Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

[GodsGrace]

How can they be so ignorant of the exalted divinity of the mother of God?
Or of the immaculate queen of heaven?

just an ordinary girl?

really?

that’s like saying the ark of the covenant is just a box!

or the holy of Holies is just a hall?

I agree with you Theefaith.
But not everyone will.
And I think you push too much on a doctrine that cannot be biblically proven.
I'm having a difficult time trying to understand what the ECFs believed.
If you have any references, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

What Did Christ command the apostles here?

ROme "Claims" to have written the Scriptures, so why don't they READ THEM and FOLLOW THEM??

 

[GodsGrace]

No! No! No!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
also Titus 3:5

Catholic theologians believe John 3:5 refers to water as in baptism. This can be supported and I know how.
Protestant theologians believe it could be either water or natural child birth (amniotic fluid) and I understand how it could be natural childbirth.
We could discuss if you want but I don't know if this is the place.

Personally, I believe it refers to natural child birth because Nicodemus asks Jesus how a person could enter again into the mother's womb.
Those for water baptism also make great points.

Also, I can understand better how one has to be born PHYSICALLY
and how one has to be born SPIRITUALLY.

Your reply above does not support any idea that I can see regarding the post to which you're replying.

Do you believe every baptized person in the CC is going to heaven?

 

[GodsGrace]

I hate the fact that Roman Catholicism AS A THEOLOGICAL SYSTEM preaches a FALSE DOCTRINAL SYSTEM that leads their victims totally astray, and AWAY from the simplicity of the Gospel, substituting instead a system of "Salvation by WORKS" in violation of the Biblical teaching that Luther (and others) pointed out under the anointing of God that SALVATION IS BY FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross - PLUS NOTHING.

Good works will inevitably be the RESULT of having been Born Again of the Holy Spirit BY FAITH (gifted by God).

The ROman Catholic Church is not and NEVER WAS "the one true church", and is, in fact "Just another" collection of warring internal denominations among thousands in the Visible church systems, and which doean't even appear to have a Christian as it's leader.

Not to speak of the boat loads of phony doctrines, titles, unbiblical religious practices, and Horrendously bloody history. AT LEAST the ROman Catholics don't murder everybody who gets in their way anymore - I guess that's progress.

LOL

I see it as the opposite:
I see from history and believe that the CC is the ORIGINAL church, stemming from the Apostles.
This does not mean the one true church since every church has truths and maybe NO CHURCH has all the truth (as the CC claims to have).
It started out just fine...Study the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers and all is pure and good.
Until 325AD when everything BEGINS to fall apart, and is even more rapid in the middle ages.

Unfortunately, the CC got lost along the way AND has made some doctrine and/or dogma that is beyond what we can find in scrpture..although, oddly enough, they can support what they believe, even if they're skating on this ice in some cases.

We must be aware of God and serve Him,
we must do good works, as we are able in order to serve Him,

And every church has wrong doctrine.

I don't believe persons in the CC are being led astray.
I attend Mass and Jesus is spoken of at every Mass that I've attended.
Maybe this church has changed since we were young?
I know it has.
Let's give them a chance...they made mistakes and know it.
They're trying to fix them.
And MANY await the departure of this Pope.

 

[theefaith]

~ “theefaith....always signifies a mission or ministry!

No it doesn’t. What was “Sarah’s” mission? ministry?




Jurisdictional authority, prime minister, administer the kingdom....?

Far out! LOL

Preachers/Teachers with the Word of God IN their mouth and Power of God IN
Them have the authority to Fasten (BIND) the faithful with them and Release (LOOSEN) the unfaithful from being with them.

Christ is far out???


Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

 

[theefaith]

I agree with you Theefaith.
But not everyone will.
And I think you push too much on a doctrine that cannot be biblically proven.
I'm having a difficult time trying to understand what the ECFs believed.
If you have any references, I'd appreciate it.

Sorry that’s a typo, spell check not exalted divinity, but exalted dignity!

churchfathers.org is a good one

 

[theefaith]

Something that the Roman Catholics have never really done - in favor of their worthless, and sometimes out satanic TRADITIONS. ROme "Claims" to have written the Scriptures, so why don't they READ THEM and FOLLOW THEM??

the church of the apostles know the answer, and without the apostles you CANNOT know or obey and obedience to commandments is required for salvation

 

[theefaith]

Catholic theologians believe John 3:5 refers to water as in baptism. This can be supported and I know how.
Protestant theologians believe it could be either water or natural child birth (amniotic fluid) and I understand how it could be natural childbirth.
We could discuss if you want but I don't know if this is the place.

Personally, I believe it refers to natural child birth because Nicodemus asks Jesus how a person could enter again into the mother's womb.
Those for water baptism also make great points.
No it does not say born of water and born again of the spirit!

it says born again of water AND the spirit


Also, I can understand better how one has to be born PHYSICALLY
and how one has to be born SPIRITUALLY.

Your reply above does not support any idea that I can see regarding the post to which you're replying.

The Christian sacrament of baptism
They go to the river and BAPTIZE!
Jn 4:1 matt 28:19 make disciples by baptism

Do you believe every baptized person in the CC is going to heaven?

no to this question

 

[Taken]

I agree and have tried explaining that many times but to no avail. We can only pray for those who are deceived in this way that they will see the truth.

It’s quirky.
Conversion is forgiveness, salvation, quickening, baptism of the HS, keeping....etc. all the works of God for a heart-ful confession.
Really, infants are confessing belief?

