Justification By Works

[robert derrick]

let me summarize this. You arent a calvinist, so he likes you. :

You aren't a calvinist.

Thank you. I accept the compliment.

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

And you plainly are a Calvinist, since you have not the faith of Jesus, but rather your own faith of man.

You therefore have no obedience to the faith Jesus, to not have His faith with respect of persons.

I don't just like, but love the teaching that person gives.

Liking or not liking a person is of no matter in teaching doctrine of Christ: that is the game for ungrown children.

You love Calvin so much, because you love his lie of predestination 'of who' so much, which is because you don't love the truth of Scripture so much, and most likely not at all:

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

By everything you've said of yourself and continue to say of Calvin's false teaching, this Scripture plainly speaks of you.

The created christ idolizers of jehovah are in the same kind of delusion, but at least they are creative about it, and so are at least interesting to engage.

You however have only shown yourself to a dull pesky troll, who never has anything interesting to say, because your dead faith alone has no substance to it whatsoever.

I would say the same thing about you, whether I personally knew and liked you or not.

Why? Because it is the truth, and by hearing the truth, any child can grow up and be corrected thereby. If any such child desires to from the heart.

Which is the same for salvation in James, if any person will believe the Lord Jesus Christ from the heart and be a doer of His Word, that Christian shall be saved and justified with God and be blessed in their deeds.

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[robert derrick]

That’s not all that said, James said Abraham was justified when he took Isaac up the mountain to sacrifice him. It doesn’t say anything about Abraham was justified by his words, by his works. I know James is very inconvenient to your theology, but what is, IS, whether you like it or not.

And if you would read the passages carefully, you would see that it says his works modified his faith and perfected his faith - so works affect your faith.

And if you would read the passages carefully, you would see that it says his works modified his faith and perfected his faith - so works affect your faith.

Excellent point. I had not seen it that way before, and it is clearly what Scripture is saying.

Faith affects our works, and works affect our faith, and so the Scripture is fulfilled that faith and works work together for salvation and justification with God.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And so faith unaffected by works is dead being alone without works, and can save no man, not ever being affected by works, much less ever being perfected!

Faith is only effectual with works, because faith is only perfected by works.

Faith alone is dead, because it has no effect on our works, nor is it affected by any works at all: salvation by faith alone commands that faith be separate from any works to be justified by.

This commandment we have not from God, but rather the opposite:

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

It is by obeying the faith, that faith is made perfect for eternal salvation. Neither faith nor love of God is ever made perfect in them that separate believing the Word for salvation from doing the Word for justification with God.

I.e. doing the Word and the Law of Christ becomes only a matter of choice from time to time, when salvation by faith alone stands on it's own unaffected by anything we do from time to time, whether good or evil.

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him, because only them that do His righteousness in all things, has the faith of Jesus perfected in them by doing the works of God's righteousness through faith.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

 

[robert derrick]

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

You might want to study Paul and James more.

Paul emphasizes in all his epistles that we are not justified by works of righteousness of the law of Moses, while James emphasizes we are justified by different type of works than are found in the law of Moses.

Abraham believed starting from the promise, and through all the delays in having a son with his wife Sarah, but he was not justified until he took Isaac up the mountain to sacrifice him - see verse 21 above.

He believed for many years before being justified.

He believed for many years before being justified.

Exactly. He was imputed righteousness upon believing God, which only God could see, and was the substance of faith unseen.

And the first time any man was ever said by Scripture to be justified by God was when he offered up Isaac, which was faith seen by God and Isaac.

If Abraham had not done so, then the faith of Abraham would never have been justified with God, nor with Isaac, and so Isaac would never have the faith of the God of Abraham nor Jacob, nor Moses, nor David...

Abraham is called the Friend of God and the father of the faithful, because He believed God from the heart and did the work in sight of God and Isaac.

 

[robert derrick]

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Once again, the whole context of James 2 is justification with God for eternal salvation by obeying Him.

Having the faith of Jesus with respect of persons is transgression of the law of God, and is judge as a transgressor.

Blessing others is only a 2nd example of duplicity in the faith of Jesus. It is not the whole context of James 2 out which is born another faith in need of works apart from a dead faith without works.

There is only one faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, that which is only justified by works and having substance of God for salvation.

Any other faith is dead being alone and without Jesus Christ.

