Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[PinSeeker]

Understand that robert derrick thinks he doesnt commit a single sin on any given day. Yea, he’s another wackydoodle.

Eh… I wouldn’t call him a “wackydoodle,” or anything like that, really…

But he does have some really warped ideas about some things, including what it means for God to have given us to Christ Jesus through new birth by His Spirit and just how irrevocable, irreversible and thus incontrovertible and invincible ~ un-lose-able ~ that is.

And really, his misunderstanding extends even to Who God is and that His purposes cannot be thwarted (Job 42). We have been set free from the law of sin and death, no longer slaves to unrighteousness and now ~ and forevermore ~ slaves to righteousness. God’s inerrant, infallible, truly true Word is crystal clear on that throughout, especially through Jesus’s statements in John 6, Paul’s statements in Romans 5 and 8 and Ephesians 1-2, Peter’s statements in 1 Peter 1, James’s statements in James 1, and John’s statements in 1 John 1-2 and Revelation 20.

But even apart from that, what he’s really railing against ~ without even realizing it, I guess ~ is antinomianism, and that there is no reason not to sin because there are no longer any consequences of sin, no longer any judgment for sin, administered by God, that we have a “license” and are even encouraged to sin. And I would join him in that fight, as that’s terribly wrong… even heretical.

Grace and peace to you!

 

[robert derrick]

Understand that robert derrick thinks he doesnt commit a single sin on any given day. Yea, he’s another wackydoodle.

No surprise how sinners just keep on lying.

I've often asked for a list of these sins, that these sinners love to say they commit daily, and never got any.

I know one for sure:

And all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[robert derrick]

We are not responsible for staying saved. We are not judged for our sins, because God doesn't see them in the blood!

There was free sex for unbelieving hippies, and now there is free sin for believing sinners.

OSAS is not responsible for their soul's salvation, nor are their souls accountable for their sins: they are free to sin as they please without wage and judgement of death for their sins.

Their filthy grace is their very own get-out-of-jail-free-card.

After so many generations, OSAS has become the completely degenerated offspring of their father Calvin, who preached the devil's doctrine of pre-election of souls before they ever were conceived in this world:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

We are not responsible for staying saved. We are not judged for our sins, because God doesn't see them in the blood!

There was free sex for unbelieving hippies, and now there is free sin for believing sinners.

OSAS is not responsible for their soul's salvation, nor are their souls accountable for their sins: they are free to sin as they please without wage and judgement of death for their sins.

Their filthy grace is their very own get-out-of-jail-free-card.

After so many generations, OSAS has become the completely degenerated offspring of their father Calvin, who preached the devil's doctrine of pre-election of souls before they ever were conceived in this world:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

you deny that God knew if you were going to get to Heaven before you were even born.
You deny the fact that you sin everyday.
Your words dont mean much.
John calvin was a great christian man. He’s also in Heaven.

 

[JesusFan1]

Go and sin no more.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

The main difference between wretched double mindedness and celebratory double mindedness of OSAS is that the honestly double minded will agree we ought not be going to sin more, and leave it at that.

But OSAS must always go on to qualify it with, Oh yes! Much agreed! BUT we will do so again...much to our chagrin. (That rhymed pretty good: But we will do so again, much to our chagrin! I think I've discovered the OSAS motto here: "But we will sin again, much to our chagrin!")

The only thing that will ever be made perfect about OSAS is willful double mindedness.

Scripture is for the perfecting of the saints. OSAS is for the perfecting of double mindedness...with celebratory grace for the glory of God.

"To sin again we ought not so to do, but we will sin again, much to our chagrin! Yea, we shall sin, again and again and again, much to our chagrin!"

Something Longfellow could appreciate.

"I have sinned! I am so chagrinned!" "I have sinned agained! And I am so chagrinned agained!" "Why art thou so chagrinned? Hast that sinned? Agained?"

C'mon. You've got to love this stuff.

There is eternal security in Christ for the redeemed of the Lord

 

[JesusFan1]

you deny that God knew if you were going to get to Heaven before you were even born.
You deny the fact that you sin everyday.
Your words dont mean much.
John calvin was a great christian man. He’s also in Heaven.

