 'the Word' is often synonymous with the 10 Commandments.

"The Commandment is a lamp; and the Law is Light (Jesus-John 1:4; 14:6); and reproofs
of instruction are the Way of Life (Jesus-John 14:6)."
Proverbs 6:23

"Thy Word (Jesus per John 1:1) is a lamp unto my feet, and a Light unto my path."
Psalms 119:105

"Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me Thy law graciously. I have chosen 'the Way of Truth' (Jesus-John 14:6): thy judgments have I laid before me."
Psalms 119:29-30

"And take not 'the Word of Truth' (Jesus-John 1:1; 14:6-the 10 Commandments) utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in Thy judgments. So shall I keep Thy Law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty (the Law of Liberty-James 1:25; 2:12; the 10 Commandments): for I seek Thy precepts."
Psalms 119:43-45

 

[GEN2REV]

Your misguided opinion is worthless.

Again, your misguided opinion is worthless.

You display your ignorance of scripture with each additional comment you post.

You are naked and ashamed before God Almighty.

You show yourself dis-approved of God.

You are found wanting.

 

[GEN2REV]

Once we know what John means by "commandments" we will stop misinterpreting the word "commandments" when John writes that word in His gospel and epistles and Revelation.

I think we can easily suss it out by taking the Bible as a whole, as well as comparing all that John said in 1 John. Like 1 John 2:6 for example in comparison to John 15:10. Yeah, kinda hard to escape that one.

Everybody wants to define a concept by a single verse, or a single chapter or book, but when taken as a whole, undivided message, the Bible clears everything up nicely. And John was clear about the 10 Commandments of God the Father in John 15:10. That verse wouldn't have been included if it were not significant. It wasn't an errant statement that had no bearing on any other part of his book.

When you realize that the commandments of Jesus are so much more powerful than the old, and fulfill all the righteousness of the old commandments plus goes even deeper to cleanse from ALL unrighteousness, you will stop accusing New Covenant Christians from breaking the law.

When you realize that the Commandments of Jesus, who is God Almighty per John 1:1, 1:4 and 1:14, are the Commandments of His Father, the 10 Commandments, you will stop accusing those who are actually RIGHT with God of teaching false doctrine AND discover that you are NOT right with God and are living in darkness without the Commandments.

But we both know you know all that.

 

[robert derrick]

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

Who are God's Children? Let's see.

God is a spirit. Those who worship Him (His Children) must worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
John 4:24

Spiritual Israel are God's Children; NOT any physical/fleshly race - for "...they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:.."
Romans 9:8

Is God's Law a physical Law or a Spiritual Law?
"For we know that the Law is spiritual:..."
Romans 7:14

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, (those who do them and keep them may go to heaven.)...Ye shall not add unto (them), neither shall ye diminish (them)..., that ye might keep the Commandments of the Lord your God ..."
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

NOTE: this chapter speaks nothing of the Mosaic/Ceremonial laws. It is ONLY referring to the 10 Commandments which ARE God's Law.

"And He declared unto you ... Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on tables of stone."
Deuteronomy 4:13

And what if His Children stop obeying His Commandments?

"... the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen,..."
Deuteronomy 4:27

We are living this reality today. Scattered far and wide; few and far between among the nations.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
(This next verse is PROOF POSITIVE that the Commandments are still valid to this very day.)
When thou art in tribulation , and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days (end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God; ) He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers (10 Commandments) which He sware unto them."
Deuteronomy 4:29-31

"The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His Commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in Truth and uprightness."
Psalms 111:7-8

"My covenant will I not break nor alter (forever) the thing that has gone out of My lips."
Psalms 89:34

"For I am the Lord, I change not; ..."
Malachi 3:6

The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

So was the Law of Moses and the Old Covenant.

The operative word being was.

And so, the 10 commandments written in the Old Covenant law of Moses were forever.

Now only 9 of them are written in the New Covenant law of Christ.

The whole law of God was changed after the cross:

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[BrotherDThomas]

@quietthinker,

In your response to "Behold," in your post #1337, where in fact do you stand upon Jesus' forgiveness doctrine? Are we forgiven at all times, or is there a limit of forgiveness at the onset, or another biblically vouchsafed theory?


.

 

[BrotherDThomas]

@Abigail,

YOUR QUOTE OF THE DISHARMONY OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH: "They can't be mad at God when they don't believe God exists. And I think you made a very astute observation there. Our disharmony."

Unfortunately, your statement is true to form, especially when a Christian takes it upon themselves to not know the scriptures very well, but nonetheless postulates what they want Jesus' words to say, and then gets caught by me or another astute member of Christianity in showing them their axiomatic correction to what they thought they knew, but didn't.

This is what I have proffered for many years, IS THAT WHAT JESUS SAID ONCE, cannot be taken in so many different and contradicting ways with a myriad of contradicting Bibles, a "plethora" of divisions of Christianity, and where a Christian has to think when driving by another church to go to their church, in how do they know they have the right church and division of the faith to begin with. :)

Therefore, I say to read the Judeo-Christian Bible yourself with note pad in hand, and to not be spoon-fed the Bible by others that for the most part, are 3 fries short of a Happy Meal when discussing Christianity. I've read it many times, and you pick up other things in this way, and you can make the correct decision if the good narratives, and the disturbing narratives, and the very bad narratives are for you. Therefore in this vein, I have had to accept very disturbing narratives about Jesus the Christ, that contradict the tradition of Him being not in this disturbing way, where I just accept it and move on.

.