Secure Eternal Salvation

[BreadOfLife]

Surely, you're smart enough to know the only way we can all be in unity of doctrine is to be at the same stage of knowledge and growth.
Besides, I showed you the scriptures that show the true actual Apostolic church (which you think your church is) was not in unity of doctrine. But somehow your church is. Ooookay......

And sure, YOU'RE smart enough to realize by now that I'm not so stupid as to believe an idiotic and unbiblical statement like that.

Just because ALL Christians are not at the same point in their walk with the Lord does NOT mean that the same rules and beliefs don't apply to ALL of us.

Good grief - one bizarre perversion after another . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since you have no clue what I said, you try to say it another way.

Also, I don't care one whit about your Greek excellence.

After all, it has you bound up in false sacred traditions of old Roman Vesta, whom you wrongly call Mary.

They are really no different than jews.

The jews looked to their works of the law and thought it made them righteous. Only to be told that was wrong. Yet they still had faith in self and their organization not in God.

Their security is in their works. Not Christ and his promise.

Only God can help them really..

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just because ALL Christians are not at the same point in their walk with the Lord does NOT mean that the same rules and beliefs don't apply to ALL of us.

I did not know I said that, lol.

 

[TEXBOW]

If OSAS was in fact truth why was it necessary for Paul to rebuke and correct those Saints in the churches he planted? Why would Paul warn them of false prophets? Why would Paul warn them that certain behaviors would keep them out of the Kingdom? The argument will always be "well if one falls from grace and commits those sins he or she was never really saved, to begin with". Is this not the circular argument for the past 1500 years? A Bishop or Cardinal who was "faithful" to their calling for years molested a child, I suppose he was a fake from day one, or does the Catholic Church think those Bishops and Cardinals have eternal security? I think one can fall from grace. I do not see God forcing you to love him, can love be forced? I don't think so. Loving God is the most important requirement God places upon us. If love can be forced it is meaningless. NOW if a believer remains in the faith and walks in the Spirit, repentant and obedient he will never fall from grace. AND no I do not think anything other than faith brings salvation. Our salvation gives us the power to demote the flesh and promote the Spirit giving it authority over our lives. It brings a desire to be an overcomer, strengthen our personal relationship with God, witness, be obedient, love more abundantly, and seek the gifts of the Spirit. Our works are evidenced of our salvation not requirements for salvation. We are born again into the body of Christ, the one true Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did not know I said that, lol.

Then, I suggest that you THINK before you post next time . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your supposed exegesis, or whatever that was, doesn't even address the repentance—the change of mind about Christ—that a fallen person can't come back to. How is it that going back to the old covenant sacrifices makes it so it's impossible for a person to come back to a change of mind about Christ? The passage tells us (God doesn't allow it). You've ignored that and created an odd, misplaced doctrine that redefines 'repentance', and doesn't even have anything to do with the passage.

Once again - the CONTEXT of the book of Hebrews is that Christ is SUPRIOR to the Law because He is of the fulfillment of it. When a converted Jew goes BACK to the Law - after becoming born again (tasting the "heavenly gif") - they have nullified His sacrifice, making it necessary for Him to be crucified again.

Just because YOU are blind to the context doesn't mean that's it's not true.
It simply amplifies your ignorance . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When a converted Jew goes BACK to the Law - after becoming born again (tasting the "heavenly gif") - they have nullified His sacrifice, making it necessary for Him to be crucified again.

Yes. They have lost the application of Christ's sacrifice that they once had because they are in unbelief now.
The question is, why is it impossible for that person to repent again and come back?
The passage itself says because that puts Christ to open shame.
But you say it's not impossible to come back. Right?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes. They have lost the application of Christ's sacrifice that they once had because they are in unbelief now.
The question is, why is it impossible for that person to repent again and come back?
The passage itself says because that puts Christ to open shame.
But you say it's not impossible to come back. Right?

ALL sin can be forgiven as long as we are alive - even apostasy.
Jesus said that the ONLY sin that would NOT be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:31-32), which, in the context of when He said it means final impenitence.

Once again - you refuse to understand the CONTEXT of Heb. 6:4. The author is NOT saying that it is impossible to repent of sin.
He is saying that it is impossible for a BORN AGAIN person who has tasted the Heavenly gift to go back to the Law and trust that for his salvation. This would require that Jesus be crucified ALL over again.

If YOU are saying that you cannot be forgiven - except for the ONE exception that Jesus made in Matt. 12:31-32 - then YOU are preaching a FALSE Gospel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If OSAS was in fact truth why was it necessary for Paul to rebuke and correct those Saints in the churches he planted? Why would Paul warn them of false prophets? Why would Paul warn them that certain behaviors would keep them out of the Kingdom? The argument will always be "well if one falls from grace and commits those sins he or she was never really saved, to begin with". Is this not the circular argument for the past 1500 years? A Bishop or Cardinal who was "faithful" to their calling for years molested a child, I suppose he was a fake from day one, or does the Catholic Church think those Bishops and Cardinals have eternal security? I think one can fall from grace. I do not see God forcing you to love him, can love be forced? I don't think so. Loving God is the most important requirement God places upon us. If love can be forced it is meaningless. NOW if a believer remains in the faith and walks in the Spirit, repentant and obedient he will never fall from grace. AND no I do not think anything other than faith brings salvation. Our salvation gives us the power to demote the flesh and promote the Spirit giving it authority over our lives. It brings a desire to be an overcomer, strengthen our personal relationship with God, witness, be obedient, love more abundantly, and seek the gifts of the Spirit. Our works are evidenced of our salvation not requirements for salvation. We are born again into the body of Christ, the one true Church.

