Secure Eternal Salvation

[bbyrd009]

Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.

Go, and do likewise seems to suggest otherwise imo

 

[BreadOfLife]

What is it about not getting the inheritance that you do not understand?

Read the ENTIRE chapter - NOT just a verse here and there.,
MOST of this chapter is about how God disciplines His children - NOT about how He condemns them.

YOU have one verse contradicting another verse from one Book to another.

Since you fancy yourself a "Lone Ranger Christian" and NOT part of a particular body - here is a little hermeneutical rule you should follow:
If ALL of Scripture does NOT harmonize in your eyes - they YOU are reading it wrong.
In other words - don't blame Scripture - blame your own interpretations of it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why in heaven and earth would being restored not be in regard to that which he has fallen away from?????

"and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance"​

It's so simple. It's staring you right in the face yet you insist on reaching for an illogical, out of context interpretation that defies the simple words of the passage itself.

Once again – because of your cherry-picking, you have perverted the Scriptures to your own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16).

If you actually believe that this verse means that you CANNOT be forgiven – then you have just called Jesus a ”Liar”, because He stated that the ONLY offense that would not be forgiven was final impenitence/blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:28-30).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who do you think you are??????
Seriously, man, come down off your high horse, lol.

As a Christian who is trying to help you from falling into this trap of cherry-picking that you keep throwing yourself into.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

what kind of believing y'all discussing there, Ferris? There's five diff kinds is why i ask

Faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin:

"God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood" Romans 3:25​

 

[bbyrd009]

Faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin:

"God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood" Romans 3:25​

ah ok ty

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Since you fancy yourself a "Lone Ranger Christian" and NOT part of a particular body

I belong to the body of Christ. The very body of Christ himself. The very same Spirit that is in Jesus is in me. I belong to his body.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you actually believe that this verse means that you CANNOT be forgiven – then you have just called Jesus a ”Liar”, because He stated that the ONLY offense that would not be forgiven was...blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:28-30).

Blasphemy of the Spirit is the sin the person in Hebrews 6:4-6 is committing!

This is a person who has had revelation knowledge of Christ and the gospel and experienced the powers of the Spirit and were born again but who then fell away into unbelief. Calling what they experienced and know to be true, false and turning away from it in willful unbelief. That's blasphemy of the Spirit. That is indeed the very sin that cannot be forgiven. Letting that person come back to repentance puts Christ to open shame. God won't allow it. That person is certainly free to go back to the law if they want to. There is nothing preventing them from doing that. God will let anyone do that if they want.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

MOST of this chapter is about how God disciplines His children - NOT about how He condemns them.

God never ever condemns his children.
He will condemn the person who is no longer his child because they have gone back to unbelief.

 

[bbyrd009]

I belong to the body of Christ. The very body of Christ himself. The very same Spirit that is in Jesus is in me. I belong to his body.

might wanna differentiate between pistis and belief then

 

[Ferris Bueller]

might wanna differentiate between pistis and belief then

What's the difference?

 

[bbyrd009]

What's the difference?

ha tbh ive been in about five threads on that and im still not sure lol

 

[Ferris Bueller]

ha tbh ive been in about five threads on that and im still not sure lol

There is no difference.
'Belief' is a noun. 'Faith' is a noun.
They're synonymous with each other.
'Believing' is a verb.
It is the action of having faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

QUOTE="Ferris Bueller, post: 1177144, member: 9156"]I belong to the body of Christ. The very body of Christ himself. The very same Spirit that is in Jesus is in me. I belong to his body.[/QUOTE]
Correction - if you are a baptized non-Catholic Christian, you are related to the Body of Christ but self-separated from it and in need of return.

Jesus built ONE visible Church (Matt. 5:14) and it's united as ONE as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
He didn't build t a splintered and disjointed gaggle of man-made sects and Lone Rangers who ALL believe in different thing and do not hold fast to the Traditions of the Apostles (2 Thess. 2:15).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Blasphemy of the Spirit is the sin the person in Hebrews 6:4-6 is committing!

This is a person who has had revelation knowledge of Christ and the gospel and experienced the powers of the Spirit and were born again but who then fell away into unbelief. Calling what they experienced and know to be true, false and turning away from it in willful unbelief. That's blasphemy of the Spirit. That is indeed the very sin that cannot be forgiven. Letting that person come back to repentance puts Christ to open shame. God won't allow it. That person is certainly free to go back to the law if they want to. There is nothing preventing them from doing that. God will let anyone do that if they want.

WRONG.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit spoken of in (Matt. 12:28-30) is about FINAL impenitence, in context.

YOUR unbiblical position renders Jesus a fool and a liar for teaching the Parable of the Prodigal Son and telling Peter that he must show limitless forgiveness as God does.

FINAL refusal to repent is the ONLY thing that cannot be forgiven because it us your LAST chance to heed the calling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

God never ever condemns his children.
He will condemn the person who is no longer his child because they have gone back to unbelief.

WRONG.
That apostate person has a chance to repent as long as there is life in them.

Jesus stated that the ONLY thing that would not be forgiven is FINAL impenitence – FINAL rejection of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:28-30). ALL sins can be forgiven during one's lifetime.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is no difference.
'Belief' is a noun. 'Faith' is a noun.
They're synonymous with each other.
'Believing' is a verb.
It is the action of having faith.

WRONG again.

As I have educated you several times now - the SAME Greek word is used for "Faith" and "Belief".
James explicitly point out that even the DEMONS "believe" (pist-yoo'-o/verb) in the truths about God and shudder (James 2:19). They have belief (pis'-tis/noun) - but they do NOT have faith (pis'-tis/noun).

It's the CONTEXT that differentiates the two meanings - and context is NOT your friend . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I belong to the body of Christ. The very body of Christ himself. The very same Spirit that is in Jesus is in me. I belong to his body.

Correction - if you are a baptized non-Catholic Christian, you are related to the Body of Christ but self-separated from it and in need of return.

Jesus built ONE visible Church (Matt. 5:14) and it's united as ONE as He and the Father are ONE (John 17:20-23).
He didn't build t a splintered and disjointed gaggle of man-made sects and Lone Rangers who ALL believe in different thing and do not hold fast to the Traditions of the Apostles (2 Thess. 2:15).

I already showed you the truth about this in the plain words of the Bible. Either you get it or you don’t.
The Catholic Church is not the body of Jesus Christ. That’s a joke.
Christ does not inhabit an organization. He inhabits individual believers spread out over the whole earth. The Spirit within each of us makes us one.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOUR unbiblical position renders Jesus a fool and a liar for teaching the Parable of the Prodigal Son

The Prodigal son represents Israelites as a whole, not the same person who once believed but now doesn’t believe who Christ saves again. The Jews who Christ retrieves are not the generations of Jews who fell away and are no longer alive. They are Jews living in the lostness they inherited from those who did fall away.

 

[bbyrd009]

There is no difference.
'Belief' is a noun. 'Faith' is a noun.
They're synonymous with each other.
'Believing' is a verb.
It is the action of having faith.

well, the Bible apparently disagrees? Does seem to be...a pretty nuanced thing though

near as i can figure, religiously speaking they are pretty equal, but practically speaking i have been (rather painfully) shown the difference, when i went looking. Anyway they do appear to share a synonym regardless, yes, but ill suggest that they are Scripturally different for an important reason, that most people never even attempt to discover i guess.

But have we completely conflated them now? ya, pretty much. Worth seeking out the five different kinds of belief though, and contrasting them with pistis. Id love to make some examples here, but they are not well received, ive tried; comes across as denigrating others' "faith" i guess