HERESY?

[Davy]

Good book just not the best for in depth study.

I disagree. It's your remarks that show amateurism in Bible study.

Jer 7:30-32
30 For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to pollute it.

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into My heart.

32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
KJV

Wow! The "children of Judah" did that back in Jeremiah the prophet's day? YES! They fell to paganism like the ten tribes did! Weren't no Romans around Jerusalem back then, you amateur!

THAT... is why Lord Jesus used 'geena' (pointing to Hebrew Hinnom) to refer to the "lake of fire" per The New Testament.

 

[Grailhunter]

I disagree. It's your remarks that show amateurism in Bible study.

Jer 7:30-32
30 For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to pollute it.

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into My heart.

32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
KJV

Wow! The "children of Judah" did that back in Jeremiah the prophet's day? YES! They fell to paganism like the ten tribes did! Weren't no Romans around Jerusalem back then, you amateur!

THAT... is why Lord Jesus used 'geena' (pointing to Hebrew Hinnom) to refer to the "lake of fire" per The New Testament.

There is very little of this that makes any sense.....
Gathering from your gibberish ....I will acknowledge that it was a trash dump and Christ used it as one, that is one of the analogies of an eternal fiery punishment.

 

[Davy]

There is very little of this that makes any sense.....
Gathering from your gibberish ....I will acknowledge that it was a trash dump and Christ used it as one, that is one of the analogies of an eternal fiery punishment.

Oh now... you well know why my Lord Jesus Christ used 'geena', because you no doubt know what Tophet and the valley of Hinnom in Old Testament times was about. You just tried to hide it with your Romans influence commentary.

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh now... you well know why my Lord Jesus Christ used 'geena', because you no doubt know what Tophet and the valley of Hinnom in Old Testament times was about. You just tried to hide it with your Romans influence commentary.

You do understand that Jerusalem and surrounding area was the same place in the Old and Testament. But since this trash dump burnt all the time, Christ used it for a analogy for eternal fiery torment. Christ was not referencing Pagan uses for the area....it was in relation to the conversations pertaining to the punishment of sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually, lying and murder are both mortal sins. I've never known a murderer. But I have been around pathological liars. Now I can't tolerate even someone not doing what they say they will do. I actually have PTSD against any lies, even white lies - changing their mind, but not telling me.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Agreed.

GG, I see you want to continue to interpret 1 John 1:8 as most do on this forum, but then you will never see how God really sees you - either a sinner, or a child of God. 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are NOT Christians in the slightest, and are written about because of the REASON John wrote this epistle in the first place - gnosticism, 1 John 4:1-3.

It's not how I interpret....
God sees us as His children. This does not mean that we never sin.
We are told not to grieve the Holy Spirit --- which means that we could.
Jesus told the Apostles they could forgive sin --- which means we could sin.

Let's look at your verse:
1 John 1:6, 8, 10
5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:7 addresses DEAR BROTHERS
1 John 2:12 addresses MY LITTLE CHILDREN

John is writing to Christians. I don't see anything in your verse reference to suggest differently, although I agree that he is writing due to incorrect teachings about Jesus not being God. Gnosticism had already invaded the early church before John died and he was concerned about this.

Verse 6 is telling Christians to be honest with themselves.
IF we say we have fellowship with Him (which only Christians do) yet walk in darkness, we are lying.

Verse 8 If we say we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves because we all have sin. Non-believers aren't even saved, this sentence would not have been necessary.

Verse 10 Ditto as above

(I'm happy to see someone - you - that knows why John was writing this letter; not everyone does).

1 John 1:7 is a Christian, and the bottom line is in Jesus we are sinless. But we must folllow Him, and when He said we have to forgive others to get our minor, little sins forgiven, then that is what we need to do. Just love people and do not hold anything against other Christians. Its not easy, and only comes with spiritual maturity, and why unforgiveness can really damage our souls causing a root of bitterness. But staying forgiving lets us remain sinless.

Also, for baby Christians, they are sinless as long as they live up to the light they have. Philippians 3:16.

