Justification By Works

[Eternally Grateful]

See, now, this is not true. Sorry, EG, no offense intended. James's letter is addressed to "the twelve tribes in the Dispersion"... To brothers in Christ (even to us, by extension) ~ whom he addresses as sinners somewhere between 15 and 20 times in his short letter, by the way. So, being brothers in Christ, they did have saving faith (and we do, too, of course), which is a God-given thing (Ephesians 2), the assurance of things hoped for (Hebrews 8:1).

No offense taken brother!

It was addressed to the 12 tribes your correct. But nothing there states everyone addressed is saved.

James himself called their faith a claimed faith.

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James is not the one who said they had faith, It was the people who claimed they had faith.

He also asked the question. Can that “Claimed” faith save them, He would not have asked that question if they were truly saved from living faith.

True. Really, even atheists believe in God, know Who God is. Paul is very clear about that in Romans 1. They just deny Him in unrighteousness; they have exchanged the truth for a lie. You see this all through the Bible, actually, like Psalm 10:

"For the wicked boasts of the desires of his soul, and the one greedy for gain curses and renounces the LORD. In the pride of his face the wicked does not seek Him; all his thoughts are, 'There is no God' ... he says in his heart, 'God has forgotten, He has hidden his face, He will never see it' ... Why does the wicked renounce God and say in his heart, 'You will not call to account'?"​

You can see in that, clearly, that the unbeliever says there is no God, but then acknowledges Him, convincing himself that God will not do what He says He will do... he denies God even in his heart, in unrighteousness, just like Paul says.


Yeah... You know, EG, I'm starting to think that RobertDerrick creates all these strawmen without even realizing it. He kind of trips himself up, so to speak. Maybe that's not totally the case, but, well, let's take this "faith alone" thing:

Now, this may sound picky, like mere semantics, but it's very important. Rather than "by faith alone," we should actually state this as "through faith alone." Yeah, 'by' and 'through'... what's the difference, right? Well, there's actually a huge difference. I can go into it in detail, but I think that's probably not necessary; I think everyone here, if they just think on it a bit, will see the difference. We are not saved by faith, but through faith, as Paul says in Romans 3:22, 4:13, and 11:20, Galatians 2:16, 3:14. and 3:26, and Ephesians 2:8 (there are several others, but that should be sufficient). Contrastingly, we are not saved through grace, but by grace... by the grace of God.

RobertDerrick is really not that far off, he just... well, trips himself up, so to speak, by misusing words, in several cases, this being one of them. Another is in not realizing (intentionally or no) the similarities and differences between unredeemed sinners and redeemed sinners, the main similarity being that both are still sinners... :) ... and the main difference being that redeemed sinners are saved and predestined to be conformed to Christ and will be, without fail, because it is by God's power that these folks are kept in Christ and walk in the Spirit to the end, and unredeemed sinners are not.

Grace and peace to you.

I like a saying I have heard many times

For by grace we have been saved BY GRACE (a done deal) through faith (God will nto force you to recieve his gift)

But this faith is never alone, For we are created for works which we walk in them (eph 2: 10)

A lot of people think Paul and james contradicted each other. They did not

Paul says it is by Grace we have been saved, not of works lest anyone should boast. But those who are saved will have works

James said if you claim to have the faith Paul said is needed for salvation. But do not show the works that paul said everyone who is saved will have. Then Your faith is dead. And you were never saved by grace, Because you have in fact rejected grace. And are no different than the jews, who tried to buy grace by their works. Both have failed to repent.

 

[Christ4Me]

dude. you continued use of james out of context is your downfall.

The people james spoke to DID NOT HAVE FAITH. hence they were never saved by faith

They had mere belief. Not all belief is faith, the demons believed but they did not trust (faith) hence why they are lost.

Again, there is no such thing as faith alone.

Your strawman is useless

Until you repent of being a false accuser of the brethren, I have nothing more to say to you personally.

Since James was addressing the brethren that believe in Jesus Christ as among the 12 tribes of Israel scattered through out. then they are saved.