If OSAS is not true

Then why are we told we will NEVER DIE

Why are we told we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Why are we told we will BE RISEN

Why are we told we have been SEALED BY THE SPIRIT (3 times even)

Why are we told we have been born of incorruptible seed?

Why are we told as long as he lives, we will love?

What purpose does the cross bear? If the cross can not save someone eternally. And we need to earn salvation by wrks. Then why have the cross at all?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The author is NOT saying that it is impossible to repent of sin.

It says it's impossible to come back to repentance.

"4For it is impossible... 6...to renew them again unto repentance" Hebrews 6:6
​

It's impossible to renew the repentance, their change of mind, towards the gospel they once had.
That isn't allowed. It puts Christ to open shame. That's what the passage says.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

ALL sin can be forgiven as long as we are alive - even apostasy.

Yes. But only up to and until God turns you over to your apostasy.

God gave space and time for the Galatians to renew their repentance towards the gospel. We know that by the simple fact that Paul tried to win them back. But we also know that if they persisted in their rejection of the gospel they would eventually not be allowed to change their mind (repent) back to the gospel they abandoned.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If YOU are saying that you cannot be forgiven - except for the ONE exception that Jesus made in Matt. 12:31-32 - then YOU are preaching a FALSE Gospel.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the one and only sin that God can not forgive.
You can't deny the witness and testimony of the Spirit concerning the truthfulness of the gospel and have the benefit of the gospel that you are denying. That's why it can't be forgiven. You can't have the forgiveness of God that you do not believe and trust in.

 

[Illuminator]

And we need to earn salvation by wrks. Then why have the cross at all?

You keep pounding the 3 same drum. No Christian; Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox, teaches earning salvation with works. Just because you see love in action (works) does not justify a FALSE ACCUSATION.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It says it's impossible to come back to repentance.

"4For it is impossible... 6...to renew them again unto repentance" Hebrews 6:6
​

It's impossible to renew the repentance, their change of mind, towards the gospel they once had.
That isn't allowed. It puts Christ to open shame. That's what the passage says.

That's because you refuse to read it Heb. 4:6 in CONTEXT with the rest of the Letter to the Hebrews.
This is NOT describing the "unforgiveable sin" that Jesus spoke of in Matt. 12:31-32.

I suggest you read the ENTIRE Book - and maybe it'll spark some understanding.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes. But only up to and until God turns you over to your apostasy.

God gave space and time for the Galatians to renew their repentance towards the gospel. We know that by the simple fact that Paul tried to win them back. But we also know that if they persisted in their rejection of the gospel they would eventually not be allowed to change their mind (repent) back to the gospel they abandoned.

WRONG.
Even apostasy can be repented of.

Jesus stated explicitly that there was only ONE sin that was not forgivable - and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:31-32).
In context - this is the sin of FINAL impenitence - nut I know how little regard YOU have for context . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the one and only sin that God can not forgive.
You can't deny the witness and testimony of the Spirit concerning the truthfulness of the gospel and have the benefit of the gospel that you are denying. That's why it can't be forgiven. You can't have the forgiveness of God that you do not believe and trust in.

And yet, you wrongly interpret Heb. 4:6 in this way . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You keep pounding the 3 same drum. No Christian; Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox, teaches earning salvation with works. Just because you see love in action (works) does not justify a FALSE ACCUSATION.

It’s not a false accusation

anytime you see someone say they must do any action in order to get, Maintain ir keep from losing salvation you see someone teaching a works. Non grace based means of salvation

faith working in love is true believers who have been saved, and experienced the love of salvation working to serve others. Not serve themselves as in trying to eventually earn eternal salvation through works

Paul spent his whole ministry fighting legalism. I pray you look deep inside and see why Paul was so against legalistic works

 

[Ferris Bueller]

- nut I know how little regard YOU have for context . . .

But you are the one ignoring the context of Hebrews 6:4-6.
The repentance being spoken of is the repentance the born again person had towards Christ. And that it is impossible (not allowed) to come back to that repentance if they fall away.
But you're saying the repentance it's impossible to have again is repentance towards the old covenant system of sacrifice. Why is it impossible to do that???? I mean, by them going back to the old law that is the very repentance your interpretation of the passage says is impossible to have. So we know repentance in the passage doesn't mean that.

Keep 'repentance' in the context of the passage!
It's the repentance they once had in regard to Christ and the gospel.
It's impossible to get that back because it puts Christ to open shame, and so God doesn't allow it. He doesn't grant it again to the born again person who has fallen away into unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You keep pounding the 3 same drum. No Christian; Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox, teaches earning salvation with works. Just because you see love in action (works) does not justify a FALSE ACCUSATION.

Anybody in any religion who says justification is granted in exchange for a ceremony performed (for example, circumcision) is teaching the works salvation that Paul said is accursed. He uses Abraham, who did not do anything except believe God's promise in order to be made righteous, to show us how we also are made righteous through faith without works and are justified as a reward of grace, not justified as a reward of debt owed for a ceremony performed.

And worse than that is to say a person has to repeatedly perform a ceremony to be repeatedly justified, because they say justification is not a one time event but must be secured over and over again.

 

[farouk]

If OSAS is not true

Then why are we told we will NEVER DIE

Why are we told we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Why are we told we will BE RISEN

Why are we told we have been SEALED BY THE SPIRIT (3 times even)

Why are we told we have been born of incorruptible seed?

Why are we told as long as he lives, we will love?

What purpose does the cross bear? If the cross can not save someone eternally. And we need to earn salvation by wrks. Then why have the cross at all?

@Eternally Grateful Romans 8.38-39 and John's First Epistle are very assuring... :)