Secure Eternal Salvation

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BreadOfLife

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Pure arrogance.
You're not as great as you think you are.

The Catholic church was the first official denominational deviation from the truth.

I'm confident the Catholic denominations all think they have been led by the Holy Spirit, too.
If teaching is "arrogant" - then the Apostlkes and every single teacher that followed is arrogant.
1 Cor. 12:38
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third
TEACHERS, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.


Secondlt - your idiotic and historically-bankrupt claim that the Cathoolic Church was the "first official denominational deviation from the truth" needs some historical support.
Ummmmmm, exactly WHEN did this happen?? Your fellow igenorant anti-Catholic @TExASBOW claims it was around 400AD.

Finally, as to your continued ignorance regarding the many dissident groups who include the word "Catholic" in their name - it reminds me of the proverbial string man with his hand on the head of the puny weeakling who is throwing blind punches into the air . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You're the one who isn't paying attention.
A man is indeed justified by works. That's what James says.
The problem is Catholics think that means a man is MADE righteous by works. Even though right from the context of his discourse we can see he's talking about being SHOWN to be righteous by what you do, not MADE righteous by what you do. They either ignore, or don't know the fact that 'justified' has more than one definition (justify), and that context shows us James is using one definition of the word and Paul is using another.
What a moronic understanding of what James wrote.
Pay attention:

James sais that works do not "show evidence" of faith.
He wrote that works COMPLETE a man's faith inwhich he is justified (James 2:22).

That means that works are a MAIN ingredient of faith and not just a byproduct or an evidence OF it.
Learn to oread Scripture in its proper CONTEXT, son.
 

Ferris Bueller

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James sais that works do not "show evidence" of faith.
He says it right here:

"I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
This is how we know what definition of 'justified' James is talking about in his discourse. Paul is talking about another definition of 'justified' in his discourse. That's why they seem contradictory. The Catholics try to remove that contradiction by redefining 'faith' instead of doing what they're supposed to be doing and looking at the different usages of 'justified' that Paul and James are using. The result of that misguided attempt to resolve the apparent contradiction between James and Paul is the Catholics have ended up with the very works gospel condemned in scripture.
 

Ferris Bueller

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He wrote that works COMPLETE a man's faith inwhich he is justified (James 2:22).
Yes, works complete, or fill up, faith. The error of the Catholics is they think that means the works themselves make you righteous. No, the believing all by itself does that. Just as it did for our example of justification by faith without works, Abraham. Abraham did no works to be declared righteous in Genesis 15:6. His believing did that all by itself. Years later, the works he did as a result of his believing showed him to have that faith/righteousness. And so he was justified that way, too. His faith made him righteous. His works showed him to be righteous. Justification means, both, to be made righteous, and to be shown to be righteous. Context shows what definition an author is referring to.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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If teaching is "arrogant" - then the Apostlkes and every single teacher that followed is arrogant.
1 Cor. 12:38
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third
TEACHERS, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.
Learn from this...

"Let another praise you, and not your own mouth" Proverbs 27:2

If you need to tell people you're a teacher and that you're educating them, you're probably not a teacher. The gifts of the Spirit are evident to the person who benefits from them and do not need you to tell them that you have it. Remember that the next time you feel compelled to condescend to someone about how you're 'educating' them.
 

BreadOfLife

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This is why no one can talk to you. We are not talking about those verses in James. We are talking about James comment of faith and wors. vs Paul who said faith apart from works (faith alone)
And there’s ANOTHER lie.

Paul never talked about “faith alone. In fact – YOUR Protestant Father, Martin Luther had to ADD the word “alone” to his German translation Rom. 3:28 because it was NOT there in the original verse.

The works that Paul wrote about were the works of the LAW and of self-righteousness.
He was NOT talking about the works that James was talking about – the works that God Himself prepared for us in advance to do as Christians as PART of our faith (Eph. 2:10).

Therefore, I can learn from BOTH Paul AND James on the same subject.
Your church is ALL about works. Works save you, they keep you saved, and if you do not do them, You lose salvation.

Where do I start?