James 1:1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

James was rebuking the church, hence saved believers, for disrespecting the poor.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

James rebuked the church for another abuse towards the poor like the church's sharing their faith in God to provide for the poor to the poor in getting out of helping the poor. Read it in context and stop applying that to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

@PinSeeker You may find this of interest.

 

[PinSeeker]

Since James was addressing the brethren that believe in Jesus Christ as among the 12 tribes of Israel scattered through out. then they are saved.

James 1:1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

James was rebuking the church, hence saved believers, for disrespecting the poor.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

James rebuked the church for another abuse towards the poor like the church's sharing their faith in God to provide for the poor to the poor in getting out of helping the poor. Read it in context and stop applying that to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

@PinSeeker You may find this of interest.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I said in post 153 on the previous page.

Except that, you know, the way I said it was far, far more eloquent... :) I'm being facetious... hackin' atcha...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since James was addressing the brethren that believe in Jesus Christ as among the 12 tribes of Israel scattered through out. then they are saved.

James 1:1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

James was rebuking the church, hence saved believers, for disrespecting the poor.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

James rebuked the church for another abuse towards the poor like the church's sharing their faith in God to provide for the poor to the poor in getting out of helping the poor. Read it in context and stop applying that to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

@PinSeeker You may find this of interest.

Please read your own post. I have highlighted the part which proves in this context. James was speaking to people who only had a claimed faith.

 

[PinSeeker]

Please read your own post. I have highlighted the part which proves in this context. James was speaking to people who only had a claimed faith.

Not necessarily. He was addressing them as believers who had been given saving faith, but probably knew full well that some who would hear what he said were not really believers (false sons, as we sometimes call them). Really, it's not about faith, but about resting on faith to the exclusion of works, and exhorting them to good works to prove to other believers and even to themselves that they are of God and have true saving faith. Paul and Peter do the same thing, for example, in Philippians 2:12-13 (Paul) and 2 Peter 1:11 (Peter).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not necessarily. He was addressing them as believers who had been given saving faith, but probably knew full well that some who would hear what he said were not really believers (false sons, as we sometimes call them). Really, it's not about faith, but about resting on faith to the exclusion of works, and exhorting them to good works to prove to other believers and even to themselves that they are of God and have true saving faith. Paul and Peter do the same thing, for example, in Philippians 2:12-13 (Paul) and 2 Peter 1:11 (Peter).

Grace and peace to you.

Again I think he answered it

They were hearers only not doers.

We should not, as teacher or pastors assume everyone in our congregations or listening to us on radio or youtube, is saved.

Even though we are talking directly to the church of believers.

 

[PinSeeker]

They were hearers only not doers.

Not necessarily. Just because he's exhorting them (and us too) not be hearers only but doers, too, does not mean they actually were hearers only.

We should not, as teacher or pastors assume everyone in our congregations or listening to us on radio or youtube, is saved. Even though we are talking directly to the church of believers.

Sure.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Christ4Me]

Please read your own post. I have highlighted the part which proves in this context. James was speaking to people who only had a claimed faith.

James was speaking to people who only had a claimed faith in God's Providence to the poor without leading by example to the poor.

James was not talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

 

[Christ4Me]

Not necessarily. He was addressing them as believers who had been given saving faith, but probably knew full well that some who would hear what he said were not really believers (false sons, as we sometimes call them). Really, it's not about faith, but about resting on faith to the exclusion of works, and exhorting them to good works to prove to other believers and even to themselves that they are of God and have true saving faith. Paul and Peter do the same thing, for example, in Philippians 2:12-13 (Paul) and 2 Peter 1:11 (Peter).

Grace and peace to you.

There are no false sons; James never outed any one as a false son. James did say that one can fall away from their steadfastness.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

The truth is a believer can fall into sin or else why would James warn the believers? James never said that the one who falls away into sin, is not a brother, but certainly in need of His help for forgiveness and for help to depart from that sin.

