Secure Eternal Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

No, simply not true.

The Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught a doctrine of salvation by works…that we can “work” our way into Heaven. Additionally, nowhere in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “faith alone” appears is in James 2:24, where it says that we are not justified (or saved) by faith alone. The Bible says very clearly that we are not saved by faith alone.Works do have something to do with our salvation. Numerous passages in the New Testament that I know of about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone. We see this in Romans 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Peter 1, Revelation 20 and 22, 2 Corinthians 5, and many, many more verses. If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Corinthians 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace. Protestants believe that, too. However, many Protestants believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of faith and works is necessary…or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love…” Faith working through love…just as the Church teaches.

I look forward to your retraction.....

Sorry maam.

Anyone who teaches that something must be done in order to be saved, maintain salvation, or keep salvation

Teaches salvation by works.

Other than the jews. The Roman Catholic Church has the most works required for eternal salvation.

 

[Marymog]

The Hersey and false teachings from the Roman Catholic Church were in their infant stage in 110 AD. It was later that the RCC fell from the truth. If you desire to look at historical facts concerning the behavior of the Catholic Church you will be disappointed. You and I both know that during the dark ages the RCC was persecuting Christians desperately trying to retain political power and their position of greed. Christians started escaping the strong arm of the RCC Church and the leadership did everything possible to destroy those in support of the reformation. I could fill this thread will numerous factual records of crimes committed by the "one true Church". Murder, thief, pedophiles, and more abuses than I have time to list. I really do not think you want to compare the Reformers with your Church's history.

you really don't even know Christian history...Do you?

Who taught you this stuff?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

he thinks there are two valid gospels Paul’s apart from works and James’s by faith and works

No

I believe what Jesus and paul said. He who believes is not condemned, shall not be condemned, and will never die and live forever.

James is not written to you all. You all do not teach licentiousness.

Your problem is legalism. You need to study paul

 

[Marymog]

Sorry maam.

Anyone who teaches that something must be done in order to be saved, maintain salvation, or keep salvation

Teaches salvation by works.

Other than the jews. The Roman Catholic Church has the most works required for eternal salvation.

WHY do you continue to lie about what The Church teaches? I could understand if you disagree with what The Church teaches but to lie about it is another thing.....

Show me your faith without works?

Patient Mary

 

[theefaith]

No

I believe what Jesus and paul said. He who believes is not condemned, shall not be condemned, and will never die and live forever.

James is not written to you all. You all do not teach licentiousness.

Your problem is legalism. You need to study paul

all scripture is inspired for all men
All All All!

Lk 2:10-11 All people

 

[theefaith]

Or maybe the book of James was only for people named James ???

see what I mean? Fundamentalists are goofy

 

[theefaith]

I’m done! Merry Christmas everyone!

Yes Christmas that too is catholic!

Christ’s Mass!

the fake / commercial Christmas is cheaper at Walmart and Amazon!

the real Christmas is free and can ONLY be found round yon virgin, Mother and Child!
Lk 1:28 the Lord is with Her!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Huh...James 2:24 says NOT by faith alone???

James 2:24 does in fact say a man is not justified by faith alone.
The problem is you think that can only mean a man is not made righteous by faith alone but is made righteous by works too. 'Justified' has more than one meaning. And from the context of James' discourse we can see that he's talking about being justified in regard to showing oneself to be righteous (James 2:18), not being made righteous as Paul is talking about in his discourse (Romans 3:22).

justify

A man is made righteous by faith without work. And so he is justified (made righteous) by faith without work.
A man is shown to be righteous by his work. And so he is justified (shown to be righteous) by what he does.
And so it is that a man is justified by, both, faith and works. Just as James says. So you can see, James 2:24 has nothing to do with works making a man righteous. Works show him to be righteous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

making faith alone an error!

Yes, faith alone AS JAMES MEANS THAT is indeed an error.
The problem is, you do not know what he means.
It does NOT mean "righteousness without works".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

all scripture is inspired for all men
All All All!

