How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, terry.

Son of Man the covenant spoken of is the peace plan established by the anti-christ and confirmed by Satan. When the anti-christ is mortally wounded Satan overtakes his body.... possess it. When Satan enters the inner sanctum it is the "celebration ceremony" for the even when he overtook the body of the anti-christ. When Satan has the image made off the beast and gives it life... where do you think he gets that life? Of course. he gets it from the anti-christ whose body he took over, hence the reason the image is made for the beast. When Satan enters the inner-sanctum for one week... half way through that week he emerges in all of Satan's beauty. and he confirms the covenant if which the anti-christ developed. ....a working model.

No, neither one of you is correct. The covenant "confirmed with many for one seven" is the DAVIDIC COVENANT as noted in 2 Samu'el 7:8-17 and 23:5 and described in Psalm 89:

2 Samuel 7:8-17
8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:
9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
KJV

2 Samuel 23:1-5
1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
4 And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.
5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.
KJV

Psalm 89:1-52
1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.
45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
46 How long, LORD? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
49 Lord, where are thy former lovingkindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
50 Remember, Lord, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O LORD; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
52 Blessed be the LORD for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
KJV

These words were confirmed in the statement of the Father at Yeshua`s baptism:

Matthew 3:13-17
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
KJV

Mark 1:9-11
9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
KJV

Luke 3:21-22
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
KJV

 

[veteran]

The latest "gap" in the 70 sevens of Gavri'el's prophecy shared with Dani'el was IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 70TH SEVEN! After Yeshua`s "ministry" of 3.5 years (actually, His offer of the Kingdom and Himself as its King), HE pronounced them "desolate" (Matthew 23:37-39)! (And, for those who can't see the obvious, the MIDDLE of the 70th seven is "AFTER" the 62 sevens.)

The pact of Dan.9:27 is written to last ONLY 3.5 years, and it's not the Davidic covenant, nor the New Covenant. How can we know?

The Davidic covenant is NEVER to be broken according to God's Promise. It had already been given and put in effect even before Daniel's day. So trying to assign a 3.5 year period to it is an illusion.

Nowhere in God's Word does it say The New Covenant will ever end, so the 3.5 years certainly cannot apply to that.

And the Matt.23 Scripture event where Jesus pronounced Jerusalem desolate to the unbelieving Jews did not actually occur until around 40 years... after He said that, when the Roman army invaded and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem.

Moreover, NO 'abomination of desolation' idol in the temple event per the Dan.9:27 verse ever occurred in that period of Christ's first coming, nor thereafter, and still not yet today.

 

[teleiosis]

Shalom, terry. No, neither one of you is correct. The covenant "confirmed with many for one seven" is the DAVIDIC COVENANT as noted in 2 Samu'el 7:8-17 and 23:5 and described in Psalm 89: These words were confirmed in the statement of the Father at Yeshua`s baptism:

Not only is the one 'seven' NOT the promise you note for the future Messiah, the whole premise for what you are basing this on: gabar, does NOT mean "confirm" as defined by your use of it in your last sentence. It is not an affirmation. gabar when used as a verb means to prevail and this usually implies by might, especially military might. While gabar is predominantly used to describe how strong God is, it is also used in the Old Testament to describe man rising up before God in defiance.

The 'he' in the conjugation of gabar in Daniel 9:27 reverts back to the last person mentioned: the prince who shall come as further defined as being from the people who would destroy the city and the sanctuary: the Romans.

The person who will prevail an agreement with many for one 'seven' is the King of the North: the anti-Christ.

An excellent example of the type of might by which he will acheive this feat was demonstrated when the Quadrain had the Israeli Army evict Israelis from their homes in the Gaza Strip before handing that land back to the Arabs under the auspices of the Roadmap. The means to begin the one 'seven' are already planned and underway; the time is not right yet.

 

[JLB]

Consider the Jerusalem Covenant, that came about May 19, 1993 as the "confirmed covenant" of Daniel 9.

The following is a quote - see link -



Jerusalem - The historic Covenant of Jerusalem was presented to the Israeli government on Wednesday, May 19, 1993.

It marked the conclusion of a year of celebrating the 25th anniversary of the Holy City's reunification, which reaffirmed the indelible bond between the Jewish people and its eternal spiritual and cultural capital.
On May 31, 1992 a proclamation, under the signatures of Deputy Minister Avraham Verdiger, Mayor Teddy Kollek and Jewish Agency Chairman Simcha Dinitz, was sent to Jewish communities around the world, inviting them to share in this moment of history with Jerusalem.
Ministry Director-General Yeshayahu Barzel said the year-long celebration had three goals. First, to strengthen the feeling that the entire Jewish people stand united with Israel on the indivisibility of Jerusalem; second, to impart to all Jews - especially those in the former Soviet Union who have been cut off from world Jewry for four generations - a feeling of unity; and third, to remind the non-Jewish world that the entire Jewish people are unified on the emotional and religious significance Jerusalem has for Jews everywhere.
Although there has been considerable opposition from those who want Jerusalem to be an "international city," the covenant of Jerusalem was inspired by the covenant renewal ceremony convened by Ezra and Nehemiah for the Israelites who returned to their homeland from Babylon.