 

[PinSeeker]

There are no false sons...

There are some who are with us now (think they are brothers and sisters in Christ) but who will not remain with us (will go out from us, proving they were never of us. This is exactly what John says in 1 John 2:19... "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

James never outed any one as a false son.

I agree. I'm not sure how you got any idea otherwise from what I have said.

James did say that one can fall away from their steadfastness.

Yes, see above.

The truth is a believer can fall into sin or else why would James warn the believers? James never said that the one who falls away into sin, is not a brother, but certainly in need of His help for forgiveness and for help to depart from that sin.

Yeah, again, I'm not sure why you feel it necessary to tell me this.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Christ4Me]

There are some who are with us now (think they are brothers and sisters in Christ) but who will not remain with us (will go out from us, proving they were never of us. This is exactly what John says in 1 John 2:19... "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

When you compare that with the gospel of John, you may see that there are two folds of sheep as in two kinds of eternal inheritance.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

There is the fold that follows His voice and then those who went out from us in following a stranger's voice as in lead astray... but.. He must bring them for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him. John 6:39-40 This is why He "must" bring them so they can hear His voice literally as the King of kings after the great tribulation and be of the one fold & one shepherd, serving Him as kings and priests during the millennium reign.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

So He will get that lost sheep that is His even if it does get denied by Him for being in iniquity and left behind at the rapture event.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not necessarily. Just because he's exhorting them (and us too) not be hearers only but doers, too, does not mean they actually were hearers only.

Is a dead faith living? Can it save you?

Thats the question James asked to a select group of people.

 

[Behold]

The born again, as James teaches, are "justified by works" before others.........but not before God.

To be justified before GOD, """you must be born again"""= "Justified by Faith", as "Faith is counted as righteousness".

God receives your Faith in Christ to then redeem you with the Blood of Jesus..

That is not your "work"......that is God's Grace as your "Gift of Salvation.""

Salvation is a Gift. You dont work for a GIFT.

 

[PinSeeker]

When you compare that with the gospel of John, you may see that there are two folds of sheep as in two kinds of eternal inheritance.

I think we're talking about disparate things, Christ4Me. There are indeed many now who think they are Christians, but their hearts are not converted. They are antichrists, as John says in 1 John 2. These are "false sons." Not that I presume to be able to know about any one person, because only God sees and knows the heart.

In John 10, Jesus is talking to Jews. The "other sheep (He has), which are not of this fold" are the Gentiles ~ not all of them of course, but the ones given to Him by the Father. And in that same verse (v.16), He says in the latter part of that verse that "there shall be one fold..." Putting that together, then, Paul is saying the exact same thing in Romans 11, when he writes "Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved" (v.25-26).

But yes, the two kinds of eternal inheritance... one is very good, and one is very bad. :) Jesus Himself is very clear about that in John 5:28-29, saying "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Christ4Me]

Is a dead faith living? Can it save you?

Thats the question James asked to a select group of people.

More like James was rebuking the church for mistreating the poor by voicing faith in God's providence to the poor just to get out of helping the poor.

Not about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works les ye deny Him as your Savior as not able to save those who believe in Him.

 

[Christ4Me]

I think we're talking about disparate things, Christ4Me. There are indeed many now who think they are Christians, but their hearts are not converted. They are antichrists, as John says in 1 John 2. These are "false sons." Not that I presume to be able to know about any one person, because only God sees and knows the heart.

In John 10, Jesus is talking to Jews. The "other sheep (He has), which are not of this fold" are the Gentiles ~ not all of them of course, but the ones given to Him by the Father. And in that same verse (v.16), He says in the latter part of that verse that "there shall be one fold..." Putting that together, then, Paul is saying the exact same thing in Romans 11, when he writes "Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved" (v.25-26).

But yes, the two kinds of eternal inheritance... one is very good, and one is very bad. :) Jesus Himself is very clear about that in John 5:28-29, saying "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

Grace and peace to you.

