Secure Eternal Salvation

[amigo de christo]

Thanks but we must be taught by Christ thru his holy church

Well over half the catholics follow pope francis . HECK yeah you all have divisions .
Look at the split alone over vactican two , look at the split over gay marriage .
While i know that is all evil , DONT pretend you dont have divisions .
ONLY the lambs follow JESUS

 

[Eternally Grateful]

here lets help explain this a bit more .
there simply is no man peroid , that can be justified by the law .
For all have sinned . ALL have .
IF i then try and justify myself by my acts , by the righteousness of the law , THEN by that same law i now stand
condemened . THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO BE JUSTIFIED , FAITH IN JESUS . FAITH IN JESUS . FAITH IN JESUS .
If our works are evil then our faith is dead .

The law also required perfection. Meaning no sin.

We can;t keep the law. So I guess we water down the law by saying its ok as long as we get baptized, take the eucharist and do penance??

I find it amazing in all legalistic gospels. no matter what church it is, They water down the law. and put themselves above it

 

[amigo de christo]

The law also required perfection. Meaning no sin.

We can;t keep the law. So I guess we water down the law by saying its ok as long as we get baptized, take the eucharist and do penance??

I find it amazing in all legalistic gospels. no matter what church it is, They water down the law. and put themselves above it

What does legalistic mean .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does legalistic mean .

to be legalistic means one has to fulfill a set of legal terms in order to be released from prison.
In the jewish case, It was follwoing the law in order to be saved
in our case. It would be following a set of rules whatever they may be, to be released from the penalty of sin (saved).

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Hersey and false teachings from the Roman Catholic Church were in their infant stage in 110 AD. It was later that the RCC fell from the truth.

Ummmm, speaking of "hearsay" . . .

You would also have to explainI why Jesus LIED when He guaranteed that His Church would NOT succumb darkness (Matt. 16:18).
Let me know when you're prepared to do that . . .

If you desire to look at historical facts concerning the behavior of the Catholic Church you will be disappointed. You and I both know that during the dark ages the RCC was persecuting Christians desperately trying to retain political power and their position of greed. Christians started escaping the strong arm of the RCC Church and the leadership did everything possible to destroy those in support of the reformation. I could fill this thread will numerous factual records of crimes committed by the "one true Church". Murder, thief, pedophiles, and more abuses than I have time to list. I really do not think you want to compare the Reformers with your Church's history.

There have been a lot of wicked and evil men within the confines of the Catholic Church - jusy as there have been a lot of wicked and evil men within the confines of the various Protestant sects - and atrocities were comitted on BOTH sides.
Foy you to imply that thius was solely a "Catholic problem" is not only woefully ignporant - but incredibly dishonest.

At any rate - much of the violence and injustice was carried out by STATE powers - anf NOT by Church Authority.
Anyway - thanks for veering off-topic in yet another unsuccessful anti-Catholic assault.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And of course, none of these break away Catholic churches claim to be the one true original Catholic church, right? Lol, this is priceless.

Your claim is as stupid and childish as claimimg that the "Grace Bible Church" of Santa Moniuca is the SAME as "Grace Brethren Church" in Denver just because they NOTH use the word "Grace" in their name.
Incidentally, I know of 2 local Protestant churches woith those names that are as doctrinally-different as night and day.

So, either you're just being silly - or you REALLY are that dense.
I fear it may be a little of BOTH . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your claim is as stupid and childish as claimimg that the "Grace Bible Church" of Santa Moniuca is the SAME as "Grace Brethren Church" in Denver just because they NOTH use the word "Grace" in their name.
Incidentally, I know of 2 local Protestant churches woith those names that are as doctrinally-different as night and day.

So, either you're just being silly - or you REALLY are that dense.
I fear it may be a little of BOTH . . .

Lol, you know better than that.
You're grasping...lol.
And I'm getting a kick out of it!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well I have done neither so. Instead you wish to falsly accuse me. I would back off now.

This, coming from -
-The SAMEperson who told me that I should listen to Paul and NOT to James.
-The SAME person who told me that I spend too much time defending Christ's Church instead of Christ;'s Word - when HE equates the two (Luke 10:16, Acts 9:4-5).
THAT'S perversion of Scripture.

- The SAMEperson person who told me that the Catholic Church does NOT preach the Word of God.
-The SAMEperson person who lied by stating that the Catholic Church teaches salvation BY oworks.
-The SAMEperson person who keeps telling me that I "Lisyen to men" - when ALLof your Protestant precepts olike Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide were invented by MEN a mere 500 years ago because they were protesting the Catholic Church.
I'd say that makes you an anti-Catholic . . .

If your church was built by Christ, it would teach what Christ did. And they would at least resemble the NT church as found in acts and the epistles.

I do not see that. in fact most churches I have been to and witness look nothing like the NT church. not only in appearance. but sadly. even many doctrines.

I do not follow Luther my friend, I follow what I see in the word. I trust no man, or any denomination.

The bible teaches faith alone. You do not like it. Thats no my fault.

Not of works lest anyone should boast

If it is grace, it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace

If abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about but no before God. for what does the word say, Abraham believed God and God credit him as righteous (faith alone). Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

not by works of righteousness (good works) which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us by the washing and renewal of the spirit

He who believes is not condemned , He who does not believe is condemned already

He who believes will never perish, but live forever

Now you can have a bible which contradicts. Or you can Take God at his word, I chose to take God at his word, no matter what any denomination says.

WRONG on ALL counts.

For dstarters - the Bible does NOT teach "faith alone" - unless that faith includes cooperating woth God's grace (Matt. 7:21, Matt. 25:31-42, Val. 5:6, 1 Cor. 13:1-13). In fact, BOTH Luther AND Calvin rejected the Epistle of James because of its emphasis on faith BY belief and works.
ALL of the verses you cited include cooperating with God's grace, in CONTEXT.

