Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

[Titus]

Nice to meet you!

I love you! Thanks for being a real man and doing real work that everyone depends on. Love your hard working ethic. I mean your service to helping everyone with your occupation.
I wish I could work hard physically. But my health has gone to pot. And I have worked very hard trying to keep my health to no avail. I'm going to bed. Goodnight

 

[Phoneman777]

Proverbs 29:13 plainly says God enlightens all whom He choses. He enables people to see. They are all blind. He removes the veil so they can see. Then He convinces us, we agree and say yes. Still some resist. Spiritually we cannot come to the Father unless He first draws us, enables, removes the blinders - HE SHOWS US, THEN WE SEE AND COME TO HIM.
"The poor man and the oppressor have this in common:
The Lord gives light to the eyes of both."
Neither had light, neither were just. We were all like dirty rags, in darkness. We cannot jumpstart salvation, by our goodness nor merit our salvation.

As far as the New Orleans Decadence Festival, how can you equate any these fully engaged participants as born again believers? I was warned about going to New Orleans by several Christians. Frankly I think there is a demonic prince in charge of that area - hence all the disasters have been brought against them. Corinth was like that. John MacArthur once described Corinth equivalent to present day Amsterdam - filled with all sorts of debauchery, sinful living. New Orleans during Mardi Gras celebration has turned into ancient Corinth. Actually the USA has fallen into much of this hedonism, but I don't believe a true Christian will practice sinful behavior nor be a slave to it. Unsaved folks are slaves to sin.
With unbelievers, as much as they've experienced good upbringing, values, morals and discipline, they have already learned Christian principles. In a sense, we all were prepared to become Christians before we realize it. It is evident that God was always there protecting us and guiding us, leading us to that divine appointment. My journey took 35 years to get there.
Christian principles have permeated all civilizations and changed them in many ways. People do cling to these principles without realizing they are from God.
That said, we have to be careful as to not slap a judgment on people. We can see people getting carried away with these festivals. Some may mildly participate and be in control, others out of control. Are they all hedonists or just some going out once a year or once in while, having a couple of drinks, a few laughs and that's all. Do you think the Wedding in Cana consisted of all sober people or maybe a few drunkards? I have been too many weddings because I was a musician who performed at them and there are always a few who could not hold their liquor.
If I was just passing through New Orleans and it happened to be Mardi Gras and I was caught briefly on film walking down the street (not really partaking in the raucous, but just briefly passing through), others might think of me differently. Onlookers would say, Hey, isn't that Ron there ... right in the middle of all that, I can't believe it, I thought he was a Christian ... bla, bla, bla. Or maybe I went there purposely to pass out tracks about Jesus, yet others would see it differently at a glance and lump me in with the rest.

Sorry, that was a typo...I meant Proverbs 28:13 KJV.

 

[Phoneman777]

I would say it is the goodness of God that leads us to believe.

Here's what I read in Scripture:

1. Romans 2:6 KJV plainly says God "leadeth thee to repentance".
2. Once we arrive, it's our responsibility to choose to repent: Acts 2:38 KJV
3. The choice to repent must be preceded by a choice to believe: Acts 2:38 KJV

Can you see how salvation is accepted by choice, not enforced by divine decree?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Here's what I read in Scripture:

1. Romans 2:6 KJV plainly says God "leadeth thee to repentance".
2. Once we arrive, it's our responsibility to choose to repent: Acts 2:38 KJV
3. The choice to repent must be preceded by a choice to believe: Acts 2:38 KJV

Can you see how salvation is accepted by choice, not enforced by divine decree?

not sure how best to explain this, but our salvation has NOTHING to do with us and everything about God. You have zero choice as to whether you will believe or not. Repentance comes from God. Esau and judas both could not repent, God did not give the gift of repentance to them. They were not of the elect.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Jesus taught to believe you must believe in Him, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
Jesus taught to have faith, you must believe in His word.
Jesus taught that faith and baptism saves, Mark 16:15-16.
Therefore if you do not believe what Jesus said, "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved....
You are not a believer.
Salvation comes from believing in Him and His word,
John 5:24
Most assuredly I say to you, he who HEARS MY WORD and believes in Him who sent Me has eternal life, and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death into life.