 

[farouk]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8)

@Rudometkin Great quote. I guess it can be paraphrased reasonably, without some resulting statement necessarily being wrong.

 

[robert derrick]

We are not saved by our doing nor our faith. Christians are not saved by their faith. Christians are saved by Grace. By grace through faith. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of faith. Christians have faith because they are saved.

Jesus is the gift of Salvation that takes a dead sinner and gives them life with faith.

Christians disobey God on a daily basis in their own hearts. Merely one moment of doubt makes you deserving of eternal hellfire. God demands perfection. It's not because of you that you are saved. It's not because of your faith. It is not that Christ wakes you up and then it's on you to maintain your Salvation. Christ saves. The perfection God demands is only found in the blood of Christ. And it always stays that way. Only those who believe totally on Christ alone for Salvation will be saved. Believing on Christ is evidence you will be saved.

Doers of the Father's will are saved not because they did the Father's will. They do the Father's will because they are saved. They do not look to themselves for Salvation. They look to Christ for Salvation.

The Father's will is to believe on Jesus.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23)

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)

What actions do the saved do? Do they do enough? Only if you pull down God's law to make yourself fit it, can you believe you do enough to be saved. People think, "Now I'm good enough. I do good, so I'm acceptable". God still demands perfection, and they still aren't perfect by what they do. Christ is our perfection. I don't look at our actions. I look at Christ. I believe if I fall away into doubt and lose my mind, Christ will still save me. I sit and stare at Christ's blood, believing that His blood will save me. That's all I do. That's where rest in Christ is. It's in Christ. I just look at Christ and believe He will save me. I still stumble. But I believe I am protected by Christ, and nothing will separate that.

What is with the focus on man in Salvation here? "Saved by works!" "Saved by faith!" Whose works? Whose faith? Saved by Christ. He already did the work. It's already done. Everything else is arguing back and forth.

We are not the point. Christ is the Scripture says Christ is all.

point.

Christ is the centerpiece of the Bible.

This thread is hung up on the works of men. The focus is off Christ. I think the focus needs to be put on Christ. He is the only way.

What actions do the saved do? Do they do enough?

What do the saved do? They do the faith, the law of Christ, His Word: they are doers and not hearers only, not being them of faith alone.

How much is enough? Enough is at the end of this life: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.


This thread is hung up on the works of men.

The faith alone Christians are hung up on calling any works in salvation as the works of men.

They never acknowledge the difference between works of God's righteousness that justify our faith as being God's faith, and the works of men's righteousness that do not please God, since it is not done by His faith:

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.

So long as any Christians are hung up on faith alone without any need of repenting and doing the righteousness of God for eternal salvation, they shall never obtain eternal salvation from God in the end.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

What actions do the saved do? Do they do enough?

What believer in Christ, who loves to obey God in all things from the heart, asks this stuff?

Christ is the centerpiece of the Bible.

And the Bible ought be the centerpiece of any teaching for Christ.

Carnal minded reasoning does not help anyone to argue the doctrine of Christ.

The problem with man's faith is it doesn't know what it's talking about:

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

What do the saved do? They do the faith, the law of Christ, His Word: they are doers and not hearers only, not being them of faith alone.

How much is enough? Enough is at the end of this life: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Saved by Christ. He already did the work. It's already done.

He did His work by which we can be saved in believing and obeying Him.

Eternal salvation is only obtained at the end for them that endure unto the end and shall be saved in the end.

While in this flesh, believers that do His righteousness in all things are being saved, being conformed to His image of righteousness and true holiness.

We are not eternally saved, until enough is enough, which is at the end, which is why it is only for them that endure temptation and obey Him unto the end.

We are not saved by our doing nor our faith. Christians are not saved by their faith.

It's true we are not saved by 'our faith'. We are saved by the faith of Jesus. If our faith saves us, we would be saving ourselves by our own belief.

Scripture in James is declaring that our faith is dead, being alone without God, and is not the faith of Jesus that saves.

The gift of God is not salvation, but is the faith of Jesus that saves, which is not of ourselves: of our own faith and of our own making.

Christians are saved by Grace. By grace through faith.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Faith saves us, not the faith without works, but the faith of Jesus.

And also it is God who does the saving of souls, not grace. God does the saving by His grace through His faith, not through man's faith.

We are saved by God by His grace, whensoever we believe Jesus is the Lord and Christ from the heart.

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of faith.