The Jerusalem Covenant

As of this day, Jerusalem Day, the twenty-eight day of the month of Iyar in the year five thousand seven hundred fifty-two; one thousand nine hundred and twenty-two years after the destruction of the Second Temple; forty-four years since the founding of the State of Israel; twenty-five years since the Six Day War during which the Israel Defense Forces, in defense of our very existence, broke through the walls of the city and restored the Temple Mount and the unity of Jerusalem; twelve years since the Knesset of Israel reestablished the 'Jerusalem, unified and whole, is the Capital of Israel'; the State of Israel is the State of the 'Jewish People' and the Capital of Israel is the Capital of the People of Israel. We have gathered together in Zion, national leaders and heads, of our communities everywhere, to enter into a covenant with Jersualem, as was done by the leaders of our nation and all the people of Israel upon Israel's return to its Land from the "Babylonian exile; and the people and their leaders will dwell in Jerusalem, the Holy City.
Once again, 'our feet stand within your gates, O Jerusalem - Jerusalem built as a city joined together' which 'unites the people of Israel to one another', and 'links heavenly Jerusalem with earthly Jerusalem.'
We have returned to the place that the Lord vowed to bestow upon the descendants of Abraham, Father of our Nation; to the City of David, King of Israel; where Solomon, son of David, built a Holy Temple; a Capital City which became the Mother of all Israel; a metropolis for justice and righteousness and for the wisdom and insights of the ancient world; where a Second Temple was erected in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah. In this city the prophets of the Lord prophesied; in the City the Sages taught Torah; in this City the Sanhedrin convened in session in its stone chamber. 'For there were the seats of Justice, the Throne of the House of David', 'for out of Zion shall go forth Torah, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem.'
Today, as of old, we hold fast to the truth of the words of the Prophets of Israel, that all the inhabitants of the world shall enter within the gates of Jerusalem: 'And it shall come to pass at the end of days, the mountain of the House of the Lord will be well established at the peak of the mountains and will tower above the hills, and all the nation shall stream towards it.' Each and every nation will live in it by its own faith: 'For all the nation will go forward, each with its own Divine Name; we shall go in the name of the Lord our God forever and ever.' And in this spirit the Knesset of the State of Israel has enacted a law: The places holy to the peoples of all religions shall be protected from any desecration and from any restriction of free access to them.
Jerusalem - peace and tranquility shall reign in the city: 'Pray for the peace of Jerusalem; may those who love you be tranquil. May there by peace within your walls, and tranquility within your palaces.' Out of Jerusalem, a message of peace went forth and shall yet go forth again to all the inhabitants of the earth: 'And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation will not lift up sword against nation, nor shall they learn war any more.' Our sages, peace be upon them, said. In the future, The Holy One, the Blessed, will comfort Jerusalem only with peace.
From this place, we once again take this vow: "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand lose its strength; may my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not raise up Jerusalem at the very height of my rejoicing.'
And with all these understandings, we enter into this Covenant and write: We shall bind you to us forever; we shall bind you to us with faithfulness, with righteousness and justice, with steadfast love and compassion. We love you, O Jerusalem, with eternal love, with unbounded love, under siege and when liberated from the yoke of oppressors. We have been martyred for you; we have yearned for you, we have clung to you. Our faithfulness to you we shall bequeath to our children after us. Forevermore our home shall be within you. ​

​

Thanks, JLB

 

[teleiosis]

Nope. That was not the start of the one 'seven.' Now it's laughable. So we're 12 years into the Millennium now? LOL!

 

[JLB]

Nope. That was not the start of the one 'seven.' Now it's laughable. So we're 12 years into the Millennium now? LOL!

Daniels 70 th week has not started. It will start when the Antichrist confirms "a covenant".

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;


The Jerusalem covenant is a likely candidate for being the covenant which he confirms, that will validate the Jews claim on Jerusalem and allow them to rebuild the temple.

No one is saying The Millennium has started! I am not saying this covenant has been "confirmed" yet, only that it exists and is waiting to be confirmed!


Thanks, JLB

 

[veteran]

Apparently, the coming false messiah must be here for that "league" of Dan.11, which would explain why all previous attempts, including the one of 1993, have failed to fulfill the Scripture. It's simply because the false messiah has not appeared yet.

According to the prophecy about the coming false one, his appearance is going to have something to do with healing the "deadly wound" to the beast. That deadly wound is upon one of the seven heads of the kingdom beast per Rev.13. I believe the Scriptures is pointing to a supernatural fake messiah, not just any ordinary man. Per Matt.24:24, Rev.13:11-14, and 2 Thess.2:3-4, his working of great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, etc., is pointing to a supernatural entity given powers to deceive one into actually believing he is God. Those who don't know the warnings in God's Word against that working will easily be deceived into thinking he's God. It won't just trick the unbelievers, but many Christian brethren also who instead trust in their Church organizational system, or some preacher instead of getting into God's Word for theirselves.

The level of supernatural power of signs and miracles that false one is to do also explains how the short time of a fake "Peace and safety" which Apostle Paul taught could actually occur over the whole earth as prophesied. Under such a change in international relations between the nations and the world's religions that would more likely present the scenario of allowing the Orthodox Jews to rebuild their temple and start up Old Covenant worship in it again.

 

[JLB]

Under such a change in international relations between the nations and the world's religions that would more likely present the scenario of allowing the Orthodox Jews to rebuild their temple and start up Old Covenant worship in it again.


The Jerusalem covenant provides the framework for that scenario.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

The pact of Dan.9:27 is written to last ONLY 3.5 years, and it's not the Davidic covenant, nor the New Covenant. How can we know?

The Davidic covenant is NEVER to be broken according to God's Promise. It had already been given and put in effect even before Daniel's day. So trying to assign a 3.5 year period to it is an illusion.

