Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

[Christ4Me]

the WCF is not conflicting. The WCF is explanatory.

They can do without mentioning the sacraments. Hardly separating themselves from the catholic church when they use those terms. Just saying.

So you believe you are saved now or still believe you are not saved yet? And why?

 

[Phoneman777]

@Phoneman777

So that is why I believe repenting from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ to be saved is all a sinner needs to do,

Unbelief of what? That is the crux of the issue. You know what the entire Christian world refuses to believe? That we are to do "all" that our heavenly Father has commanded us to do. (Luke 17:10 KJV)

A person can stand up in church and confess he's given his heart to the Lord and now wants stop worshiping Satan, stop stealing, stop sleeping around with married women, stop lying, etc. and one after the other is met with a hearty "AMEN!!!" from the congregation....

....but let that man say, "And, finally, I've entered into the rest of my Savior and to demonstrate that inward rest, from now on I'm going to outwardly rest on the Sabbath after working the first six days of every week according to the fourth commandment like it says in Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV" and suddenly everyone starts shouting that he's fallen from grace.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is a spiritual birth. We died to our old selves/ways, yet we haven't been buried yet. We render ourselves as dead, yet sin still dwells in the members of our flesh. Our spirit is pure. We are waiting our full redemption, death amd resurrection. There is a tension between the two realms. My Pastor used to say we are in the "already but not yet" realm.

Are "Christians" really dead to their old ways of rebellion? If so, why do they fight so hard to excuse disobedience?

 

[Phoneman777]

Since the reward for this "obedience" is the promise of the Holy Ghost and yet the remission of sins is given by believing in Him ( Acts 10:43-44 ) for how one is born again of the Spirit, John 3:7-18, then obeying the gospel by believing in Him is the truth.

Yes, we first make the "choice" to obey, and then the Spirit is imparted to us enabling and empowering us to obey. That's why the wicked cannot partake of the Holy Spirit, for "the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God".

Can you explain this reference?

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

"Israel" here refers to "the Israel of God: the church" comprised of natural and unnatural branches, all of which are "Abraham's seed" because we are all in Christ. (Galatians 3:29 KJV)

Preaching the gospel to them by believing in Jesus Christ is how they are saved, but that message should also include the hope that we have in Jesus Christ Who will deliver sinners from their sins so they can hope in Him for that too for when they call on Him to be saved.

Amen, salvation is obtained purely by an exercise of the will - an act of choice which is contained in the judgment halls of the brain. The outward actions of obedience, or lack thereof, only serve to expose the condition of the heart.

So that is why I believe repenting from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ to be saved is all a sinner needs to do, but it is also imperative to tell sinners that are seeking that Jesus can deliver them from their sins so that sin is longer having dominion over their lives so that when they come forward, they will place their hopes not only in Jesus for salvation, but also hope He will deliver them from their sins & keep them from their sins by leading them away from temptations and deliver them from the evil one because Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?.... 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

P.S. I included my last response to Lifelong_sinner in with this post in case the tagging system does not work. I also tagged Lifelong_sinner to this post also.

We must believe ALL that Jesus said if we are to be believers at all. Did the dying man truly "believe" his physician's promise to heal him by neglecting to follow every instruction given him, which resulted in his death?

 

[Christ4Me]

Unbelief of what?

Unbelief in Jesus Christ for that was what the Jews were pricked in their hearts for so doing. They must have been part of the mob that had crucified Jesus in unbelief. So to repent from unbelief in him by believing in Him is how one receives the remission for sins and the gift of the holy Ghost.

That is the crux of the issue. You know what the entire Christian world refuses to believe? That we are to do "all" that our heavenly Father has commanded us to do. (Luke 17:10 KJV)

It is by believing in Him is the repeated commandment for us getting the Holy Ghost at our salvation.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we had to do all His commandments in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost, then we would never get Him.

A person can stand up in church and confess he's given his heart to the Lord and now wants stop worshiping Satan, stop stealing, stop sleeping around with married women, stop lying, etc. and one after the other is met with a hearty "AMEN!!!" from the congregation....

But sinners are slaves to sin that they need to come to Jesus to deliver them from their sins and not just give them eternal life. To believe that a sinner has to repent from all sins before coming to Him is overlooking the truth that we need Him in us so we can follow Him.

....but let that man say, "And, finally, I've entered into the rest of my Savior and to demonstrate that inward rest, from now on I'm going to outwardly rest on the Sabbath after working the first six days of every week according to the fourth commandment like it says in Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV" and suddenly everyone starts shouting that he's fallen from grace.