 

[Taken]

Christ is far out???

Really? I posted to you, and you confuse yourself with Christ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry that’s a typo, spell check not exalted divinity, but exalted dignity!

churchfathers.org is a good one

LOL
Thanks for the link.

 

[GodsGrace]

It’s quirky.
Conversion is forgiveness, salvation, quickening, baptism of the HS, keeping....etc. all the works of God for a heart-ful confession.
Really, infants are confessing belief?

It's past midnight here Taken
So not now...

But,
If you'd like to learn why infants are baptized, I'd be happy to go thru it.

I hope you're not here just to criticize.

 

[Pearl]

divinity of the mother of God?

Mary was not divine.

 

[Pearl]

Luke 1:28
Wycliffe (Protestant) Bible

28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed bethou among women.

Well okay, but it does not say she was born anything but human. Only God is sinless.

 

[Taken]

It's past midnight here Taken
So not now...

But,
If you'd like to learn why infants are baptized, I'd be happy to go thru it.

I hope you're not here just to criticize.

Who do You agree with what is not Scripturally written?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

the church of the apostles know the answer, and without the apostles you CANNOT know or obey and obedience to commandments is required for salvation

PURE FOOLISHNESS.
The Holy Spirit is every bit as present in 2021 as He was when he gave Peter the answer to Jesus' question (who do you say I am). The Roman Catholic corp. is no more the "Church of the APostles" than the local "Masonic Lodge" is. James lets us know that "IF WE LACK WISDOM" The Spirit will supply it freely - AS LONG AS we ask single mindedly. The Apostles are all DEAD, There's no such thing as "Apostolis Succession" as your history PROVES, and your "Roman thing" is led by a Ringer at present.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

LOL

Let's give them a chance...they made mistakes and know it.

I Absolutely DOUBT at the "Executive level" that they think there's any mistakes, and I see no tendency for them to "Fix anything". Luther gave them a HUGE CHANCE, and it's a miracle they weren't able to murder him for it. The 1970s were another HUGE chance, and while the then Pope (Paul 6) was somewhat accepting of the Charismatic Outpouring, he cautioned against questioning any of Rome's "Precious doctrines or Traditions" - so NOTHING got fixed.

And MANY await the departure of this Pope.

SO - why did your "Holy Spirit led College of Cardinals" elect that ringer in the first place?????

 

[Illuminator]

PURE FOOLISHNESS.
The Holy Spirit is every bit as present in 2021 as He was when he gave Peter the answer to Jesus' question (who do you say I am). The Roman Catholic corp. is no more the "Church of the APostles" than the local "Masonic Lodge" is. James lets us know that "IF WE LACK WISDOM" The Spirit will supply it freely - AS LONG AS we ask single mindedly. The Apostles are all DEAD, There's no such thing as "Apostolis Succession" as your history PROVES, and your "Roman thing" is led by a Ringer at present.

I Absolutely DOUBT at the "Executive level" that they think there's any mistakes, and I see no tendency for them to "Fix anything". Luther gave them a HUGE CHANCE, and it's a miracle they weren't able to murder him for it. The 1970s were another HUGE chance, and while the then Pope (Paul 6) was somewhat accepting of the Charismatic Outpouring, he cautioned against questioning any of Rome's "Precious doctrines or Traditions" - so NOTHING got fixed.

SO - why did your "Holy Spirit led College of Cardinals" elect that ringer in the first place?????

Your raw hatred for the Catholic Church makes you an embarrassment for most Protestants.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well okay, but it does not say she was born anything but human. Only God is sinless.

Well again we get the point.....most of what going with Miriam is not in the Bible. So Bible only. Why be concerned about it?
Protestants are Bible only.....but that does not define Christianity. Stay in the corral and quite looking over the fence. You are concerned about something that you are not suppose to believe in. Fine don't believe....no offense.

The Bible does not even believe in the Bible....LOL...Christ never told them to write anything down.....He was going to return soon.
He did not say anything about a book. He nor the scriptures ever implied that ....God will speak no more! No more divine events! But what He did say is that... I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Maybe He would have told them the name of the Holy Spirit?.....Why a sin against the Holy Spirit is worse than a sin against Christ and His Father.....What happened between the testaments that made it so that the Messiah had to be a God....the Son of God...Why a betrothed woman was impregnated by God?....About who got married at Cana?....Why did witches worship and give Christ a treasure?.....How come John the Baptist could forgive sins by baptism?.....How could it be that Christ was a High Priest of the Order of Melchizedek.....Why would Christians be punished for nearly 300 years in the in the most horrible ways imaginable?.....Why was it that He did not return soon?......Why weddings are a good thing and slavery is not?

There is 2000 years of Christian history out there with a lot of God and divine events in it.....Protestantism is a theological corral....a limit to understanding....to only know the first 65 years of Christianity.....Good stuff....But why complain about those that do not limit their understanding of God and Christianity to the first 65 years?

Maybe He would tell them about Miriam......many things......many things....What were those many things?.....The Protestants say....No many things! No things! Shut up! God! We only believe what is in the Bible! God has no power after the close of the Bible! And He better not say or do anything that was not discussed in the Bible or it is from the devil!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Your raw hatred for the Catholic Church makes you an embarrassment for most Protestants.

Just stating facts, y'all. And it appears that the "hatred" for Bergoglio, is more prevalent among Roman Catholics than it is with me. IF I'm "embarrassing Protestants" then they're completely free to say so right here.