Which is why He is the Author of eternal salvation for them that obey Him. (Heb 6)

We are not the point. Christ is all.

Actually, our souls are the main point, else Christ had not needed die on the cross.

Talking about 'it's not about us', makes no sense at all.

This effort to separate one's soul from being saved, and so having no responsibility in our salvation, has all the appearance humility, but none of the substance:

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Them with faith alone bend over backwards to avoid having anything to do with their own salvation.

Humility of God is humbling ourselves with God to repent and do His righteousness from a pure heart.

Christians have faith because they are saved.

Believers have faith because they receive it and keep it:

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Nevertheless it is God that justifies the believer, and without justification, which is by obeying Him there is no salvation at all.

And so, the faith of Jesus and the Word of Christ save us by the grace of God.

We are saved, because we have the faith of Jesus. No man is saved without having faith of God.

This thread is hung up on the works of men.

The faith alone Christians are hung up on calling any works in salvation as the works of men.

They never acknowledge the difference between works of God's righteousness that justify our faith as being God's faith, and the works of men's righteousness that do not please God, since it is not done by His faith:

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.

So long as any Christians are hung up on faith alone without any need of repenting and do the righteousness of God for eternal salvation, they shall never obtain eternal salvation from God in the end.

seriously, i dont know why any of us bother responding to you. I dont think i’ve read one thing of yours that is correct. Not one. How could someone get so much wrong?? Its like you're trying to be wrong. Or maybe you’re trying to deceive everyone??

 

[Taken]

1. Paul never says we are justified by faith alone. That is an added word to the Scripture by man.

2. James is saying a definitive Scripture of being justified by works, which is directly contradicting by justification is by faith alone, 'apart from' works.

To the unobjectively reader, this is obvious, but to the subjective reader it is troublesome to the false doctrine of unconditional salvation 'apart from' works, since we cannot be saved by God apart from being justified with God.

The battleground therefore is not the argument of unconditional salvation, nor being saved by faith, but is the doctrine of only being justified by works: we cannot be justified by faith alone, which is never written in Scripture, and apart from works, and directly contradicts Scripture.

Therefore, the real task is to reconcile the apparent contradiction of Scripture written by Paul and James.

Paul never says we are justified by faith alone. That is an added word to the Scripture by man.

You are making an argument AGAINST being “JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE”...
Without quoting anyone SAYING that.
Your argument is your words arguing against your own words, while transferring the Attack against one not included in stating any words of their own.

Justification IS a response from God...that pertains to what A man does.
God Justifies many things A man does.
Scripture is FULL of KNOWLEDGE....
FULL of:
“IF” a man does “THIS” thing...
“THEN” God will do “THAT” thing...
Every time a man accomplishes DOING “THIS” thing....
God “JUSTIFIES” that mans “THAT” thing to be received from Him.

Justified.....receiving of faith is one thing.
Justified.....lack of faith is another thing.
Justified.....forgiven of sin against God is one thing.
Justified.....lack of forgiveness of sin against God is another thing.
Justified.....confession of faith is another thing.
Justified.....works that glorify God is one thing.
Justified.....works that do not glorify God is another thing.
Justified.....sanctification (set apart) is one thing.
Justified.....sins covered (remembered no more) is one thing.

God is Just. He Justifies men for what they DO and what they DO NOT Do.
Justified BY Faith alone?

So the question is, BY FAITH ALONE.....WHAT Justification of God, shall a man receive? And WHEN shall that man RECEIVE Gods Justification?

 

[robert derrick]

You are making an argument AGAINST being “JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE”...
Without quoting anyone SAYING that.
Your argument is your words arguing against your own words, while transferring the Attack against one not included in stating any words of their own.

Justification IS a response from God...that pertains to what A man does.
God Justifies many things A man does.
Scripture is FULL of KNOWLEDGE....
FULL of:
“IF” a man does “THIS” thing...
“THEN” God will do “THAT” thing...
Every time a man accomplishes DOING “THIS” thing....
God “JUSTIFIES” that mans “THAT” thing to be received from Him.

Justified.....receiving of faith is one thing.
Justified.....lack of faith is another thing.
Justified.....forgiven of sin against God is one thing.
Justified.....lack of forgiveness of sin against God is another thing.
Justified.....confession of faith is another thing.
Justified.....works that glorify God is one thing.
Justified.....works that do not glorify God is another thing.
Justified.....sanctification (set apart) is one thing.
Justified.....sins covered (remembered no more) is one thing.