The Jews kept the ten commandments to obtain salvation for why there can be nothing on our part in saving ourselves when our believing in Him is a work of God the Father.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Indeed, the preaching of the cross is the power of God in salvation to save those that believe in Him; not water baptism.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

We are to come to Him for that rest in Jesus Christ' for our salvation, not to the sabbath and not to water baptism.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Christ4Me]

Yes, we first make the "choice" to obey, and then the Spirit is imparted to us enabling and empowering us to obey. That's why the wicked cannot partake of the Holy Spirit, for "the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God".

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Indeed, the preaching of the cross is the power of God in salvation to save those that believe in Him; not water baptism.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Reads that our believing in Him is the work of the Father.

"Israel" here refers to "the Israel of God: the church" comprised of natural and unnatural branches, all of which are "Abraham's seed" because we are all in Christ. (Galatians 3:29 KJV)

By faith in Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Amen, salvation is obtained purely by an exercise of the will - an act of choice which is contained in the judgment halls of the brain. The outward actions of obedience, or lack thereof, only serve to expose the condition of the heart.
We must believe ALL that Jesus said if we are to be believers at all. Did the dying man truly "believe" his physician's promise to heal him by neglecting to follow every instruction given him, which resulted in his death?

Everything Jesus said about discipleship has nothing to do with salvation for it is by believing in Him, even in His name, is how we are born again.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Since our believing in Him is a work of God, there really is no grounds for how our will took a part in believing in Him when we needed His help to believe in Him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Are "Christians" really dead to their old ways of rebellion? If so, why do they fight so hard to excuse disobedience?

Spiritually, we have been born again and are dead to sin because Christ paid the penalty for our sins. The wages of sin is death. We in essence were transported back in time with Christ on the cross and died with Him, and rose with Him, a new creature. However, we still have our flesh. We are not slaves to sin and so we are to render ourselves dead. Yet, our old selves/ways seem to resurface and we fall into temptation. It is not sin that carries the penalty of death though - how could it be. Christ died once. We are only born again once. It's a done deal. At death, our pure spirits separate from our flesh and we go to be with the Lord, spotless, white as snow.
In Heaven, outside of our time domain, when Christ died, all generations, past present and future who lived by faith in the Lord and Saviour, died and when He was resurrected, so were we - even though in our physical realm it hasn't happened yet. God sees all and knows all, which is how each and every name was written into the Book of Life for all time. That is His perfect plan.
This is difficult for our finite minds to conceive. We just must accept that the election of all who have been or will be saved is just part of what we call God's soverign plan.

 

[Phoneman777]

Do you measure their call and spirituality?

With what?

"By their FRUITS ye shall know them." IOW, does their profession of mouth match the actions of their hands?

 

[Truther]

i was baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And no, i am not saved. Baptism doesnt save anyone.

Take a chance...get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins like the 3000 at Pentecost did.

It sure cannot hurt to do it, right?

 

[Truther]

More like clarifying Peter's command in Acts 2:38 as he clearly stated to the Gentiles how they were to receive the remission of sins by believing in Him & they got the gift of the Holy Ghost in Acts 10:43-44 thus born again of the Spirit and saved ay before water baptism.

No, you debunked Acts 2:38 with Acts 10(via not reading all of Acts 10).

You must be with Acts 2:38 Busters.

They put on an extensive show.

 

[Phoneman777]

Unbelief in Jesus Christ for that was what the Jews were pricked in their hearts for so doing. They must have been part of the mob that had crucified Jesus in unbelief. So to repent from unbelief in him by believing in Him is how one receives the remission for sins and the gift of the holy Ghost.



It is by believing in Him is the repeated commandment for us getting the Holy Ghost at our salvation.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If we had to do all His commandments in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost, then we would never get Him.



But sinners are slaves to sin that they need to come to Jesus to deliver them from their sins and not just give them eternal life. To believe that a sinner has to repent from all sins before coming to Him is overlooking the truth that we need Him in us so we can follow Him.



The Jews kept the ten commandments to obtain salvation for why there can be nothing on our part in saving ourselves when our believing in Him is a work of God the Father.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Indeed, the preaching of the cross is the power of God in salvation to save those that believe in Him; not water baptism.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

We are to come to Him for that rest in Jesus Christ' for our salvation, not to the sabbath and not to water baptism.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We share many beliefs. I think we both agree that "believing in Jesus" is identical to "believing Jesus" for how can one do the one and not the other, right or wrong? Can a man say, "I believe in Jesus' power to save me" but in the same breath say, "I don't believe what Jesus said is true"?