An example of the falling away from the faith prophesied in these latter days where saved believers can go astray.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

This iniquity was to happen first before Jesus appears as the Bridegroom.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,....

Paul testify that this iniquity was already at work in his day and cites how the restraining part of the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

If a believer believes that he or she can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after a sign, then the restraining part of the Holy Spirit will cease to allow other spirits to come in binging a sign with them.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned* who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

*Note "damned" as in left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in heaven ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, that had not departed from iniquity; 2 Timothy 2:18-21

We can know that is the lie by the reproof given below in Paul reminding believers of the tradition taught of us as to when the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth was received at the calling of the gospel; hence there is no more receiving of the Holy Spirit after salvation

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So those that preach another gospel with the holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, and the like all falls in that realm of apostasy for why God would permit that strong delusion to occur for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy spirit after a sign of tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh.

Now the point of this is that Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in that we are commanded by the Lord with His help to withdraw from them, but yet not to treat them as the enemy, bit admonish them as brothers still.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

 

[PinSeeker]

An example of the falling away from the faith prophesied in these latter days where saved believers can go astray.

Right, but the thing is, Christ4Me, these "believers" who go astray were never really believers in the first place. That's John's point; read it again:

"Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:18-19)​

If God has changed one's heart, he will not fall away, but persevere to the end. God will ensure this by His Spirit:

* "He Who began a good work in us will bring it to completion at the day of Christ." (Philippians 1:6)​

* "God is able to keep us from stumbling and to present us blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy." (Jude 24)​

* "God has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for us, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)​

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

More like James was rebuking the church for mistreating the poor by voicing faith in God's providence to the poor just to get out of helping the poor.

No, He asked the question. CAN THAT FAITH SAVE YOU!

He also spoke of being JUSTIfIED

This is speaking of salvation.

If you CLAIM to have faith but have ZERO ZIP NADA WORKS> your FAITH IS DEAD. Can that faith save you????

NO!!!!!!

Not about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works les ye deny Him as your Savior as not able to save those who believe in Him.

They did not believe in him, Did you not get the message, They believed there was one god. He never said they had belief in christ and his death.

Study the passage.

 

[Christ4Me]

No, He asked the question. CAN THAT FAITH SAVE YOU!

Read it again.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Now the question you have to ask yourself is how verse 14 applies to verse 15 & 16 or vise versa to know if James is talking about saving faith one has for himself or faith in God to provide for the poor can the church's faith profit the poor let alone save the poor?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

What faith that has no work is dead and to whom? The church's faith in God's Providence to the poor is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God's providence will not profit the poor nor save the poor when they can see the church;s faith in God's Providence is dead by them not leading by example by doing verse 16 to help the poor.

He also spoke of being JUSTIfIED

This is speaking of salvation.

The church is not justified for getting out of helping the poor by declaring their faith in God's Providence TO the poor without leading by example.

Justified does not mean salvation in this case. Justified means not being righteous in what they were doing to the poor.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Read it again.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

He said exactly what I said he said.

So why shoudl I read it again. It just continues to prove what I said

Now the question you have to ask yourself is how verse 14 applies to verse 15 & 16 or vise versa to know if James is talking about saving faith one has for himself or faith in God to provide for the poor can the church's faith profit the poor let alone save the poor?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

What faith that has no work is dead and to whom? The church's faith in God's Providence to the poor is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God's providence will not profit the poor nor save the poor when they can see the church;s faith in God's Providence is dead by them not leading by example by doing verse 16 to help the poor.

He asked the question. CAN THAT FAITH SAVE HIM. If he is already saved, the question is nonsensical. Because they would already be saved.

The church is not justified for getting out of helping the poor by declaring their faith in God's Providence TO the poor without leading by example.

Justified does not mean salvation in this case. Justified means not being righteous in what they were doing to the poor.

Justified means to be declaired righteous (the greek word is a judicial term, which literally means innocent, not guilty etc etc)

He even mentioned abraham, Abraham believe God and it was accounted to him as righteousness

again, A salvation term, to be made right with God..