Nowhere in God's Word does it say The New Covenant will ever end, so the 3.5 years certainly cannot apply to that.

And the Matt.23 Scripture event where Jesus pronounced Jerusalem desolate to the unbelieving Jews did not actually occur until around 40 years... after He said that, when the Roman army invaded and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem.

Moreover, NO 'abomination of desolation' idol in the temple event per the Dan.9:27 verse ever occurred in that period of Christ's first coming, nor thereafter, and still not yet today.

According to YOUR take, you mean.

You're right about the New Covenant. That's why that covenant does not apply.

However, you are QUITE wrong about the Davidic Covenant. That agreement between God and David and David's sons as kings is intact and is PRECISELY what Yeshua`s offer of the Kingdom to Isra'el was all about! The "confirmation" of that covenant was simply Yeshua`s offer as the Messiah of prophecy to Isra'el and specifically to the Jews in His time period. He was anointed to follow in His father David's footsteps as the King of the Jews, then the King of Isra'el, and then the King of Kings or World Emperor. Just as David was king over Y'hudah (Judah) for 7.5 years first before the rest of Isra'el anointed him, so in like manner Yeshua` was to be King over Y'hudah first before He, too, would become King of Isra'el and then King of Kings.

That Davidic covenant was put in effect the minute that Yeshua` began His offer of the Kingdom signaled by the declaration of God that Yeshua` was His Son and Yeshua` was anointed with the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) at His baptism, and you're right about it only lasting for 3.5 years ... so far. It was only broken temporarily when the offer of the Kingdom to the Jews of Yeshua`s first advent was rescinded and Yeshua` left them "desolate," and that offer of the Kingdom given to a future generation.

When Yeshua` pronounced them "desolate," that very moment a 40-year time of testing began. They were given a space to repent, led by the Apostles and Paul to the Jews both at home and abroad, and it was during that 40-year time of testing that the Goyim (Gentiles) were included with Jewish and Isra'eli believers. However, the Jews failed their test, sealing the fate of the Temple and Y'hudah and Isra'el as a nation in 70 A.D. This was not a permanent condition; it would only be temporary. However, Yeshua` was clear that the blinding in part of Isra'el would only last until they were able to say, "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHWH" - "We welcome you, Comer in the authority of YaHuWH." They have yet to say those words, and unfortunately, their condition has lasted almost 2000 years now.

What they have suffered for their rejection of the Messiah of God - God's Choice for a King - they have brought on themselves and THIS suffering is the "tribulation," the "pressure" under which they have suffered these 2000 years. In Roman persecutions, in Byzantine oppression, in Crusades, in Inquisitions, in Pogroms, in exiles, in being driven from one home to the next, from one country to the next, in the Holocaust, in the homelessness before the nation Isra'el was re-founded, and even in the constant threats of Arabs within (Palestinians) and Arabs without (neighboring countries), they have suffered down through the centuries for their own choice.

Thoughout this suffering, they were given a redeeming promise: "And except those days (of suffering) be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's (the chosen seed's) sake, those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:22). Out of all the time that they have rebelled and suffered, there have been reprieves - periods in which they were given temporary relief from the pressure and relative peace. If the pressure had not been relaxed on occasion, an unrelenting bombardment would have crippled the Jews beyond recovery.

To understand Gavri'el's prophecy given to Dani'el, one must look carefully at its words in the Hebrew text of Dani'el 9:24-27:

Daniel 9:24-27 (Hebrew transliteration)
24 Shawvoo‘im shiv‘im nechtak ‘al-‘am’kaw v’‘al-‘iyr qawdshekaw l’khale’ hapesha‘ uwlhawteim chataw’t uwlkhapeir ‘awon uwlhawvi’ tzedeq ‘olawmiym v’lachtom chawzown v’nawvi’ v’limshoach qodesh qawdawshiym:
25 v’teida‘ v’taskeil min-motzaw’ dawvawr l’hawshiyv v’livnowt Y’rushawlayim ‘ad-Mawshiyach nawgiyd shawvoo‘iym shiv‘awh v’shawvoo’iym shishiym uwshnayim tawshuwv v’nivntawh r’chowv v’chawruwtz uwvtzowq haw‘itiym:
26 v’’ach’reiy hashawvoo‘iym shishiym uwshnayim yikawreit Mawshiyach v’’eiyn low v’haw‘iyr v’haqodesh yash’chiyt ‘am nawgiyd habaw’ v’qitzow vashetef v’‘ad qitz milchawmawh necheretzet shomeimowt:
27 v’higbiyr b’riyt lawrabiym shawvuwa‘ ’echawd vachatziy hashawvuwa‘ yashbiyt zevach uwminchawh v’‘al k’naf shiquwtziym m’shomeim v’‘al-kawlawh v’necherawtzawh titakh ‘al-shomeim:

24 [sevened times] [seventy] [was decided] [upon—your people] [and upon—city] [your holy] [to prohibit; to restrict] [the revolt] [and to close up; to seal] [offenses][and to cancel; to cover] [moral perversity] [and to come; to go] [equity; righteousness] [times concealed; vanishing points] [and to close up; to seal] [dream; revelation; vision] [and prophet; prophecy] [and to rub (with oil)] [holy] [of holies]:
25 [and know] [and be intelligent; teach] [out of; from—egress; source; dawn] [word] [to the retreat; return; turning back] [and to build] [Yerushalayim; Jerusalem] [during; while; until; as far as—Messiah; Anointed; Rubbed; Selected] [commander] [sevens] [seven] [and sevens] [sixty] [and two] [to retreat; to return; to turn back] [and shall be built] [area; avenue] [and moat] [and in distressful] [the times]:
26 [and after] [the sevens] [sixty] [and two] [shall be cut off; destroyed] [Messiah; Anointed; Rubbed; Selected] [and not exist] [for himself] [and the holy] [shall decay] [people] [commander] [that shall come] [and end of; after; chop off] [with deluge] [and during; while; until; as far as] [end of; after; chop off] [battle; war] [are pointed sharply; are wounded; are decided] [devastations]:
27 [and he shall act insolently; prevail; be strong; make strong] [in cutting; compact; agreement; covenant] [with abundants] [seven] [one] [and in half; middle] [the seven] [he shall force to desist; to rest; to repose] [flesh; sacrifice] [and bestow a donation] [and during; while; until; as far as] [an edge; a wing] [disgusting idols] [he shall force to stupefy; to devastate] [and during; while; until; as far as] [completion; destruction] [and that pointed sharply; wounded; decided] [shall flow forth; liquefy] [during; while; until; as far as—stunned; devastated; stupefied]:

Dan 9:24-27
24 Seventy sevens [of years] are decreed upon your people and upon your holy city to restrict the revolt and to close up offenses and to cancel moral perversity and to bring righteousness for times concealed beyond the vanishing point of time and to close up vision and prophecy and to rub down the holy of holies with oil:
25 So, know and understand well enough to teach (that) from the dawn of the word to return and to build Yerushalayim until an anointed commander, seven sevens, and sixty-two sevens to return and the courtyard and the moat shall be built in the distressful times:
26 Then, after the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed shall be destroyed and have no place. The people of a leader yet to come will destroy the city and the Holy Place, but his end will come in a flood, and he [the Anointed] will decree several years of barrenness until the end of war.
27 He [the Anointed] will make a binding agreement strong with the leaders for one seven [of years], but halfway through the seven he will put a stop to the sacrifices and the grain offerings. Because of their despicable outrages [to him], he [the Anointed] shall force [others] to devastate them as was decided until the desolation is completely poured out.

A few points to consider: First, the "making of the covenant or binding agreement strong" is NOT the same as "making a covenant." It is ENFORCING an already existing covenant!

Second, the "leader yet to come" or the "prince that shall come" CANNOT be the antecedent of the word "he" in verse 27. The "leader yet to come" or the "prince that shall come" is part of a prepositional phrase in English (is the secondary noun of a noun construct state in Hebrew) and therefore cannot participate in the subject or predicate portions of the sentence. Thus, to find the antecedent of the "he" one must go back farther to the "Anointed" of the first part of verse 26.

Third, the phrase "v’‘al k’naf shiquwtziym m’shomeim" translates literally to "and-down-against a-spread-out-wing/an-extreme of-disgusting-things he-shall-stun-it." It neither has a mention of the Temple nor is it referring to a "wing" of the Temple.

There was INDEED "an extreme of disgusting things" that Yeshua` had to suppress, and they are found in the first part of Matthew 23! So, He stunned it! He devastated it! He "left it desolate" until everything decided against the nation was poured out upon it! It is still being poured out upon them today!

This is to what Yeshua` was referring in Matthew 24:15-21, Mark 13:14-19, and Luke 21:20-24. The Greek word for "abomination," "bdelugma," is the same word used in Luke 16:15:

Luke 16:14-15
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
KJV

Thus, there covetous derision of Yeshua` in their attempt to justify themselves before men IS the abomination to which Yeshua` was alluding in the Olivet Discourse!

 

[dragonfly]

Thanks to those who replied to me. Sorry I haven't been able to focus on a proper response. I will do as soon as I can.

 

[us2are1]

There is only a three and a half year tribulation ... Agreed.


The first half of Daniels final week was the Lord's ministry of confirming a covenant with many for half the week... Goes against the scripture.


26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


Point #1 - These two events are after the 69th week. One in 33 AD and one in 70 AD are marking distinct time periods so the reader will understand!. Then, meaning sometime after the previous events, he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. What marks the beginning of the last seven year time period is the confirming of the covenant for one seven.

I don't find this existing covenant The Lord confirmed for a seven year period, in scripture.

Would you give me the scriptures that outline this covenant that was confirmed by the Lord for a seven year period?


Point # 2 - The 70 week time frame is outlined in scripture into 3 distinct and separate time periods.

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

Seven weeks

Sixty two weeks

The 70th week of verse 27.

Although there is is scriptural evidence here that tells us the whole 70 week period is broken into 3 separate time periods with pauses, there is no scripture to validate a pause in the 70th week.

The 70th week has two half's, however the whole 7 year period runs as one time frame. That is why it's called the 70th week. If there was a pause it would be defined as 1/2 week and a 1/2 week

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

The one who confirms a covenant for 1 week is the one who brings an end to sacrifice and offering. Sacrifice and offering continued until 70 AD.

The Temple in Jerusalem is about to be rebuilt - http://www.templeinstitute.org

The existing covenant that will be confirmed for a seven year period is the Jerusalem Covenant, it will allow the Jewish priests to rebuild this temple - http://christianacti...g/covenant.html

This covenant states that Jerusalem belongs to the people of Israel. It was made in 1992 and signed by many. "Many" is a reference to the Seventy of Moses day.


Please consider this Temple and the Jerusalem Covenant at the links I provided.