1 John 1:7 is also for John's fellow Christians...why would he be addressing different persons from one sentence to the next?
You say IN JESUS we are sinless. Maybe you mean that if we are living IN JESUS then our sins are forgiven as if they were not committed?
I agree to the rest of what you've stated.

Remember:

Matthew 7:21-23.

Matthew 7:21-23 is the same as 1 John 3:4

The Lawless in Matthew 7:21... are persons that do evil deeds and live a lawless life and do not do the will of the Father. Same as 1 John 3:4
1 John 3:4 is speaking of persons that CONTINUE in sin.
1 John 3:4
Everyone who PRACTICES sin also practices lawlessness and sin is lawlessness.

 

[GodsGrace]

When you say "we are not holy as God is holy," then that means you don't believe we can be this side of death, again like most of the forum, even though Jesus and the apostle Peter said to be. 1 Peter 1:15-16.

And glorification is the name of the long process you've been thinking is sanctification, because that is what denominations tell us. Our nature which is born again NOW is divine, meaning becoming like Christ. 2 Peter 1:2-4. That is why it is glorification now, not sanctification. Sanctification is past and occurred at the same time as justification, and why it isn't even mentioned in Romans 8:29-30. When we are cleansed of all unrighteousness God sets us apart, sanctifies us, for His good works.

Holy means to be set aside for service to God.
Peter tells us in 1 Peter 1:14 that we are to live holy lives and to be obedient children.
We must be holy because God is holy.

God is holy has a different meaning, I think we already went through this...
God is holy because He is perfectly:
Moral, just, good, merciful.

We are to imitate Him by setting aside our life for service to Him.

 

[Davy]

You do understand that Jerusalem and surrounding area was the same place in the Old and Testament. But since this trash dump burnt all the time, Christ used it for a analogy for eternal fiery torment. Christ was not referencing Pagan uses for the area....it was in relation to the conversations pertaining to the punishment of sin.

I have not even a tiny doubt, that Lord Jesus was ALSO pointing to that Jeremiah 7 event when Judah FOLLOWING PAGANISM sacrificed their children in the fire at that valley of Hinnom. Maybe you can find a way to point that away... from what the Jews did back then by inserting Germans, in place of Judah in that Scripture? Would that work better for you?

 

[Aunty Jane]

So you believe that the Apostolic Fathers (men who were students of the Apostles) "were the very beginnings of the foretold apostasy"! That is very interesting. That means we can't trust any of their writings of which contain what the Apostles taught them. Soooooo who do we trust? Do you trust your own interpretations of Scripture?

The so called Apostolic Fathers gradually yielded to the false ideas that were creeping in, ever so gradually into Christian teaching, so as I said, the thin edge of the wedge was beginning.

Who can we trust? Jesus Christ who foretold that that “weeds” of false Christianity would be sown in the same field as the “wheat”....this parable itself is full of meaning if you examine it closely. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-42)

First of all these “weeds” were sown “while men were sleeping”....which could mean one of two things...either it was a reference to the death of the apostles who were keeping the coming apostasy at bay whilst the scriptures were being written....or it was whilst the Christians in the later centuries were ‘dozing off spiritually’ and allowing things to creep in without due vigilance.

What were these weeds? It is believed that it is a common, poisonous weed, well known in the Middle East that is a blight to farmers....it’s called “bearded darnell” and it is so like the wheat in its early growing stages that you really can’t tell them apart, hence Jesus recommendation to leave them in case of the wheat be taken along with the weeds. By the time the weeds were identifiable their root system was co tangled with the wheat, that there was great likelihood of this happening.

He told the reapers to wait until the harvest time when a clear separation would be possible because all would be harvested and the “weeds” disposed of before they could produce any more seed. Only then would the wheat be gathered into the farmers storehouse.

I don’t think it requires a great deal of effort to see what this parable was all about in the understanding of that Jewish audience who were fully aware of what was being foretold.

We are approaching that harvest time now......so who are we? “Wheat” or “weeds”....the reapers are under instruction and they know the difference.....even if we do not.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Can you be more specific? What happened in the 2nd century that The Church should not be proud of?