Lk 2:10-11 All people

Yep.

So why do you not believe scripture?

Did Jesus say some people get saved by faith in him, and others have to work to earn it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WHY do you continue to lie about what The Church teaches? I could understand if you disagree with what The Church teaches but to lie about it is another thing.....

Show me your faith without works?

Patient Mary

I am not lying

You get a job and work to earn a wage, If you stop working you risk losing that wage. If you don’t work. You will not have a job.

If your trying to earn salvation by works. And stop doing those works, You risk losing that salvation. If you stop doing those works. You will not have salvation.

Thats what you church in a nutshell teaches. Salvation by sacraments.

I know of no legalistic denomination who admits they teach works. That does not make what they claim true.

They can claim they are not trying to earn salvation till the day they die. As long as they claim they must do things to maintain or fail to lose salvation. they are working t earn salvation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Or maybe the book of James was only for people named James ???

see what I mean? Fundamentalists are goofy

so james wrote to himself? And in chapter 2 he spoke about himself??

What a joke man

James said those people CLAIMED TO HAVE FAITH.

He never said they HAD FAITH.

Those people HAD NO WORK. And their Faith was DEAD NON EXISTENT

Whats is amazing is you agree, he is teaching that if people do not have works, they do not have faith. Then when I say that is n ot directed to you. You act as if it does.

You teach salvation is by works, And you boast of your works. Hence JAMES IS NOT SPEAKING TO YOU.

Paul is who you need to be listening to. You no different than the jews and all their sacrificial works (sacraments) they wanted to add to grace to be saved.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes it does! James 2:24.
The problem is you keep confusing James' 'faith alone' message with Paul's 'righteousness apart from works' argument as if they are the same argument, lol. Which they are not!

It's time you actually READ the verses that you reference.

Not only does James 2:24 NOT support the false, ma-made invention of "Faith Alone" (Sola Fide) - it says the exact OPPOSITE:
James 2:24 (KJV)
Ye see that by works a man is justified, and NOT ONLY BY FAITH.

James 2:24 (ES)
You see that a person is justified by works and nNOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Pat attention next time . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your argument is as lame as insisting that because the word 'church' is in a lot of church's names that doesn't mean they have similar theology. That kind of obvious stupidity you're pushing doesn't need to addressed, does it? But if you think it does, I will address it.

I'm getting a kick out of this. You're really squirming after dishing out all the abuse to Protestants over what we can plainly see the Catholic church is guilty of, too. Now, which Catholic denomination do you belong to, lol?

On the contrary - I haven't "squirmed" over a single thing you've said.
It's YOU who has been caught in lie after lie and are now jsut making the same asinine claim about "atholic "denominations".

As I educated you earlier - the Catholic Church is not a "denomination."
It is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered - and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

Do your homewotk.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Noipe I did not say that,

I said you should listen to paul because he can help you. James can not. Because you do not have the issue that James was dealing with.

Nice attempt t slander there by only giving part of what I said with no contex
Well I guess I am anti alot of denomination then.

And the catholic churhc most definately teaches salvation by works. Where you agree or not does not matter. A rock is a rock.

Hmmmmm - more lies . . .

James said to pray for one another (v. 5:16).
James said to call for the Presbyters (prpriests) to pray over a sick or dying person (v. 5:24).
James wrote that a person is justified by their works - and NOT by faith alone (v. 2:10).
Soooooo, WHISH part of this "cannot" help me??

As for works - the Church doesn't teach that we are saved BY works - buyt that works are en essential element of faith.

Your a slave of your church.

I'm a slave of Jesus Christ - and He EQUATES his very SELF with His Church (Luke 10:16, Acts 9:4-5).
Thank you.

No I do not follow Luther. I have many doctrines on which he did not teach. And to be honest. It does not appear even he taught faith alone.