Baptism, Eucharist, penance. Are you seriously going to say if you do not do these you can be saved?
Now – unless you are willing and able to show me this teaching from the Catechism – we’ll just consider this yet another LIE of yours. Cracks me up how ALL of you dishonest anti-Catholics lie with impunity about what the Church teaches – yet you can never seem to prove it from the Church’s official teachings.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that we are saved BY works – but that works are an essential ingredient of faith. Not sure why I have to keep repeating that to “seemingly” intelligent people.

Oh, by the way – the BIBLE tells us that you must be Baptized in order to be saved:

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be SAVED;

Acts 2:37-38
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and to the other apostles, "Brothers, what should we do?" Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 Pet. 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now SAVES you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

lol.. Your stuck on History.

The jews made the same mistake. And look where it took them? They crucified Christ with all there history. They would have called Jesus a protestant.
You can have your history..
the word of God is able to make a man complete.
That's all we need to know.
The history that I am showing you is YOUR Protestant history.
We’re NOT the ones who rebelled against the Church in the 16th century – YOUR Protestant Fathers did.

Now – YOU and the rest adhere to their groundwork if unbiblical doctrines like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide – and their edited version of Scripture, having REMOVED 7 Books from the OT. Now, you all continue to splinter into divided factions whenever somebody decides that they don’t like a certain interpretation – so they splinter off into their own to the tune of tens of thousands that exist today.

- Some believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
- Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
- Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
- Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
- Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
- Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
- Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
- Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
- Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
- Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
- Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the confusion goes on.

That’s their legacy and YOURS not ours . . .[/QUOTE]
 

BreadOfLife

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Learn from this...

"Let another praise you, and not your own mouth" Proverbs 27:2

If you need to tell people you're a teacher and you're educating them, you're probably not a teacher. The gifts of the Spirit are evident to the person who benefits from them and do not need you to tell them that you have it. Remember that the next time you feel compelled to condescend to someone about how you're 'educating' them.
So, saying that you taught a person something is "praising" oneself??

"I taught my dauther to show mercy for the poor."
Is that "self praise" or a fact??

Your sense of mooraluty is almost as warped as your understanding of Scripture . . .
 

Ferris Bueller

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Ummmmmm, exactly WHEN did this happen?? Your fellow...anti-Catholic @TExASBOW claims it was around 400AD.
I agree with him.
The creation of the official Catholic church seems to be the end of the reliable, centralized, Spirit-led organization of godly leaders that existed during the time of the Apostles.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Yes, works complete, or fill up, faith. The error of the Catholics is they think that means the works themselves make you righteous. No, the believing all by itself does that. Just as it did for our example of justification by faith without works, Abraham. Abraham did no works to be declared righteous in Genesis 15:6. His believing did that all by itself. Years later, the works he did as a result of his believing showed him to have that faith/righteousness. And so he was justified that way, too. His faith made him righteous. His works showed him to be righteous. Justification means, both, to be made righteous, and to be shown to be righteous. Context shows what definition an author is referring to.
So, we'll just add that to your ever-growing list if idiotic anti-Cathollic lies.

Show me from the Catechism wher it says we are made righteous SOLELY by what we DO.
If you can't to that - then just admit that you liud.
 

BreadOfLife

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I agree with him.
The creation of the official Catholic church seems to be the end of the reliable, centralized, Spirit-led organization of godly leaders that existed during the time of the Apostles.
Sooooo, WHEN did this happen?

On other words - WHEN did Jesus's promise that His Church would NEVER succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18) become a lie?
Just give me a ballpark figure . . .
 

Ferris Bueller

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So, saying that you taught a person something is "praising" oneself??
The condescending manner you use is. I've told you at least once that you need to come down off your high horse. You're really not as great as you think you are. I sense no fruit of the Spirit in your demeanor. I picture you as a frowning, wrinkly faced, bitter old man. Oh, you're probably warm and smiley and cheery as you greet new comers at the door, but as soon you find out they don't agree with your doctrine your countenance changes to who and what you really are. I think I've discerned that pretty accurately. You need to eat the real bread from life, because I don't see in how you act that you've eaten of it. If you had you'd be a kinder person. It's that faith/works cause and effect thing that you reject.
 