In view of Jesus parable, we can see that the weeds were planted a very long time ago, so that they have been growing along with the wheat all this time......but weeds as we know, grow so much more quickly than our valued plants, in fact if we don’t keep the weeds down, they will overtake our garden completely....with no one to weed the garden, and only to have all harvested together at the same time, the weeds will so outnumber the wheat that we can be assured of a big bonfire....

Didn’t Jesus himself say....”Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.”

It is the “few” who are on the road to life....not the “many”. So there is no safety in numbers.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don't like it either....

Yet you stay and defend this institution, knowing that God doesn’t approve of it either...?
Do you not have choices?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Who made you the arbiter of what a "false belief" is and a what a true belief is? Is it possible that your beliefs are false and that you are 'walking over a cliff'? Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Are you 'the church'?

I have studied long and deep, so I am sure of what I believe.....if a person has doubts, there is a reason....a doubter is easily swayed by any wind of teaching, but a true student of the Bible will keep digging until they put all those doubts to rest.

As James 1:5-8 says.....
“So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6 But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7 In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; 8 he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hold on. Hold on. :cool:

Before the Reformation when did Christians NOT have the Bible to "check for themselves" that what The Church was teaching did not belong to Christianity? The bible had been around for 1500 years sooooo your statement makes no sense to me.

The “church” made Bible reading impossible for the lay person, because only the priests were allowed access to God’s word. The church put to death anyone who possessed a Bible or who read it. Not all the ignorant masses were illiterate.
This is why it was a Catholic priest who took his own church to task over the abuses he saw by knowing what the Bible taught. Martin Luther did not want to cause a Reformation....all he wanted his church to do was cease doing what he knew was not scriptural and thoroughly corrupt. By keeping the people in ignorance, they could get away with just about anything because no one was game to speak up, knowing what would happen to them. Luther was a brave man. But they of course responded to him as all corrupt church leaders did in those days. Like Judaism before it, the church silenced all opposers including God’s prophets whom he sent to correct them. (Matthew 23:37) Luther was in all probability part of the wheat, but gagged and threatened by the weeds.

Also, are you saying that before the Reformation that Christians were sooooo stupid that they couldn't see your alleged link between paganism and what The Church practiced/taught etc? You think that pre-Reformation Christians didn't know Roman history and it wasn't until they got a bible in their hands to "check for themselves" that they made this connection? This makes no sense to me.

Stupid? No. Ignorant through no fault on their part? Yes. Scared to stand up and say what they thought? You bet! This is why the groundswell became so great with the Reformers now gaining ground and taking that power away from a thoroughly corrupt church. Religious freedom was something they had never had but desperately wanted.

How does reading the bible all of a sudden link in a persons mind that The Church was practicing paganism? Did they already know what Roman paganism practices looked like? If so then they should have noticed it BEFORE they got the bible since they were already practicing it....Your theory makes no sense!!!

It wasn’t until the Bible was in the hands of the people that they saw how far the church had strayed from the teachings of the Christ. The corruption was horrendous. If Catholicism is all you have ever assumed Christianity to be, then I can only advise to do do your own research....outside of your church’s excuses for their past and even present behavior.

They people came to realise that original Christianity had no Pope, (Pontifex Maximus (“Pontiff”) was a title for the pagan Roman High Priest). Peter would never have sat on a golden throne, living in a gold inlaid palace with servants, and full of priceless treasures, whilst his brothers were living in abject poverty, which is the situation today as most Catholic people live in third world conditions. Such a notion would have been far from his mind, having lived with Jesus as a constant companion for three and a half years and living what Christianity was all about.

There was no earthly priesthood with distinctive garb, no nuns, no grand cathedrals, no monasteries, no repeated rituals, no holy water or incense, no confessionals with an equally sinful human granting absolution.
The images they used in worship were forbidden by God’s law and devotion to Mary was merely a continuation of ancient mother goddess worship.....there was so much that was wrong with Catholicism that no wonder Protestantism overwhelmed the church, who then lost its power over the liberated people. 1500 years of abuse has taken a huge toll on human life, and the right for people to choose how to worship God, according to scripture, not according to the church. But the Reformation came with its own problems. Catholicism had left a sad legacy, which some repeated, proving again that Christ “never knew” them. (Matthew 7:21-23) But the “wheat” though terribly outnumbered were still there, fighting for the truth and often paying with their lives....put to death by those who claimed Jesus as their “Lord”.