Thanks, JLB

The Lord came and confirmed His Covenant with many for three years then He was cut off in the midst of the week. When He brings an end to sacrefice it is Gods sacrefice to man that is removed. Grace ends and you are either on one side or the other at the end of the two witnesses ministry. You have either been living by faith in God when there is no flesh left to rely on or you have Joind the devil and His messengers in eating the flesh of man to survive.

 

[dragonfly]

The Lord came and confirmed His Covenant with many for three years then He was cut off in the midst of the week. When He brings an end to sacrefice it is Gods sacrefice to man that is removed. Grace ends and you are either on one side or the other at the end of the two witnesses ministry. You have either been living by faith in God when there is no flesh left to rely on or you have Joind the devil and His messengers in eating the flesh of man to survive.

First of all, I like your last sentence a lot, and the first sentence is a new take for me, but I see what you mean.

'When He brings and end to sacrefice it is Gods sacrefice to man that is removed.' By this, do you mean that the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ was God keeping His part of both the Old and the New Covenant, and, that the sacrifices which continued until the Temple was destroyed have nothing to do with the ceasing of the oblation? (Daniel 9:27)

 

[JLB]

The Lord came and confirmed His Covenant with many for three years then He was cut off in the midst of the week. When He brings an end to sacrefice it is Gods sacrefice to man that is removed. Grace ends and you are either on one side or the other at the end of the two witnesses ministry. You have either been living by faith in God when there is no flesh left to rely on or you have Joind the devil and His messengers in eating the flesh of man to survive.

I guess you can say whatever you want. The problem is you just don't have any scripture to back up what you say.

Look for your self at what the scripture says - Daniel 9:25-26

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Point # 1 - Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; = 69 weeks. Fulfilled on Palm Sunday! Hosanna is a term that means "Save Now" which is a direct reference to The Messiah.( The multitudes recognized Him as messiah, The son of David, which being a son of a king is a prince, both king and Prince.

Furthermore, since it was this very day that the 69th week would be fulfilled as was prophesied in Daniel concerning Messiah The prince, Jesus said to the pharisee's -

But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out." Luke 19:40

Nothing was going to stop that prophecy from coming to pass. The 69th week was fulfilled on what has become known as "Palm Sunday", 5 days later Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself.



Point # 2 - after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

It was clearly after the sixty two weeks Messiah was cut off. But how long after. The answer FIVE DAYS!

The Lord Jesus was crucified on the Passover, just five days after the fulfillment of the 69th week.

Yet you say IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK, JESUS WAS CUT OFF. THAT WOULD PUT HIS CRUCIFIXION AT 3 1/2 YEARS AFTER PALM SUNDAY!

The scriptures teach us that Messiah was cut off as well as the Temple destroyed are together in this scripture to show us the time frame for these events was not during the 70th week.

Jesus was "cut off" in 33 AD and the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, making the language in verse 26 significant to understanding that the time frame of the 70th week had not yet begun, especially when you add the language of verse 27 -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

By using the word THEN, The Holy Spirit is showing us that the events of verse 27 come after the events of verse 26. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD yet clearly the 70 th week has not started.

Furthermore, Jesus Himself referred to The End of the age, and His coming as linked to this language in Daniel 9, - "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),


Conclusion - Jesus The Messiah was "cut off" 5 days after the 69 th week, not 3 1/2 years!


JLB

 

[dragonfly]

JLB snippet

The scriptures teach us that Messiah was cut off as well as the Temple destroyed

Some of my thoughts.'

Before He died, Jesus pronounced Israel's 'house' left to it 'desolate' - destroyed. The purpose of the Temple buildings was to house' the 'Holy of Holies' - which in Greek is the same word as the 'temple made without hands'.

I believe there was no Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies by then, but even if there was, when Jesus was crucified,and the veil round the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom, is this not the meaning of 'the destruction of Temple'. Having a Roman army come some years later and pull down the stones - the external housing - was merely indicative of the internal state of desolation which had begun before Jesus was even buried.

Personally, I find the preoccupation with trying to fit 70AD into a scheme, the main reason no scheme makes complete sense. Try to think of it from God's point of view: when the Temple veil was rent, the Holy of Holies could not be used any more on a Day of Atonement with any certain meaning for those attempting to keep that ritual.

Also, from God's point of view, Jesus died at the time of the evening sacrifice on that day, thus answering Abraham's prophetic declaration: Genesis 22:And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. This was the completion of that covenant.

Galatians 3:19 . Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

[us2are1]

First of all, I like your last sentence a lot, and the first sentence is a new take for me, but I see what you mean.

'When He brings and end to sacrefice it is Gods sacrefice to man that is removed.' By this, do you mean that the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ was God keeping His part of both the Old and the New Covenant, and, that the sacrifices which continued until the Temple was destroyed have nothing to do with the ceasing of the oblation? (Daniel 9:27)

The covenant That Christ confirmed was to become an imitator of God as dear children. To become Christ like by faith in God and God's promises. The covenant was not to "know about Christ" but to "follow Him". Grace gives everyone, who will follow Him, the time to achieve this through asking God for His Spirit and walking and talking with the Spirit that is God. Once a person has come into the fold, through the Spirit of God, they are blameless and grace is no longer needed. Grace got them there but is no longer needed.

I guess you can say whatever you want. The problem is you just don't have any scripture to back up what you say.