Jesus died and paid the sin debt for ALL sins ever committed by the redeemed, not just prior ones, and then not put on a probationary period to see if we "earned it"

 

[robert derrick]

There is eternal security in Christ for the redeemed of the Lord

There is eternal security in Christ for the redeemed of the Lord who obey Him.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

OSAS always pathetically falls short, both in ongoing sins and ongoing twisting of Scripture to stay ongoing in their fallen state of sins and trespasses.

OSAS doesn't teach doctrine of Christ, because they don't believe the Scriptures as written, that they might teach them as such.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

I.e. OSAS is heretick, because it's teaching is all ticky with sin and wresting of Scripture for sin's sake.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus died and paid the sin debt for ALL sins ever committed by the redeemed, not just prior ones, and then not put on a probationary period to see if we "earned it"

Your lies about Scripture don't work with God's eternal salvation, which is only for them that obey Him.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jesus died for the sins of ALL the world, not just the redeemed, who are sanctified from ALL the world.

Not ALL the world is redeemed, because not ALL the world are washed clean from their sins by the blood of the Lamb.

Neither is ALL the world, nor the saints in Christ Jesus, just covered in the blood of the Lamb, like that of a bull or goat, and so only have their sins covered from sight of God's judgment as in the OT.

Being saved is not 'probationary', as the ignorant like to call it, but is being in the good fight and race unto the end to obtain eternal salvation, and thus proving their obedience to Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

Being saved is not being in a lousy fight and unlawful race unto death, and thus proving their sinfulness in the face of Jesus as Saviour only and not Lord.

The gospel of the unconditional christ and saviour, is the accursed gospel of another christ, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

There is eternal security in Christ for the redeemed of the Lord

Exactly. Jesus is the founder and protector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). And faith itself is the God-given ~ "this is not [our] own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" [Ephesians 2:8-9] ~ assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

Yes, we are to "work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling," but this working out is what we are exhorted to do in light of the fact that "it is God who works in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13).

So, obedience is a sure product of this God-given faith, as not the other way around. This "other way around" ~ which is that faith is a product of obedience, or something that we self-generate and maintain through obedience ~ is wholly man-centered (antithetical to Hebrews 12:1-2, cited above) and thus no assurance at all (antithetical to Hebrews 11:1, cited above). It is particularly opposed to God's Word through James, specifically James 2, where James says that good works are the product and outward evidence of faith, that if there are no good works (including obedience) to validate this God-given faith, then true faith has not been given ~ faith without works is dead. This antithetical "understanding" is unfortunately where Robert is in his understanding, or lack thereof.

This whole discussion is misdirected, though, as I said, because what Robert is really railing against ~ without even knowing it, but I wholeheartedly agree with him in this, regardless of his not being aware of it ~ is antinomianism, which says that Christians can live however they want, for the law is in no way binding for believers. None of the Reformers, Martin Luther, John Calvin, or any since, were antinomians (people who believe we do not need to follow God’s commandments).

Grace and peace to all.

 

[JesusFan1]

There is eternal security in Christ for the redeemed of the Lord who obey Him.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

OSAS always pathetically falls short, both in ongoing sins and ongoing twisting of Scripture to stay ongoing in their fallen state of sins and trespasses.

OSAS doesn't teach doctrine of Christ, because they don't believe the Scriptures as written, that they might teach them as such.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

I.e. OSAS is heretick, because it's teaching is all ticky with sin and wresting of Scripture for sin's sake.

Eternal Security is a valid biblical doctrine, as it depends upon the Trinity to save and keep us, not ourselves!

 

[Cooper]

Eternal Security is a valid biblical doctrine, as it depends upon the Trinity to save and keep us, not ourselves!

True, provided we do not turn our back on God. Otherwise, we are eternally secure.
.

 

[JesusFan1]

Exactly. Jesus is the founder and protector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). And faith itself is the God-given ~ "this is not [our] own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast" [Ephesians 2:8-9] ~ assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

Yes, we are to "work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling," but this working out is what we are exhorted to do in light of the fact that "it is God who works in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13).

So, obedience is a sure product of this God-given faith, as not the other way around. This "other way around" ~ which is that faith is a product of obedience, or something that we self-generate and maintain through obedience ~ is wholly man-centered (antithetical to Hebrews 12:1-2, cited above) and thus no assurance at all (antithetical to Hebrews 11:1, cited above). It is particularly opposed to God's Word through James, specifically James 2, where James says that good works are the product and outward evidence of faith, that if there are no good works (including obedience) to validate this God-given faith, then true faith has not been given ~ faith without works is dead. This antithetical "understanding" is unfortunately where Robert is in his understanding, or lack thereof.