And yes, you DO follow Luther, who invented Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura. You ALSO follow his edited 39 Book Canon of the OT instead of the full 46 Book Canon.

That makes you a slave of MEN.
I am a slave of Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol, you know better than that.
You're grasping...lol.
And I'm getting a kick out of it!

Congratulations for yet another non-answer . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Congratulations for yet another non-answer . . .

Your argument is as lame as insisting that because the word 'church' is in a lot of church's names that doesn't mean they have similar theology. That kind of obvious stupidity you're pushing doesn't need to addressed, does it? But if you think it does, I will address it.

I'm getting a kick out of this. You're really squirming after dishing out all the abuse to Protestants over what we can plainly see the Catholic church is guilty of, too. Now, which Catholic denomination do you belong to, lol?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For dstarters - the Bible does NOT teach "faith alone"

Yes it does! James 2:24.
The problem is you keep confusing James' 'faith alone' message with Paul's 'righteousness apart from works' argument as if they are the same argument, lol. Which they are not!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This, coming from -
-The SAMEperson who told me that I should listen to Paul and NOT to James.

Noipe I did not say that,

I said you should listen to paul because he can help you. James can not. Because you do not have the issue that James was dealing with.

Nice attempt to slander there by only giving part of what I said with no context.

-The SAME person who told me that I spend too much time defending Christ's Church instead of Christ;'s Word - when HE equates the two (Luke 10:16, Acts 9:4-5).
THAT'S perversion of Scripture.

- The SAMEperson person who told me that the Catholic Church does NOT preach the Word of God.
-The SAMEperson person who lied by stating that the Catholic Church teaches salvation BY oworks.
-The SAMEperson person who keeps telling me that I "Lisyen to men" - when ALLof your Protestant precepts olike Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide were invented by MEN a mere 500 years ago because they were protesting the Catholic Church.
I'd say that makes you an anti-Catholic . . .

Well I guess I am anti alot of denomination then.

And the catholic churhc most definately teaches salvation by works. Where you agree or not does not matter. A rock is a rock.

WRONG on ALL counts.

For dstarters - the Bible does NOT teach "faith alone" - unless that faith includes cooperating woth God's grace (Matt. 7:21, Matt. 25:31-42, Val. 5:6, 1 Cor. 13:1-13). In fact, BOTH Luther AND Calvin rejected the Epistle of James because of its emphasis on faith BY belief and works.
ALL of the verses you cited include cooperating with God's grace, in CONTEXT.

And yes, you DO follow Luther, who invented Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura. You ALSO follow his edited 39 Book Canon of the OT instead of the full 46 Book Canon.

That makes you a slave of MEN.
I am a slave of Christ.

Your a slave of your church.

No I do not follow Luther. I have many doctrines on which he did not teach. And to be honest. It does not appear even he taught faith alone.

And it seems your anger against someone who finally stood up to your church because the church could no longer imprison or assassinate anyone who went against them is well noted.

 

[theefaith]

Well the CC sure aint HIS holy church .
But the last time i checked , we need to simply hear and beleive in the gospel . Yall been brain washed bad my friend . real bad .

Lk 1:4 Matt 28:19 acts 8:

here lets help explain this a bit more .
there simply is no man peroid , that can be justified by the law .
For all have sinned . ALL have .
IF i then try and justify myself by my acts , by the righteousness of the law , THEN by that same law i now stand
condemened . THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO BE JUSTIFIED , FAITH IN JESUS . FAITH IN JESUS . FAITH IN JESUS .
If our works are evil then our faith is dead .

Justified by prayer and humility!
Nothing about faith or faith alone!

Lk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[theefaith]

See I took you’re advise and read the Bible!

we must be taught!
Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 acts 8:31

 

[theefaith]

Lk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

this he does for us as well thru the church
Matt 28:19-20

 

[Marymog]

And the catholic churhc most definately teaches salvation by works....

No, simply not true.

The Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught a doctrine of salvation by works…that we can “work” our way into Heaven. Additionally, nowhere in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “faith alone” appears is in James 2:24, where it says that we are not justified (or saved) by faith alone. The Bible says very clearly that we are not saved by faith alone.Works do have something to do with our salvation. Numerous passages in the New Testament that I know of about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone. We see this in Romans 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Peter 1, Revelation 20 and 22, 2 Corinthians 5, and many, many more verses. If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Corinthians 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around? As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace. Protestants believe that, too. However, many Protestants believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of faith and works is necessary…or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love…” Faith working through love…just as the Church teaches.

I look forward to your retraction.....

 

[Marymog]

Yes it does! James 2:24.
The problem is you keep confusing James' 'faith alone' message with Paul's 'righteousness apart from works' argument as if they are the same argument, lol. Which they are not!

Huh...James 2:24 says NOT by faith alone???

 

[theefaith]

1 cor 13:13 greatest is not faith or faith alone as it would be if salvation was by faith alone

1 cor 13:2 “all faith(including faith alone) without charity avails nothing!

NOTHING!

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

making faith alone an error!

 

[theefaith]

Not by works period.

If it is of by works. then we are trying to earn salvation, It is not a gift. And we will all fail.

Because you can nto do enough works to make up for one sin. let alone all the sins you have ever committed.

The penalty of sin is death, Not obaying the law or obaying the catholic sacraments.

The gift of God is eternal life.

1 cor 13:13 greatest is not faith or faith alone as it would be if salvation was by faith alone

1 cor 13:2 “all faith(including faith alone) without charity avails nothing!

NOTHING!

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.


Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

making faith alone an error!

 

[theefaith]

Huh...James 2:24 says NOT by faith alone???

he thinks there are two valid gospels Paul’s apart from works and James’s by faith and works