 

[Grailhunter]

I have not even a tiny doubt, that Lord Jesus was ALSO pointing to that Jeremiah 7 event when Judah FOLLOWING PAGANISM sacrificed their children in the fire at that valley of Hinnom. Maybe you can find a way to point that away... from what the Jews did back then by inserting Germans, in place of Judah in that Scripture? Would that work better for you?

Germans?
Gehenna I know that the Jehovah's Witnesses latch onto this word and think they have caught a big fish, but it is a Red Herring. It is one of many burning trash dumps maintained by the Romans. The Romans understood you had to do something with trash and or bodies.....if not, bad things be happening to you. At the end of every battle or siege the bodies would be piled up and burned. So really all Christ was talking about is a burning trash dump. They were in the Jerusalem area so He is speaking about the trash dump there.

Christ references this flaming trash dump around eleven times.....they are not connected to any conversation regarding Pagan anything.....it is all about the punishment of sin.

Christ is talking to a very simple people and what He represents is a very spiritual religion. But He is not talking to anyone that is well versed on the spiritual. The Jews had limited understanding of the spiritual and the Romans had little understanding of the spiritual....Their gods lived up on Mt. Olympus etc. So He used the trash dump as an analogy of an eternal fiery punishment. A physical representation, a visual aid if you will.

He is not talking about the trash dump actually being the place of eternal fiery torment. He is not saying that sinners are going to be actually cast into the burning trash dump. He is not saying the souls of sinners will spend eternity in a burning trash dump. It is an analogy. This is not rocket science.

It is not a deep linguistical mystery. If they had an active volcano handy He might of used that. No Pagan references spoken or implied. The conversations are warning about the ramifications and punishment for sin.

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.

Matthew 5:30
If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.

Matthew 10:28
Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Matthew 18:9
If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire.

Matthew 23:15
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of Gehenna as yourselves.

Matthew 23:33
You serpents, you offspring of vipers, how will you escape the judgment of Gehenna?

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having your two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire,

Mark 9:45
If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame, rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched-

Mark 9:47
If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into the Kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire,

Luke 12:5
But I will warn you whom you should fear. Fear him, who after he has killed, has power to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

James 3:6
And the tongue is a fire. The world of iniquity among our members is the tongue, which defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature, and is set on fire by Gehenna.

 

[theefaith]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

anything contrary to the doctrine of the apostles of the apostles acts 2;42

heresy is treason against God who revealed the truth, and founded the church to teach all nations!

it is unlawful to reject any truth revealed by God or to accept any error taught by heretics!

 

[Wrangler]

The church put to death anyone who possessed a Bible or who read it.

Shocking values.

 

[Davy]

Germans?
Gehenna I know that the Jehovah's Witnesses latch onto this word and think they have caught a big fish, but it is a Red Herring. It is one of many burning trash dumps maintained by the Romans. The Romans understood you had to do something with trash and or bodies.....if not, bad things be happening to you. At the end of every battle or siege the bodies would be piled up and burned. So really all Christ was talking about is a burning trash dump. They were in the Jerusalem area so He is speaking about the trash dump there.

Christ references this flaming trash dump around eleven times.....they are not connected to any conversation regarding Pagan anything.....it is all about the punishment of sin.

Yeah Jesus is ALSO pointing to what Judah did in that valley of Hinnom per Jeremiah 7 and Jeremiah 19, sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech.

Jer 7:30-32
30 For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to pollute it.
31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into My heart.
32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
KJV

Isa 30:33
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
KJV

Maybe you'll even say stupid things like that Isaiah 30:33 verse isn't pointing to the future "lake of fire" event, or maybe you really do think God is Who sets those fires in that valley of Hinnom to burn garbage.

In 12 places in the New Testament Greek, the Greek word Jesus used to point to the future "lake of fire" is 'geena', which is from Hebrew 'Hinnom', about that valley and the history of its burning.