This whole discussion is misdirected, though, as I said, because what Robert is really railing against ~ without even knowing it, but I wholeheartedly agree with him in this, regardless of his not being aware of it ~ is antinomianism, which says that Christians can live however they want, for the law is in no way binding for believers. None of the Reformers, Martin Luther, John Calvin, or any since, were antinomians (people who believe we do not need to follow God’s commandments).

Grace and peace to all.

I am addressing this from the viewpoint of one who holds to a Calvinist Baptist framework on salvation now

 

[JesusFan1]

True, provided we do not turn our back on God. Otherwise, we are eternally secure.
.

The saved will NOT turn their backs on God, as have the new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit residing in them!

 

[Cooper]

The saved will NOT turn their backs on God, as have the new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit residing in them!

The Bible tells us we can turn our back on God. See Hebrews 6:4-6.

 

[PinSeeker]

I am addressing this from the viewpoint of one who holds to a Calvinist Baptist framework on salvation now

That can mean a couple of different things, I think. Are you a "4-point Calvinist" (rather than 5, the 'L' what you disagree with)?

 

[PinSeeker]

The Bible tells us we can turn our back on God. See Hebrews 6:4-6.

This passage (actually vv.4-8) has been subject to substantially different interpretations. The central debate concerns whether the descriptions of those who were enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the goodness of the word of God depict people who were once true Christians. They were not. They may have participated fully in the Christian covenantal community, but when people do fall away, it is clear that they are not true Christians because they have not made a true, saving response (or disavowed what they thought was a true, saving response) to the Gospel, resulting in genuine faith, love, and perseverance (vv.9-12). In other words, they may have participated outwardly in the Christian community and they even may have shared in the blessings of Christian fellowship, but inwardly, like the seed that fell on rocky ground in the parable of the sower, "they have no root" (Mark 4:17) and they fall away when faced with persecution. In this way, it fits hand in hand with John's assertion that those they were formerly in fellowship with "went out from us, but they were not of us..." ~ not born of the Holy Spirit, not true Christians; they never were ~ "...for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." Also, these who fall away could not have been given to Jesus by the Father, because, as Jesus Himself says, in John 6:39. "...this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given me, but raise it up on the last day."

Grace and peace to you.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

True, provided we do not turn our back on God. Otherwise, we are eternally secure.

Precious friend, sorry, no such condition for any member of The Body Of CHRIST!
Please prayerfully/Carefully Consider "the carnal sinning saint" of Corinth:

1Co_5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of
the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in The Day Of The Lord Jesus."
+
God Confirms This Very thing (ETERNAL Salvation) At The Judgment Day!:

1Co_3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself
SHALL Be SAVED; yet so as by fire."

How is that men's "temporary Conditions" Override God's Plain and Clear
ETERNAL Words Of Life?:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In CHRIST, And
HIS Precious WORD Of Truth!!

 

[robert derrick]

Eternal Security is a valid biblical doctrine, as it depends upon the Trinity to save and keep us, not ourselves!

All OSAS are all liars against Scripture. Just let them talk long enough, and they will show their carnal minded natures, not having the Spirit of truth:

as it depends upon the Trinity to save and keep us, not ourselves!

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

As I said, Heretical teaching contrary to Scripture for the express purpose of continuing in sins and trespasses against God.

OSAS doesn't keep themselves from the sins of the devil for eternal salvation, because there is no eternal salvation for them to keep.

For the saint in Christ Jesus, eternal salvation is worth keeping themselves from sins for.

For OSAS in another christ, eternal salvation isn't worth it, and so they choose for themselves another salvation, which is not worth keeping themselves from sins for.

God's eternal salvation is worth keeping ourselves from going on in sins, and His saints to do so. OSAS salvation isn't worth keeping themselves from going on in sins, so they don't.

Simple.

 

[JesusFan1]

The Bible tells us we can turn our back on God. See Hebrews 6:4-6.

They who do such were never saved to start ! They professed Jesus, but never had Him!

 

[JesusFan1]

That can mean a couple of different things, I think. Are you a "4-point Calvinist" (rather than 5, the 'L' what you disagree with)?

Nope, am a five pointer, hold to all points of Tulip!