And it seems your anger against someone who finally stood up to your church because the church could no longer imprison or assassinate anyone who went against them is well noted.[/QUOTE]
You ABSOLUTELY follow Luther - and I gave you THREE glaring eexamples:
- Sola Fide
- Sola Scriptura
- The 39 Booj OT Canon

ALL THREE were invented by Martiin Luther and expounded upon by your othger Protestant Fathers.

 

[TEXBOW]

you really don't even know Christian history...Do you?

Who taught you this stuff?

Silly Mary of course I do. The RCC church is a sad story of heretics and false teachings starting around 400 AD and continues today. Its most proud moments are in the dark ages. They were in fact trying to keep the uninformed in darkness and without knowledge by doing everything they could to prevent the common folk from having access to the scriptures. The RCC church has a rap sheet longer than a roll of toilet paper. Crooked Popes, False Popes, Insane Popes, and supposable all infallible. There are so many false teachings in the CC that it's difficult to list them all.

There are evil, crooked, and false teachers that have been involved in every know denomination but the CC has been consistent with problems. The early church had them too. Simon Magus was one of the first. Some even think Simon Magus was part of the downfall of the church in Rome. I'm not sure of that myself.

Some of us come down directly and bluntly about our views concerning the doctrine of the CC not because we hate Catholics but because we pray and hope they will see the truth before it's too late. I feel the same way about JW, SDA, and Mormons.

 

[TEXBOW]

Galatians 6:9: "And let us not be weary in well-doing; for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I educated you earlier

Pure arrogance.
You're not as great as you think you are.

the Catholic Church is not a "denomination."
It is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered

The Catholic church was the first official denominational deviation from the truth.

disjointed sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

I'm confident the Catholic denominations all think they have been led by the Holy Spirit, too.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's time you actually READ the verses that you reference.

Not only does James 2:24 NOT support the false, ma-made invention of "Faith Alone" (Sola Fide) - it says the exact OPPOSITE:
James 2:24 (KJV)
Ye see that by works a man is justified, and NOT ONLY BY FAITH.

James 2:24 (ES)
You see that a person is justified by works and nNOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Pat attention next time . . .

You're the one who isn't paying attention.
A man is indeed justified by works. That's what James says.
The problem is Catholics think that means a man is MADE righteous by works. Even though right from the context of his discourse we can see he's talking about being SHOWN to be righteous by what you do, not MADE righteous by what you do. They either ignore, or don't know the fact that 'justified' has more than one definition (justify), and that context shows us James is using one definition of the word and Paul is using another.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hmmmmm - more lies . . .

James said to pray for one another (v. 5:16).
James said to call for the Presbyters (prpriests) to pray over a sick or dying person (v. 5:24).
James wrote that a person is justified by their works - and NOT by faith alone (v. 2:10).
Soooooo, WHISH part of this "cannot" help me??

This is why no one can talk to you. We are not talking about those verses in James. We are talking about James comment of faith and wors. vs Paul who said faith apart from works (faith alone)

As for works - the Church doesn't teach that we are saved BY works - buyt that works are en essential element of faith.

I'm a slave of Jesus Christ - and He EQUATES his very SELF with His Church (Luke 10:16, Acts 9:4-5).
Thank you.

Your church is ALL about works. Works save you, they keep you saved, and if you do not do them, You lose salvation.

Where do I start?

Baptism, Eucharist, penance. Are you seriously going to say if you do not do these you can be saved?

No I do not follow Luther. I have many doctrines on which he did not teach. And to be honest. It does not appear even he taught faith alone.

And it seems your anger against someone who finally stood up to your church because the church could no longer imprison or assassinate anyone who went against them is well noted.

You ABSOLUTELY follow Luther - and I gave you THREE glaring eexamples:
- Sola Fide
- Sola Scriptura
- The 39 Booj OT Canon

ALL THREE were invented by Martiin Luther and expounded upon by your othger Protestant Fathers.[/QUOTE]

lol.. Your stuck on History.

The jews made the same mistake. And look where it took them? They crucified Christ with all there history. They would have called Jesus a protestant.

You can have your history..

the word of God is able to make a man complete.

That's all we need to know.