Look for your self at what the scripture says - Daniel 9:25-26

25 "Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. 26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Point # 1 - Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; = 69 weeks. Fulfilled on Palm Sunday! Hosanna is a term that means "Save Now" which is a direct reference to The Messiah.( The multitudes recognized Him as messiah, The son of David, which being a son of a king is a prince, both king and Prince.

Furthermore, since it was this very day that the 69th week would be fulfilled as was prophesied in Daniel concerning Messiah The prince, Jesus said to the pharisee's -

But He answered and said to them, "I tell you that if these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out." Luke 19:40

Nothing was going to stop that prophecy from coming to pass. The 69th week was fulfilled on what has become known as "Palm Sunday", 5 days later Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself.



Point # 2 - after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

It was clearly after the sixty two weeks Messiah was cut off. But how long after. The answer FIVE DAYS!

The Lord Jesus was crucified on the Passover, just five days after the fulfillment of the 69th week.

Yet you say IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK, JESUS WAS CUT OFF. THAT WOULD PUT HIS CRUCIFIXION AT 3 1/2 YEARS AFTER PALM SUNDAY!

The scriptures teach us that Messiah was cut off as well as the Temple destroyed are together in this scripture to show us the time frame for these events was not during the 70th week.

Jesus was "cut off" in 33 AD and the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, making the language in verse 26 significant to understanding that the time frame of the 70th week had not yet begun, especially when you add the language of verse 27 -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

By using the word THEN, The Holy Spirit is showing us that the events of verse 27 come after the events of verse 26. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD yet clearly the 70 th week has not started.

Furthermore, Jesus Himself referred to The End of the age, and His coming as linked to this language in Daniel 9, - "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),


Conclusion - Jesus The Messiah was "cut off" 5 days after the 69 th week, not 3 1/2 years!


JLB

That is not the conclusion. The conclusion is writen in history.

Christ was cut off 1040 days after the 69 weeks were completed.

 

[veteran]

However, you are QUITE wrong about the Davidic Covenant. That agreement between God and David and David's sons as kings is intact and is PRECISELY what Yeshua`s offer of the Kingdom to Isra'el was all about! The "confirmation" of that covenant was simply Yeshua`s offer as the Messiah of prophecy to Isra'el and specifically to the Jews in His time period. He was anointed to follow in His father David's footsteps as the King of the Jews, then the King of Isra'el, and then the King of Kings or World Emperor. Just as David was king over Y'hudah (Judah) for 7.5 years first before the rest of Isra'el anointed him, so in like manner Yeshua` was to be King over Y'hudah first before He, too, would become King of Isra'el and then King of Kings.

Christ Jesus came to offer those of Israel that remained in the holy land His Kingdom indeed, and He indeed would have sat upon David's throne (on earth), which is promised to Him by inheritance. Yet He and His Kingdom was rejected by the Jews. But the kingline of David's sons on earth did NOT end on earth with the Jew's rejection. Per Genesis 49:10 that kingline of the sons of David is shown still... existing in the care of Judah all the way to the time of Christ's return (second coming). That's what it means with the sceptre not departing from Judah until Shiloh (Christ) comes.

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto Him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

So the question is just which... part of Judah still is in possession of that royal sceptre on earth today? It's obvious it's no longer established in Jerusalem anymore, not since the days of king Zedekiah of Judah.

Because of that, the Davidic covenant which God made with David and his seed forever, has not ended today on earth either. And it certainly will not have ended when Christ returns to claim that part of His inheritance.

That Davidic covenant was put in effect the minute that Yeshua` began His offer of the Kingdom signaled by the declaration of God that Yeshua` was His Son and Yeshua` was anointed with the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) at His baptism, and you're right about it only lasting for 3.5 years ... so far. It was only broken temporarily when the offer of the Kingdom to the Jews of Yeshua`s first advent was rescinded and Yeshua` left them "desolate," and that offer of the Kingdom given to a future generation.

That is absolute gibberish, since that covenant BEGAN between God and David back in the prophet Samuel's days. You are following a false tradition about the Davidic covenant which does NOT align with God's Holy Writ. The Davidic Covenant DID NOT END WITH DAVID. It continued through David's son Solomon, then to his son Rehoboam, down to Zedekiah. Then Jeremiah the prophet (of Judah) had guardianship of Zedekiah's daughters ("the king's daughters"), and they with Jeremiah escaped captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar with being taken into Egypt. The kingline of David continued. And all that time from David to Zedekiah certainly does NOT... involve any such 3.5 years period!

So why are you trying to spread such a falsehood tradition about this matter? You can't be that deceived against this. The false doctrine of men you're following is so far away from Bible prophecy about the kingline of David that you ought to be wise enough to know it's nothing but a doctrine of man. When Jesus returns, that's when He inherits David's throne on earth according to the prophecy.

When Yeshua` pronounced them "desolate," that very moment a 40-year time of testing began. They were given a space to repent, led by the Apostles and Paul to the Jews both at home and abroad, and it was during that 40-year time of testing that the Goyim (Gentiles) were included with Jewish and Isra'eli believers. However, the Jews failed their test, sealing the fate of the Temple and Y'hudah and Isra'el as a nation in 70 A.D. This was not a permanent condition; it would only be temporary. However, Yeshua` was clear that the blinding in part of Isra'el would only last until they were able to say, "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHWH" - "We welcome you, Comer in the authority of YaHuWH." They have yet to say those words, and unfortunately, their condition has lasted almost 2000 years now.