Ferris Bueller

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So, we'll just add that to your ever-growing list if idiotic anti-Cathollic lies.

Show me from the Catechism wher it says we are made righteous SOLELY by what we DO.
If you can't to that - then just admit that you liud.
I never said it was solely by what you do.
I understand your 'faith and works make you righteous (because works are faith)' argument.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Works are a main ingredient of saving faith. What you're not grasping is the works aren't what make you righteous.
That's NOT what the Bible says - in CONTEXT . . .

James 2:21, 25-26

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
And in the same way was not also aRahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Sooooo, WHEN did this happen?

On other words - WHEN did Jesus's promise that His Church would NEVER succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18) become a lie?
Just give me a ballpark figure . . .
The church didn't succumb to darkness. Your man made organization did.
The church is every believer in the blood of Christ. Not even the Catholics can destroy the real church. We've survived despite being dispersed to the four corners of the world and interspersed among all the man made attempts to codify their particular doctrinal beliefs. You won't get this because you are indoctrinated to think that the definition of 'church' is a religious organization. Indoctrinations are very stubborn and don't come out of a person easily. I'm not here for your sake. IMO, I don't believe you'll ever see the truth. I'm here for the sake of the humble who are reading along with our talk and aren't afraid to think and discern spiritual matters apart from a bully pulpit of so-called priests who threaten you with eternal damnation for not submitting to them. Paul granted room for freedom of conscience and differing opinions. The Catholic church does not and you know this.
 

BreadOfLife

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The condescending manner you use is. I've told you at least once that you need to come down off your high horse. You're really not as great as you think you are. I sense no fruit of the Spirit in your demeanor. I picture you as a frowning, wrinkly faced, bitter old man. Oh, you're probably warm and smiley and cheery as you greet new comers at the door, but as soon you find out they don't agree with your doctrine your countenance changes to who and what you really are. I think I've discerned that pretty accurately. You need to eat the real bread from life, because I don't see in how you act that you've eaten of it. If you had you'd be a kinder person. It's that faith/works cause and effect thing that you reject.
Once again -= you fail to grasp the difference of a fact and a boast.
Paul repeatedly tells his readers that he is educating them.

In 2 Thess. 2:15 - he tells them to "hold fast" to the traditioons and writings he and the others have tauth.
Ummmmm, what he boating or admonishing?

Oh, and I DO eat the "Real" Bread of Life every time I attend the holy sacrifice of the Mass (John 6:53-55) - just as Jesus commanded that we do (Matt. 26:26–28, Luke 22:19–20, Mark 14:22–24, 1 Cor. 11:23–25).

It's a shame that YOU reject Him in the Eucharist.
Good luck woth that . . .


.
 

BreadOfLife

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The church didn't succumb to darkness. Your man made organization did.
The church is every believer in the blood of Christ. Not even the Catholics can destroy the real church. We've survived despite being dispersed to the four corners of the world and interspersed among all the man made attempts to codify their particular doctrinal beliefs. You won't get this because you are indoctrinated to think that the definition of 'church' is a religious organization. Indoctrinations are very stubborn and don't come out of a person easily. I'm not here for your sake. IMO, I don't believe you'll ever see the truth. I'm here for the sake of the humble who are reading along with our talk and aren't afraid to think and discern spiritual matters apart from a bully pulpit of so-called priests who threaten you with eternal damnation for not submitting to them. Paul granted room for freedom of conscience and differing opinions. The Catholic church does not and you know this.
Interesting.
Historically-bankriupt - but interesting, nonetheless.

Soooo, if the Catholic Church was the ONLY representation of Christianity in the 5th century - ummmmm, WHO was this "ther" group that sprung from it when the Church went to hell?

Historical documentation, please . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Stooping pretty low there for a defense, lol.
You don't realize it but when you do stuff like this it confirms the estimation I have about you as I shared a couple of posts back.
Hey - if you want to retract what you said in post #1093 when you agreed aith the Catholic position - be my guest . . .