God is Just. He Justifies men for what they DO and what they DO NOT Do.
Justified BY Faith alone?

So the question is, BY FAITH ALONE.....WHAT Justification of God, shall a man receive? And WHEN shall that man RECEIVE Gods Justification?

You are making an argument AGAINST being “JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE”...

Scripture in James is: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Without quoting anyone SAYING that.

Obviously some Christians were from the beginning, and still do today, which is why God found it necessary to argue against it in Scripture.

You think it's unnecessary, then complain to God it.

So the question is, BY FAITH ALONE.....WHAT Justification of God, shall a man receive? And WHEN shall that man RECEIVE Gods Justification?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are making an argument AGAINST being “JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE”...

Scripture in James is: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Without quoting anyone SAYING that.

Obviously some Christians were from the beginning, and still do today, which is why God found it necessary to argue against it in Scripture.

You think it's unnecessary, then complain to God it.

Yep. We just have James totally contradict paul. We just make the Bible a fairy tail which can not be trusted. Because the writers could not even agree themselves.

We don’t look at it that Paul spoke about and to people like you. Who trust their own works and deeds above the work of Christ, and make them equal, Where as James spoke to people who claimed to have faith. But really did not. They just said a few words,claimed they believed, and went their merry way. With no prove whatsoever their had true faith. So James called THEM OUT. But demanding THEY prove to themselves that their faith was real.

 

[Taken]

You are making an argument AGAINST being “JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE”...

Scripture in James is: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Without quoting anyone SAYING that.

Obviously some Christians were from the beginning, and still do today, which is why God found it necessary to argue against it in Scripture.

You think it's unnecessary, then complain to God it.

So the question is, BY FAITH ALONE.....WHAT Justification of God, shall a man receive? And WHEN shall that man RECEIVE Gods Justification?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

My point is God does the Justifying....for all kinds of things.

Was Abraham JUSTIFIED....of WHAT...?
Justified to HAVE SALVATION for his works? No.

Will Abraham be Justified to Receive REWARDS for his good works? Yes.

Was anyone Justified to be SAVED for their Faith? Yes.

How do I know?
Luke 7:
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Did that woman, Ask for forgiveness? No
Did that woman, do some works? No.
Did that woman Greet and Serve Jesus? Yes.
Did Jesus announce He knew the woman’s hearts thoughts? No.
The woman neither announced her hearts thoughts.
The woman’s hearts thoughts were revealed to Jesus (who is all knowing), by the woman’s behavior expressly to Jesus.
Was it the woman’s service that saved her?
No it was because of woman’s FAITH in her heart, that she was able to Serve Jesus.
And WHY Jesus said “her Faith had saved her”.
He did not say...her service saved her.
Just as Abrahams works, did not save him.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Heres a link that will solve this.
By Grace Alone Through Faith Alone | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

 

[robert derrick]

Yep. We just have James totally contradict paul. We just make the Bible a fairy tail which can not be trusted. Because the writers could not even agree themselves.

We don’t look at it that Paul spoke about and to people like you. Who trust their own works and deeds above the work of Christ, and make them equal, Where as James spoke to people who claimed to have faith. But really did not. They just said a few words,claimed they believed, and went their merry way. With no prove whatsoever their had true faith. So James called THEM OUT. But demanding THEY prove to themselves that their faith was real.

We don’t look at it that Paul spoke about and to people like you.

When people like you begin reading what a person posts, then people like you can post a meaningful response.

Until then, people like you are only posting their pre-learned mantras, that have nothing to do with what others post.

There are several posts in the beginning of the thread about Scripture in Romans rejecting works without faith of God, as saving or justifying anyone, and they are fallen from grace in Galatians.

And Scripture in James concludes faith without works of God neither saves nor justifies any man, but is dead faith alone, being only of faith man and not the faith of Jesus given only by God.

Who trust their own works and deeds above the work of Christ.

As I've posted many times, faith alone zealots will not even acknowledge the difference between works of our own righteousness by our own faith, which do not please God nor are they justified with God, and works of God's righteousness done by His faith, which do please God and are the only doers of His faith and Word that God justifies.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

But demanding THEY prove to themselves that their faith was real.

And until they do so, they are never justified with God, and so will not obtain the eternal salvation of God.