When Christ pronounced the unbelieving Jew's house desolate in Jerusalem, that prophecy became in effect right then and there. At the end of Christ's Mission He then sent His disciples to the nations, like He showed per the parable at the end of Matt.21. In other words, the sentence was already pronounced, and especially sealed when they agreed with the false scribes and priests to crucify Christ. Any probationary period thus would be for the believers there given time to get out of Jerusalem, which is exactly what most of Christ's disciples did.

And that still does nothing to prove a 3.5 pact being made. So the rest of your post is just rambling, trying to search for support of that false doctrine you've latched onto.

 

[dragonfly]

Son of Man said

Grace gives everyone, who will follow Him, the time to achieve this through asking God for His Spirit and walking and talking with the Spirit that is God. Once a person has come into the fold, through the Spirit of God, they are blameless and grace is no longer needed. Grace got them there but is no longer needed.

I don't think so. Many of the New Testament references to 'grace' are in the present and present continuous tenses. Of course there are references in the past tense, too, to the moment in which a person first received grace from God.

Ephesians 3:7 '... I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power... 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God:...'

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If the Holy Spirit is the 'Spirit of grace', grace has not ceased to be necessary in the Christian life. It enables us to do the right thing.

Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and gives grace to the humble.

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder.... '



I think your definition of 'grace' is flawed.

Grace is continuously necessary to a Christian; like the air we breathe.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, veteran.

Christ Jesus came to offer those of Israel that remained in the holy land His Kingdom indeed, and He indeed would have sat upon David's throne (on earth), which is promised to Him by inheritance. Yet He and His Kingdom was rejected by the Jews. But the kingline of David's sons on earth did NOT end on earth with the Jew's rejection. Per Genesis 49:10 that kingline of the sons of David is shown still... existing in the care of Judah all the way to the time of Christ's return (second coming). That's what it means with the sceptre not departing from Judah until Shiloh (Christ) comes.

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto Him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

So the question is just which... part of Judah still is in possession of that royal sceptre on earth today? It's obvious it's no longer established in Jerusalem anymore, not since the days of king Zedekiah of Judah.

Because of that, the Davidic covenant which God made with David and his seed forever, has not ended today on earth either. And it certainly will not have ended when Christ returns to claim that part of His inheritance.

Oh, quit being a cantankerous, old ninny! It's hard to say ANYTHING good enough for YOU! I'm not saying that the Davidic covenant BEGAN with Yeshua`; I'm saying that it was STRENGTHENED (yigbar) with Him! IT'S WITH HIM TODAY!!! However, Yeshua` haMashiach is not physically on earth; so, His Kingdom is not physically on earth, either!
It was given to Yeshua` as the rightful heir of David by God; HE anointed Yeshua`! It is irrevocably given to the Messiah and is not on earth now because the Messiah to be King is not on earth now! The King Apparent and the Kingdom are INSEPARABLY LINKED ALREADY!

However, it was the DUTY of the elders of the tribe of Y'hudah to accept YHWH's Anointed as their King by anointing Him themselves, just as they did for David at Hevron! This they REFUSED to do! So, any chance they had to be a Kingdom with a YHWH-appointed King left them when the King left them! This is why they don't have a king today! They only have a "prime minister," a "chief steward," who is the absent King's servant while He is away!

That is absolute gibberish, since that covenant BEGAN between God and David back in the prophet Samuel's days. You are following a false tradition about the Davidic covenant which does NOT align with God's Holy Writ. The Davidic Covenant DID NOT END WITH DAVID. It continued through David's son Solomon, then to his son Rehoboam, down to Zedekiah. Then Jeremiah the prophet (of Judah) had guardianship of Zedekiah's daughters ("the king's daughters"), and they with Jeremiah escaped captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar with being taken into Egypt. The kingline of David continued. And all that time from David to Zedekiah certainly does NOT... involve any such 3.5 years period!

So why are you trying to spread such a falsehood tradition about this matter? You can't be that deceived against this. The false doctrine of men you're following is so far away from Bible prophecy about the kingline of David that you ought to be wise enough to know it's nothing but a doctrine of man. When Jesus returns, that's when He inherits David's throne on earth according to the prophecy.

I never said the Davidic covenant ended with David! Furthermore, it is still in effect as the Messiah has been chosen by God, His Father, even though the elders of Y'hudah have not relinquished the rule to Yeshua`. So, you are right that when Yeshua` returns, that He will inherit David's throne on earth, but He will only come back when they can say, "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHWH," finally willing to relinquish the rule to "haba' b'shem YHWH," "the Comer in the authority of YHWH."

And, why is it that when YOU don't understand something FROM THE SCRIPTURES, it's a "doctrine of man"?

When Christ pronounced the unbelieving Jew's house desolate in Jerusalem, that prophecy became in effect right then and there. At the end of Christ's Mission He then sent His disciples to the nations, like He showed per the parable at the end of Matt.21. In other words, the sentence was already pronounced, and especially sealed when they agreed with the false scribes and priests to crucify Christ. Any probationary period thus would be for the believers there given time to get out of Jerusalem, which is exactly what most of Christ's disciples did.

And that still does nothing to prove a 3.5 pact being made. So the rest of your post is just rambling, trying to search for support of that false doctrine you've latched onto.

It's not that difficult to understand that Yeshua` offered Y'hudah the Kingdom and they had the option to accept Him and it at any time that He was right there with them. They just chose to crucify Him instead! You're right that the prophecy started with the desolation of the Jews' household in Matthew 23:37-39; HOWEVER, as is consistent with God "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance," He always gives them time to repent. It's true that the believers would exit Jerusalem and Isra'el during that time as well, but the whole mission of the apostles, including Paul, to go "to the Jew first and also to the Greek" signifies that God was delaying their destruction to give them space to repent!