You don't believe you have to be baptized to be saved. You do not have faith in Jesus' word.

We are saved by obeying commandments,
1John 3:23-24
And this is His COMMANDMENT that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ....

Danthemailman, do you think you can be saved by not obeying Jesus' commandment to believe?

Do you think you can be saved without obey Gods commandments?
Then you believe you can be saved without faith.

baptism does NOT save. If you believe that only the baptized will make it to Heaven, you are adding a work as well as adding to what is needed in salvation. Revelation 22 says he who adds to what the Bible says will have added plagues. Be careful.

 

[Titus]

baptism does NOT save. If you believe that only the baptized will make it to Heaven, you are adding a work as well as adding to what is needed in salvation. Revelation 22 says he who adds to what the Bible says will have added plagues. Be careful.

You have denied Christ, when you said Jesus did not say you must be baptized to be saved.
Have you never read Jesus' gospel?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

You just contradicted Jesus, Here is what you said to me,
He who believes and is baptized( You do not have to be baptized to be saved)

You Sir, are the one who is in great danger.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You have denied Christ, when you said Jesus did not say you must be baptized to be saved.
Have you never read Jesus' gospel?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

You just contradicted Jesus, Here is what you said to me,
He who believes and is baptized( You do not have to be baptized to be saved)

You Sir, are the one who is in great danger.

let me guess… you’re catholic?? Lutheran??
If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)?

 

[Titus]

not sure how best to explain this, but our salvation has NOTHING to do with us and everything about God. You have zero choice as to whether you will believe or not. Repentance comes from God. Esau and judas both could not repent, God did not give the gift of repentance to them. They were not of the elect.

Listen Calvinist.
If God does not grant faith, repentance to all.
Then if I am not chosen of the elect, I am not responsible for my reprobate mind, sins.
If God ordained me to reprobation, then God is responsible for my nature.
I had no choice in the matter.
Therefore God is responsible for my sins and my ways. I am not guilty for how God created me to be.
God is guilty for my sinful nature. And God is guilty if I go to hell.

Also since you can do nothing at all to be saved
You may not be saved.
You may not be of the elect. You may have been chosen by God to burn in hell for all eternity.
If you think you are of the elect. Beware, God may have given you strong delusion to believe a lie,
2Thessalonians 2:11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.
Since you can do nothing to save yourself, you have no assurance of your salvation.

 

[Phoneman777]

not sure how best to explain this, but our salvation has NOTHING to do with us and everything about God. You have zero choice as to whether you will believe or not. Repentance comes from God. Esau and judas both could not repent, God did not give the gift of repentance to them. They were not of the elect.

So, what about Acts 2:38 KJV, where the apostle says it is our responsibility to choose to repent? Is there a Calvinist way of interpreting the verse otherwise? Because on its face it clearly says repentance is something the individual must do, not something that's done for him.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Listen Calvinist.
If God does not grant faith, repentance to all.
Then if I am not chosen of the elect, I am not responsible for my reprobate mind, sins.
If God ordained me to reprobation, then God is responsible for my nature.
I had no choice in the matter.
Therefore God is responsible for my sins and my ways. I am not guilty for how God created me to be.
God is guilty for my sinful nature. And God is guilty if I go to hell.