Only them justified in the faith of God, by doing His works unto the end shall be saved, not them trusting in their own faith alone, without doing His works, which is dead.

God commands we prove the faith to Himself to His satisfaction: God demands seeing His faith done more than any person on earth, because it is only God who can justify His works of Faith.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God justifies no man, until He has seen His faith done by a man, that not only believes in Him but in deed and in truth obeys Him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We don’t look at it that Paul spoke about and to people like you.

When people like you begin reading what a person posts, then people like you can post a meaningful response.

Until then, people like you are only posting their pre-learned mantras, that have nothing to do with what others post.

There are several posts in the beginning of the thread about Scripture in Romans rejecting works without faith of God, as saving or justifying anyone, and they are fallen from grace in Galatians.

And Scripture in James concludes faith without works of God neither saves nor justifies any man, but is dead faith alone, being only of faith man and not the faith of Jesus given only by God.

Who trust their own works and deeds above the work of Christ.

As I've posted many times, faith alone zealots will not even acknowledge the difference between works of our own righteousness by our own faith, which do not please God nor are they justified with God, and works of God's righteousness done by His faith, which do please God and are the only doers of His faith and Word that God justifies.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

But demanding THEY prove to themselves that their faith was real.

And until they do so, they are never justified with God, and so will not obtain the eternal salvation of God.

Only them justified in the faith of God, by doing His works unto the end shall be saved, not them trusting in their own faith alone, without doing His works, which is dead.

God commands we prove the faith to Himself to His satisfaction: God demands seeing His faith done more than any person on earth, because it is only God who can justify His works of Faith.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God justifies no man, until He has seen His faith done by a man, that not only believes in Him but in deed and in truth obeys Him.

You act like I have not discussed anything with you or have not been reading your posts

Everything I said was true. I am sure you do not like it. But its true

If it is of grace it is no longer of works. Period.

Paul said if abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about.

Paul said BY GRACE, not of works lest anyone should boast

You want to boast of your works. Then feel free. But if you going to try t tell people they must earn their salvation by works. Then you have a serious problem.

We are saved BY GRACE, period. But God will not force his salvation on you. You must recieve it in faith. Otherwise he will let you continue to try to save yourself. And fail.

Mere belief never saved anyone, That is what James is saying, that if YOU claim to have faith and if YOU have no work, can your faith save you

James was not written to you or those like you so you can fruit inspect other people to determine if they have faith or not. It was written to people who were hearers and not doers. He told THEM TO INSPECT THEIR OWN FAITH. He said he would prove his faith by his work, which abraham and many others did, and tried to get them to prove to themselves their own faith by looking at their own works.

 

[robert derrick]

My point is God does the Justifying....for all kinds of things.

Was Abraham JUSTIFIED....of WHAT...?
Justified to HAVE SALVATION for his works? No.

Will Abraham be Justified to Receive REWARDS for his good works? Yes.

Was anyone Justified to be SAVED for their Faith? Yes.

How do I know?
Luke 7:
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Did that woman, Ask for forgiveness? No
Did that woman, do some works? No.
Did that woman Greet and Serve Jesus? Yes.
Did Jesus announce He knew the woman’s hearts thoughts? No.
The woman neither announced her hearts thoughts.
The woman’s hearts thoughts were revealed to Jesus (who is all knowing), by the woman’s behavior expressly to Jesus.
Was it the woman’s service that saved her?
No it was because of woman’s FAITH in her heart, that she was able to Serve Jesus.
And WHY Jesus said “her Faith had saved her”.
He did not say...her service saved her.
Just as Abrahams works, did not save him.

Justified to HAVE SALVATION for his works? No. Will Abraham be Justified to Receive REWARDS for his good works? Yes.

You can read the exchange with Desire of Nations about trying to separate rewarding faith in need of being justified by works, from saving faith not needing justification by works:

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

The faith spoken of in Scripture of James is the one faith of our Lord Jesus, and is the faith that saves.

Saving faith is written in James, and is in need of works to be saved by.

The only 'rewarding faith' apart from saving faith is in the minds of men that want to trust in faith alone to save by, which is dead and can save no man:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

No.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[robert derrick]

You act like I have not discussed anything with you or have not been reading your posts

Everything I said was true. I am sure you do not like it. But its true

If it is of grace it is no longer of works. Period.