And, it's not a "3.5 (-year) pact"; it was a SEVEN-YEAR intensification of the Davidic Covenant, not made, confirmed or intensified by Yeshua`, but confirmed and intensified by THE FATHER TO His Son, Yeshua` the Messiah! The word "seven" in Hebrew (sheva` related to "Shabbat") comes from a verb root meaning "to complete!" This can be seen readily in Genesis 2:2 in the Hebrew. Therefore, the key is to look at the verses in the Gospels that use the Greek equivalent (teleoo) which also means "to end; to complete; to execute; to conclude; or to discharge."

You will find passages that may have been confusing to the run-of-the-mill Christians:

Luke 13:6-9
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
KJV

Luke 4:23-27
23 And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.
25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
KJV

and...

Matthew 12:14-21
14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
KJV

These are all verses that describe Yeshua`s "ministry" when He was offering the Kingdom to Y'hudah!

It's not truly difficult to understand, but it may be foreign to you and others who have never heard this before. Don't we learn things from the Scriptures all the time? (We should!) If so, then it should come as no surprise that you might hear something you've never heard before!

 

[dragonfly]

it was the DUTY of the elders of the tribe of Y'hudah to accept YHWH's Anointed as their King by anointing Him themselves, just as they did for David at Hevron! This they REFUSED to do!

Several things come to mind, such as it was not the right time for Him to ascend to the throne on earth (if it is to be on this earth. Methinks it is to be on the next earth.) and, they were looking for a political champion to rid them of the Romans. It was all carnal thinking. He did rid them of 'the Romans' - the usurper of their inheritance - spiritually speaking. But they didn't understand even when that happend. Even His disciples didn't get it, although of course, we know that many came to understand after the Holy Spirit had been sent.

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, dragonfly.

Several things come to mind, such as it was not the right time for Him to ascend to the throne on earth (if it is to be on this earth. Methinks it is to be on the next earth.) and, they were looking for a political champion to rid them of the Romans. It was all carnal thinking. He did rid them of 'the Romans' - the usurper of their inheritance - spiritually speaking. But they didn't understand even when that happend. Even His disciples didn't get it, although of course, we know that many came to understand after the Holy Spirit had been sent.

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

You're right that it was not the right time ... from GOD'S point of view; however, "hind sight is 20-20." From their perspective, God through Yeshua` His Anointed One WAS offering them the Kingdom! It was a LEGITIMATE OFFER! IF they could have accepted that offer, the Kingdom would have come right then! However, GOD knew that they would not accept that offer, and in HIS wisdom and foresight, used that knowledge to provide the Messiah's SACRIFICE FOR SIN, fulfilling prophecies that they didn't know how they could be fulfilled!

The problem in John 6:15 is not that they "would come and ... make Him a king," but that they would "take Him by force, to make Him a king!" This was one reason why I quoted Matthew 12:20 above. Do you understand what the verse means? It is simply saying that He would BIDE HIS TIME, letting all the chips fall where they may, and accomplish His mission to the letter! A "smoking flax" is a wick of a lamp that is going out because there's no more fuel in the lamp. He won't pinch it out to extinguish it, He would let it burn itself out on its own! A "bruised reed" is a bent-over reed like a cat-tail plant in the river. He won't snap it off; He would let it dry up and fall off on its own! Like those two examples, He would let all the events leading up to His total rejection and His crucifixion play out, and not try to hurry the ending at all! He could have called 12 legions of angels (72,000 messengers) who could have set Him free when He was on the cross, but THAT WAS NOT HIS FATHER'S PLAN!

The error of the disciples was not "carnal thinking." They KNEW that the prophecies about the Messiah Son of Joseph - the Suffering and Dying Messiah - had just been fulfilled, but they were just hoping that the prophecies about the Messiah Son of David - the Victorious and Reigning Messiah - would IMMEDIATELY also be fulfilled.

They weren't wrong to believe the prophecies about the Messiah Son of David literally coming true; they were only wrong about God's TIMING! It is the error of thinking that everything has to be fulfilled in some "spiritual" (allegorical) way that makes the error of thinking they were having a problem with "carnal thinking."

God is NOT in a habit of re-writing His Scriptures! Either the prophecies about the Messiah's second coming will happen literally, just as the prophecies about His Messiah's first coming were fulfilled literally, or we may as well just chuck the whole thing and believe in some other Scriptures, because God would be a liar!

According to the prophecies, Yeshua` must reign first over the Jews, then over all Isra'el, then over the world on THIS earth BEFORE the earth is re-made. "He must reign until His enemies become His footstool!"

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Matthew 22:41-46
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
KJV

Mark 12:35-37
35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
KJV

Luke 20:41-44
41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
KJV

Acts 2:32-36
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
KJV

Hebrews 10:12-13
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
KJV

ALL of these passages expect a LITERAL fulfillment of this prophecy in the FUTURE, not some nebulous, figurative, or surreptitious fulfillment in the now! He SHALL reign! He WILL reign! He, the Messiah Yeshua`, MUST reign in the (hopefully, near) future DURING the Millennium literally to put down His enemies and subdue them, preparing this earth, for His Father God's reign AFTER the Millennium! It is AFTER the Millennium that the Great White Throne Judgment happens and THAT is the time that Death is finally defeated and thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur as His LAST enemy!

I hope this makes sense to you.