Also since you can do nothing at all to be saved
You may not be saved.
You may not be of the elect. You may have been chosen by God to burn in hell for all eternity.
If you think you are of the elect. Beware, God may have given you strong delusion to believe a lie,
2Thessalonians 2:11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.
Since you can do nothing to save yourself, you have no assurance of your salvation.

calvinist? :cool: You say that like its supposed to bother me. I proudly tell people im calvinist.
If you are not of the elect, you are still responsible for your sins because you were born into sin.
Furthermore, God didnt cause sin, satan did. I noticed you blamed God rather than satan. Very interesting.
Clearly you havent read much of my comments. I’ll be the first to tell you im not saved. Will i be at the end? No idea, theres nothing i can do to get salvation, it is all in Gods hands.
I made a post earlier about why so many on a christian forum seem to know they are saved. You should read it.

 

[Titus]

let me guess… you’re catholic?? Lutheran??
If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, “I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius” (1 Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power” (1 Corinthians 1:17)?

No,
Not catholic, not luthren.
I am only what God named His children to be. A christian only.

You need to study the whole book of 1and 2Corinthians.
You will learn that Paul did baptize the corinthians.
He said he was glad he did not baptize anymore of them because they were perverting baptism.
Have you never read what Paul said they were doing at the church in Corinth?
1Corinthians 1:11-13
....my brethren, by those of Ces household, that there are contentions among you,
Now I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, or I am of Apollos, or I am of Cephas, or I am of Christ.
IS CHRIST DIVIDED? WAS PAUL CRUCIFIED FOR YOU? Or were you BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF PAUL?
I thank Gid that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius.

Why Paul? Why are you glad you did not baptize anymore if them?
Verse 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.

Now do you better understand why Paul,did not want to baptize the Corinthians?
Paul never taught that water baptism was non-essential or unnecessary when it was done according to Jesus' gospel.
Baptism must be done in Jesus' name not in a man's name. Only Jesus' baptism can wash away our sins,
Acts2:38.
Just as Paul was saved when he was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to wash away his sins,
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul was baptized in Jesus' gospel to save him.
Same reason Paul baptized Crispus and Gaius,

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So, what about Acts 2:38 KJV, where the apostle says it is our responsibility to choose to repent? Is there a Calvinist way of interpreting the verse otherwise? Because on its face it clearly says repentance is something the individual must do, not something that's done for him.

2 Timothy 2:25

 

[Phoneman777]

2 Timothy 2:25

We can't allow one verse to teach the opposite of another...we must find a wayu to harmonizes both.

2 Timothy obviously refers to "give them opportunity to repent", which is what "leadeth thee to repentance" refers to.

Otherwise, Acts 2:38 KJV is an uninspired verse, right or wrong?

 

[Titus]

calvinist? :cool: You say that like its supposed to bother me. I proudly tell people im calvinist.
If you are not of the elect, you are still responsible for your sins because you were born into sin.
Furthermore, God didnt cause sin, satan did. I noticed you blamed God rather than satan. Very interesting.
Clearly you havent read much of my comments. I’ll be the first to tell you im not saved. Will i be at the end? No idea, theres nothing i can do to get salvation, it is all in Gods hands.
I made a post earlier about why so many on a christian forum seem to know they are saved. You should read it.

It is irrelevant who caused sin in calvinism.
Fact is if God ordained me to reprobation as calvinism teaches.
Then God is responsible for my sinful nature.
Do you think satan has power over God?
God is the one who selects who are elected and who will be reprobates. Not the devil.
Therefore God is guilty if I go to hell.
God is guilty for my sins because he created me to be this way.

Maybe you are born in sin. I'm not
Imam created in the image of God.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No,
Not catholic, not luthren.
I am only what God named His children to be. A christian only.

You need to study the whole book of 1and 2Corinthians.
You will learn that Paul did baptize the corinthians.
He said he was glad he did not baptize anymore of them because they were perverting baptism.
Have you never read what Paul said they were doing at the church in Corinth?
1Corinthians 1:11-13
....my brethren, by those of Ces household, that there are contentions among you,
Now I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, or I am of Apollos, or I am of Cephas, or I am of Christ.
IS CHRIST DIVIDED? WAS PAUL CRUCIFIED FOR YOU? Or were you BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF PAUL?
I thank Gid that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius.