 

[Truther]

Without baptism, on

It is a spiritual birth. We died to our old selves/ways, yet we haven't been buried yet. We render ourselves as dead, yet sin still dwells in the members of our flesh. Our spirit is pure. We are waiting our full redemption, death amd resurrection. There is a tension between the two realms. My Pastor used to say we are in the "already but not yet" realm.

Via baptism, one is buried with Christ.

Those that are saved(alive) before baptism are buried alive.

That is frightening.

 

[Truther]

"By their FRUITS ye shall know them." IOW, does their profession of mouth match the actions of their hands?

Which fruits do you use to measure folks' spirituality?

 

[user]

Can a man say, "I believe in Jesus' power to save me" but in the same breath say, "I don't believe what Jesus said is true"?

Yes. By denying Acts 2:38...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Phoneman777]

i was baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And no, i am not saved. Baptism doesnt save anyone.

Wow, either "no, I am not saved" means "I am not YET saved, but I am in a saving relationship with Christ" (which incidentally is totally Biblical, because technically the climactic destruction from which we are to be saved is still future)....or, you are not in a saving relationship with Jesus at all.

If the latter is true, can I ask why?

 

[Phoneman777]

Which fruits do you use to measure folks' spirituality?

Truther, as a Christian, you're supposed to be a fruit inspector. Are you telling me you don't know what is the criteria for inspecting fruit? Check out Leviticus 19:17 KJV ;) (please refer to the KJV, not this flawed hover-version)

 

[user]

Wow, either "no, I am not saved" means "I am not YET saved, but I am in a saving relationship with Christ" (which incidentally is totally Biblical, because technically the climactic destruction from which we are to be saved is still future)....or, you are not in a saving relationship with Jesus at all.

If the latter is true, can I ask why?

But wait ... he is a "believer"! So to some he is repented, baptized, saved and heaven bound (all in the one belief).

Or ... simply "believing is not enough.

 

[Phoneman777]

Reads that our believing in Him is the work of the Father.

Ultimately, the Father leads us to choose, but we must make the choice. "It is the goodness of God that LEADETH thee to repentance" but we must choose to do the repenting, right or wrong?

Everything Jesus said about discipleship has nothing to do with salvation for it is by believing in Him, even in His name, is how we are born again.

I wouldn't say "nothing to do with salvation" when what we do and say is intricately tied to salvation...when it comes to the evidence for whether we're saved or not (1 John 2:3-4 KJV). Our words and deeds prove the condition of our heart - good trees bring forth good fruit and bad trees bad fruit, no matter what the tree's nameplate says.

Since our believing in Him is a work of God, there really is no grounds for how our will took a part in believing in Him when we needed His help to believe in Him.

Where does it say our belief in Him is a work of God? If belief was all God and not us, then it would not have been necessary for God to have "dealt to all men a measure of faith" because the exercise thereof would not be necessary.

 

[Phoneman777]

Spiritually, we have been born again and are dead to sin because Christ paid the penalty for our sins. The wages of sin is death. We in essence were transported back in time with Christ on the cross and died with Him, and rose with Him, a new creature. However, we still have our flesh. We are not slaves to sin and so we are to render ourselves dead. Yet, our old selves/ways seem to resurface and we fall into temptation. It is not sin that carries the penalty of death though - how could it be. Christ died once. We are only born again once. It's a done deal. At death, our pure spirits separate from our flesh and we go to be with the Lord, spotless, white as snow.
In Heaven, outside of our time domain, when Christ died, all generations, past present and future who lived by faith in the Lord and Saviour, died and when He was resurrected, so were we - even though in our physical realm it hasn't happened yet. God sees all and knows all, which is how each and every name was written into the Book of Life for all time. That is His perfect plan.
This is difficult for our finite minds to conceive. We just must accept that the election of all who have been or will be saved is just part of what we call God's soverign plan.

I think we'll agree there's a Biblical distinction between the Just Man who slips, trips, and "falls into sin", and the Presumptuous Man who "climbs down a ladder into the pit, sits comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifiting hand of Jesus, and pushes a OSAS License to Sin in His face."

There is mercy and grace for the Just Man, but the Presumptuous Man who "covers" his sin and refuses to "confesseth and forsaketh them" (Proverbs 28:13 KJV) will split hell wide open, no matter how much he shouts hallelujah and holy-rolls among the filth and debris of the pit.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Those that are saved(alive) before baptism are buried alive.

How could be saved before you are baptized by the Holy Spirit? Your statement contradicts itself.
I hope you are not implying that water baptism saves? It is your belief in Christ that saves as it did with those who believed in Christ on Pentecost. They were saved instantly - not by water baptism, but by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Thebthief next to Chrjst was not water baptized, yet he was granted entrance into Paradise that day.