Paul said if abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about.

Paul said BY GRACE, not of works lest anyone should boast

You want to boast of your works. Then feel free. But if you going to try t tell people they must earn their salvation by works. Then you have a serious problem.

We are saved BY GRACE, period. But God will not force his salvation on you. You must recieve it in faith. Otherwise he will let you continue to try to save yourself. And fail.

Mere belief never saved anyone, That is what James is saying, that if YOU claim to have faith and if YOU have no work, can your faith save you

James was not written to you or those like you so you can fruit inspect other people to determine if they have faith or not. It was written to people who were hearers and not doers. He told THEM TO INSPECT THEIR OWN FAITH. He said he would prove his faith by his work, which abraham and many others did, and tried to get them to prove to themselves their own faith by looking at their own works.

Paul said if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about.

As I said, no faith alone zealot will ever at least acknowledge the difference between unrighteous works of man's own faith, and righteous works of God's one true faith: the faith of Jesus.

Romans rebukes our own works of our own faith, and James rebukes our own faith without the works of God's righteousness.

Neither our own faith saves us, nor do our own works justify us with God: only them that believe and obey Him was justified with God, and shallo obtain eternal salvation in the end.

Until, you address this one simple point, you have no meaningful response.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul said if Abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about.

As I said, no faith alone zealot will ever at least acknowledge the difference between unrighteous works of man's own faith, and righteous works of God's one true faith: the faith of Jesus.

Romans rebukes our own works of our own faith,

Romans refutes the legalistic mindset of faith plus works being require.

and James rebukes our own faith without the works of God's righteousness.

James refutes the licentious mindset of a claimed faith with no repentance. They think they can say a prayer and they are saved, It does not matter if they continue to act like they always have, because they were not bad people anyway.

Its funny how both have one standard. And that standard is faith. One has faith, But they are adding works. An in doing so negate grace,. The other has a claimed faith only rejecting they even have need of grace.

Neither our own faith saves us, nor do our own works justify us with God: only them that believe and obey Him was justified with God, and shallo obtain eternal salvation in the end.

Until, you address this one simple point, you have no meaningful response.

You simple point has been handed down though the ages, It is a manipulation that faith alone is not enough. We must add works. It rejects that fact that apart from Grace you are condemned totally. It states the cross is all well. But we must also add works (be it circumcision, Baptism, Takin The lords supper. Doing works of the law. Or works of the church) something, that must be added to grace in order to eventually be saved.

Paul warned the Galations church in this matter, calling them fools. Having begun in the spirit (through faith in Gods work) and trying to perfect in the flesh (through human works)


Jesus said it is finished (“tetelestai” - Paid in full)

He did not say I did my part,, now you do yours

I responded to your post. You don’t like my response. Thats not my fault. But to claim I have not responded. Is just bearing false witness.

 

[robert derrick]

Romans refutes the legalistic mindset of faith plus works being require.

James refutes the licentious mindset of a claimed faith with no repentance. They think they can say a prayer and they are saved, It does not matter if they continue to act like they always have, because they were not bad people anyway.

Its funny how both have one standard. And that standard is faith. One has faith, But they are adding works. An in doing so negate grace,. The other has a claimed faith only rejecting they even have need of grace.

You simple point has been handed down though the ages, It is a manipulation that faith alone is not enough. We must add works. It rejects that fact that apart from Grace you are condemned totally. It states the cross is all well. But we must also add works (be it circumcision, Baptism, Takin The lords supper. Doing works of the law. Or works of the church) something, that must be added to grace in order to eventually be saved.

Paul warned the Galations church in this matter, calling them fools. Having begun in the spirit (through faith in Gods work) and trying to perfect in the flesh (through human works)


Jesus said it is finished (“tetelestai” - Paid in full)

He did not say I did my part,, now you do yours

I responded to your post. You don’t like my response. Thats not my fault. But to claim I have not responded. Is just bearing false witness.

One has faith, But they are adding works. An in doing so negate grace.

Ok, faith aloners have never and never will acknowledge the difference between unsaved and unjustified self-righteousness, vs believing and doing God's righteousness for salvation and justification with God.

Scripture in Romans teaches no man is saved nor justified by our own works, which is self-righteous and not by the faith of Jesus, and Scripture in James teaches no man will ever be saved nor justified by faith alone, which is dead being not the righteousness of Jesus.