Why Paul? Why are you glad you did not baptize anymore if them?
Verse 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.

Now do you better understand why Paul,did not want to baptize the Corinthians?
Paul never taught that water baptism was non-essential or unnecessary when it was done according to Jesus' gospel.
Baptism must be done in Jesus' name not in a man's name. Only Jesus' baptism can wash away our sins,
Acts2:38.
Just as Paul was saved when he was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to wash away his sins,
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul was baptized in Jesus' gospel to save him.
Same reason Paul baptized Crispus and Gaius,

non denominational. In other words, not a confessionist, so your doctrine is all over the place. Got it.
Theres nothing wrong with baptism, but to say its necessary, is just wrong. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ’s death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus’ death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus’ payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.

Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

We can't allow one verse to teach the opposite of another...we must find a wayu to harmonizes both.

2 Timothy obviously refers to "give them opportunity to repent", which is what "leadeth thee to repentance" refers to.

Otherwise, Acts 2:38 KJV is an uninspired verse, right or wrong?

Acts 2:38 doesnt say its our responsibility. He was answering a question about getting saved, if the people had not been called, they wouldnt have seen a need to repent. In verse 41, we see 3000 accepted peters message. In other words, we see that God had called 3000 and they were able to repent. What you should be asking, is how many did not??

 

[Titus]

We can't allow one verse to teach the opposite of another...we must find a wayu to harmonizes both.

2 Timothy obviously refers to "give them opportunity to repent", which is what "leadeth thee to repentance" refers to.

Otherwise, Acts 2:38 KJV is an uninspired verse, right or wrong?

Exactly.
It is clear the Jews chose to obey the gospel and repent in Acts 2:38
Acts 2:40 and with many other words he testified and exhorted them saying,
Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
A calvinist would have heard that and said, No you can do nothing.

 

[Titus]

non denominational. In other words, not a confessionist, so your doctrine is all over the place. Got it.
Theres nothing wrong with baptism, but to say its necessary, is just wrong. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ’s death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus’ death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus’ payment for our sins is appropriated to our “account” by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not have true faith.

Further, when Paul gives a detailed outline of what he considers the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the gospel lack a mention of baptism?

Doctrine all over the place? I am a member of the Lords church, Romans 16:16.
I dont have a doctrine.
I follow the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

How does God call us?
The bible teaches through the gospel is how we are called,
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
The gospel is where we get faith.
If faith comes from a miraculous direct operation before hearing and believing the gospel.
Then the gospel is not the power to save, Romans 1:16.
What saves in calvinistic doctrine is a miracle directly from the Holy Spirit before faith!
Nowhere does the scriptures teach a miracle must occur for us to believe.
If the scriptures did, they would contradict the passages that teach we believe through hearing the gospel.
1Corinthians 4:15
....for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Again Paul teaches we are saved, born again by obeying the gospel.
Not before believing and obeying the gospel like in calvinism.

Regenerated before faith? Not according to the Bible.

 

[Phoneman777]

Acts 2:38 doesnt say its our responsibility. He was answering a question about getting saved, if the people had not been called, they wouldnt have seen a need to repent. In verse 41, we see 3000 accepted peters message. In other words, we see that God had called 3000 and they were able to repent. What you should be asking, is how many did not??

But, in the previous verse the men asked "What shall we do?"...and Peter replied, "Repent".

How can we make this appear to teach anything else than what is plainly said here?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

But, in the previous verse the men asked "What shall we do?"...and Peter replied, "Repent".

How can we make this appear to teach anything else than what is plainly said here?

do you think everyone listening repented?? No. So if 3000 did repent, how many more didnt? We arent told, but given the fact that many times we are told few will be saved, that 3000 was not the majority of the crowds. We are told esau seeked repentance, but couldnt find it, pharoah was given many opportunities to repent, but he did not in spite of what he saw. Unless God grants you repentance, you cant find it.