NT:1067
geena (gheh'-en-nah); of Hebrew origin [OT:1516 and OT:2011]; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:

KJV - hell.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

[Grailhunter]

Yeah Jesus is ALSO pointing to what Judah did in that valley of Hinnom per Jeremiah 7 and Jeremiah 19, sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech.

Jer 7:30-32
30 For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to pollute it.
31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into My heart.
32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
KJV

Isa 30:33
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
KJV

Maybe you'll even say stupid things like that Isaiah 30:33 verse isn't pointing to the future "lake of fire" event, or maybe you really do think God is Who sets those fires in that valley of Hinnom to burn garbage.

In 12 places in the New Testament Greek, the Greek word Jesus used to point to the future "lake of fire" is 'geena', which is from Hebrew 'Hinnom', about that valley and the history of its burning.



NT:1067
geena (gheh'-en-nah); of Hebrew origin [OT:1516 and OT:2011]; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:

KJV - hell.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Why would it be an issue if like you say---->Jesus is ALSO pointing to what Judah did in that valley of Hinnom per Jeremiah 7 and Jeremiah 19, sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech.??<----I am just asking for the scripture that would indicate that. The only discussions I see about this trash dump is about punishment for sin. Do you see any scriptures in the Gospels or Revelation about sacrificing children to Molech?

I found a scripture in Acts....Acts 7:43 but it has nothing to do with the trash dump.

And I assume you are trying to prove something about the KJV and Strong's and hell
I am guessing that you are pointing out that the trash dump is translated to hell in some Bibles?

 

[theefaith]

Shocking values.

you have no proof of this!

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

there is an encyclical of Gregory 16 against Bible societies because of the errors and heresy they promote

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 1:7 is also for John's fellow Christians...why would he be addressing different persons from one sentence to the next?
You say IN JESUS we are sinless. Maybe you mean that if we are living IN JESUS then our sins are forgiven as if they were not committed?
I agree to the rest of what you've stated.

Hi GG,

Most westerners with a Greek mindset like us, read 1 John 1, just as you do. But those who really study learn the "mindset" of the eastern apostle which can mean something quite different than the simple way a westerner grasps the words. 1 John 1 is TO Christians, warning them of the false teachers infiltrating the Church - the Gnostics. It is also to those Gnostics that are in John's congregation with their own twisted beliefs. Unfortunately, almost 2000 years later, those false doctrines have taken root in the Church, and has become the most popular in the Church.

The apostle John was using the eastern Semitic writing style of contrasts. It is light (of God) verses darkness (of sin). The Gnostics of verses 6, 8, and 10 taught that sins of the flesh were not sins. Thus they were fellowshipping with God but committing sins of the flesh and believing those sins didn't separate them from God; that they were not sins of the "spirit" so okay with God. Thus they said they didn't sin, even though they did, because they were without the Spirit of God in them, nor could they understand His Word. They were carnal.

Edit: But the bottom line is what you, yourself, practice. Do you commit willful sins, or does your conscience prevent you? There are those who believe as you do in interpreting these verses in 1 John, but do as John's first reason for writing is, 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. Why say that if all Christians still sin and impossible not to? But that is just the doctrine we are discussing. It is what we do in our own lives that truly matters. Therefore, if you follow your conscience and don't go against your conscience, and yet teach others your interpretation of 1 John 1, which is actually contradictory to how you conduct yourself, that is what is meant by conducting yourself in a worthy manner, but teaching a false doctrine. That is the true meaning of another misunderstood scripture by others who believe that 1 John 1:8 is a true Christian, 1 Corinthians 3:14 "If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." Meaning the false doctrine will be burned as untrue, but the righteous Christian will be saved according to his actual conduct.

 

[Enoch111]

It is also to those Gnostics that are in John's congregation with their own twisted beliefs.

This is simply Fake News from the Hyper Grace teachers. All the epistles of John are written to genuine Christians. And all Christians must examine themselves and deal with their present sins according to John. While he does warn Christians about Gnostic heresies, he is not addressing the Gnostics at all.