You can also think you are rich and in need of nothing when you are poor, blind and naked.
The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.
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You can also think you are rich and in need of nothing when you are poor, blind and naked.
Well, yes. I would have to say yes. After all, I read it when I was still quite carnal and running around murdering left and right. At that time, yes, there were some things that were exhortative to me but I could clearly see were not me.
There is a preponderous amount of evidence, in the entire bible, that righteousness and holiness are not the same thing. I don’t think giving you the evidence of that one more time will get us anywhere further. Do you?
I’m not quite sure why it is so important to you to try to get me to believe or admit I’m holy just because I read a letter or a verse regarding holiness. You just keep being holy and I will just keep learning righteousness and practicing the obedience of trust.
Yes, well it was difficult because you both typed new words AND quoted yourself. It didn’t work well hitting reply to that post. All your quoting of yourself disappeared.
Maybe not…but one of them at least is a verse my dear jousting partner.
Or at least a paraphrase or close approximation.
Naomi25
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Forgive me….but are you perhaps claiming that in our justification we leave all sin behind…rather than having a ‘state’ of righteousness attributed to us? That is what it seems you are suggesting, but I think I must check, because I am often way wrong!
I don't say they are the same, maybe you are confusing me with someone else?
I'm not trying to get you to believe or admit anything.
I think you are maybe adding things to what I'm saying that you've heard others add when they say similar things? I don't know.
Maybe time to rest?
Much love!
Yes, we are reborn without the corruption of sin. We are no longer the man who sinned and is condemned. We are a new person who is a spirit child of God.
However, we live in corrupt flesh, and it's like driving a car with 2 flat tires and a broken axel with a 4 cylinder engine that's missing on two cylinders.
In time we get better at driving it, and we can get some repairs made, to make it easier to drive. Renewing the mind.
Romans 6:9-12 KJV
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Dead indeed to sin - new properties of being.
Much love!
Maybe not…but one of them at least is a verse my dear jousting partner.
Or at least a paraphrase or close approximation.
Romans 6:11 KJV
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 1:3 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Colossians 2:6 KJV
6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Ephesians 4:24 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
2 Corinthians 5:17-18 KJV
17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
We are complete in Christ, so let us continue on to completion. That's paraphrasing also. I can post more Scriptures if you like.
We are recreated new people living in old bodies that act as though they have a mind of their own, as we are to learn what thoughts and actions come from it, and replace them with the thoughts and actions of the spirit, and this is called the renewing of the mind, and produces sanctification in our behavior and thought.
Much love!
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Philippians 3:6-11 KJV
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Righteousness by the law is trash to Paul. Manure. He didn't want to be found righteous under the Law. Why? That sort of righteousness would not produce this:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Much love!
6) Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Righteousness by the law is trash to Paul. Manure. He didn't want to be found righteous under the Law. Why? That sort of righteousness would not produce this:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Much love!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Classically, the theologians differentiate between forensic righteousness (God’s judgment of us, concurrent with declaring us His people), and how well we meet our relational obligations at any point during the growing-up process which is classically called sanctification. It is this latter righteousness that sister Stunned by Grace longs for, if I understood correctly.
Does the Bible tell marks that he is righteous and holy? Because it sure does sound (to me) like what I hear you say.
Once God has rendered us righteous in the inner man, we will necessarily hunger for righteousness in our thoughts and actions, in the outer man. Self-control from the Holy Spirit. If we don't it means we're not His.
That we have not yet been trained to do righteousness consistently does not mean God has not rendered us righteous by virtue of a new creation.
A child may be born to family wealth, but he does not begin to handle that wealth right away, though it be his. He is rich, but has not yet learned how to "be rich", and good parents will put his wealth in trust, to be given at the right time. But that he does not have the money in his pocket yet, it would be wrong to say he is not rich.
Much love!
Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Much love!
We were talking about whether I say righteousness and holiness were the same, and I do not say that.
Much love!
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