Faith alone saves no man, because no man is justified by faith alone without works: No man is saved by God through faith, that is not justified with God by works.

 

[robert derrick]

Romans refutes the legalistic mindset of faith plus works being require.

James refutes the licentious mindset of a claimed faith with no repentance. They think they can say a prayer and they are saved, It does not matter if they continue to act like they always have, because they were not bad people anyway.

Its funny how both have one standard. And that standard is faith. One has faith, But they are adding works. An in doing so negate grace,. The other has a claimed faith only rejecting they even have need of grace.

You simple point has been handed down though the ages, It is a manipulation that faith alone is not enough. We must add works. It rejects that fact that apart from Grace you are condemned totally. It states the cross is all well. But we must also add works (be it circumcision, Baptism, Takin The lords supper. Doing works of the law. Or works of the church) something, that must be added to grace in order to eventually be saved.

Paul warned the Galations church in this matter, calling them fools. Having begun in the spirit (through faith in Gods work) and trying to perfect in the flesh (through human works)


Jesus said it is finished (“tetelestai” - Paid in full)

He did not say I did my part,, now you do yours

I responded to your post. You don’t like my response. Thats not my fault. But to claim I have not responded. Is just bearing false witness.

Romans refutes the legalistic mindset of faith plus works being require.

I.e. being saved by faith is separate from being justified by works: The salvation of God by faith needs no justification with God by works.

In order to be saved by faith alone, man must make separation between salvation and justification, even as they try to make difference between faith and works.

God does not: there is no having the faith of Jesus, when not obeying the faith of Jesus.

Them with the faith of Jesus are always obeying Him in the heart and in the body.

But we must also add works (be it circumcision, Baptism, Takin The lords supper. Doing works of the law. Or works of the church) something...

It's called doing the righteousness of God at all times, even as He is righteous, without which no man is justified in their faith by God.

If we are not being justified with God by doing His righteousness, we are not being saved by God through His faith, because the faith we are trusting in is our own and not the faith of Jesus, that obeys Him in all things:

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Its funny how both have one standard.

It's funny how faith aloners can never just say doing His righteousness. Like its funny and strange language to them.

And so, are you doing the righteousness of God at all times?

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Are you as He is in this world?

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Is your heart pure as His is?

 

[robert derrick]

Romans refutes the legalistic mindset of faith plus works being require.

James refutes the licentious mindset of a claimed faith with no repentance. They think they can say a prayer and they are saved, It does not matter if they continue to act like they always have, because they were not bad people anyway.

Its funny how both have one standard. And that standard is faith. One has faith, But they are adding works. An in doing so negate grace,. The other has a claimed faith only rejecting they even have need of grace.

You simple point has been handed down though the ages, It is a manipulation that faith alone is not enough. We must add works. It rejects that fact that apart from Grace you are condemned totally. It states the cross is all well. But we must also add works (be it circumcision, Baptism, Takin The lords supper. Doing works of the law. Or works of the church) something, that must be added to grace in order to eventually be saved.

Paul warned the Galations church in this matter, calling them fools. Having begun in the spirit (through faith in Gods work) and trying to perfect in the flesh (through human works)


Jesus said it is finished (“tetelestai” - Paid in full)

He did not say I did my part,, now you do yours

I responded to your post. You don’t like my response. Thats not my fault. But to claim I have not responded. Is just bearing false witness.

Jesus said it is finished.

He finished opening the way of cleansing and saving a soul to be justified of God.

Once we believe and confess His name, our work begins to work out our salvation to be justified of Him.

He did not say I did my part,, now you do yours.

Yes, He does:

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

By receiving the faith of Jesus, we are given the power of God Himself through His perfect seed, which is Christ, to become His sons:

them with power to overcome all flesh, even as He did in the days of His flesh, by exercising His power to purge our hearts of lust and cleanse our hands of unrepented sins and trespasses.

Faith aloners want to trust in faith alone and deny their part in becoming sons of God: Even as their faith is dead, so is their part in their own salvation.

And they think the willful humility of being ever-ready to declare their own impure heart being still with lust of the world, and carnal lives still with sins of the flesh, is somehow 'humbling themselves' before God:

Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility...

Only them that do their part in their salvation of God, will ever obtain His eternal salvation and have their part in the first resurrection of the blessed in Christ Jesus, who doeth His righteousness at all times:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.