Secure Eternal Salvation

[robert derrick]

You do not know what you say you know. You tried to pull that 'if' garbage over on me. Without any verifiable explanations you aren't going to convince me of any of this junk about the Greek you're pushing here.
Right now all I see is the usual OSAS arguments....'it doesn't really mean that, and if you were more educated and enlightened...and saved, like me you'd know that'. That's Gnosticism 101. You people don't realize you're pushing the Gnostic beliefs of the first century.

Very good. I hadn't yet seen that part of it.

It's all based upon carnal minded 'knowledge' and twisting of Scripture.

The extent of their knowledge of the Lord is believing they are saved in is name, without obeying His name.

Their faith alone is dead, being mental only. Their doctrine is mentally dead.

See you even mistake confidence in God with arrogance!

And so OSAS mistakes arrogance for confidence in the Lord.

 

[robert derrick]

You'll see in context that the work these condemned people did not do was in regard to bearing fruit. They were false prophets.
That doesn't mean bearing fruit earns salvation as a reward for work, but rather you aren't saved if you don't bear the fruit of the kingdom. But OSAS says you will be saved even if you don't have works. They miss the fact that the passage is showing us that the absence of fruit signifies you are not saved (and in the case of those people, never were). That's what the old, original OSAS taught. But that's history now. Calvin's OSAS has been rejected in favor of the new Hyper Grace OSAS.

Calvin's OSAS has been rejected in favor of the new Hyper Grace OSAS.

True. The happy hippy corrupt living with good hearts.

We see by the posts of OSAS it doesn't have anything to do with 'losing' salvation, but rather all about dead faith alone, separate from any works.

They separate believing and obeying even to the point of rejecting having an obedient heart. In the heart, only believing is allowed.

That is why it is called an evil heart of unbelief: there is no obedience in the heart at all, but rather is full of disobedience and corruption, though the heart still wants to believe in salvation by unconditional grace.

And so, they are saved once they believe in the heart, which is true, but then they reject having obedience in the heart, as having part in that salvation.

In this way they separate salvation by faith alone in the heart, from any obedience of the body.

It's the natural end of OSAS: obedience can have nothing to do with the heart by which we are saved, else them that cease to obey God from the heart, fail to obtain eternal salvation, having been once saved by faith, but have come short by willful disobedience.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Paul was including himself in the warning. This is not an 'exposure' of them never saved to begin with.

OSAS was a lie from the beginning, by the false judgment that all dogs and pigs were 'never saved in the first place'.

 

[robert derrick]

Yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. (Jerem 3:18)

The tabernacle of David being built again is plant of Judah, which is now the body of Christ.

OSAS teaches to have no fear of the Lord, because they say there are no sins for Him to see in their souls, being blinded to them by the blood of Jesus.

Therefore, even as the natural seed of old, so with the seed of promise in the New: teaching the people of God to play the harlot without fear of the Lord.

Thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

OSAS is one of the harlot idolatries of their mother Mystery Babylon.

And so, by such highminded unconditional security of the air, we would be broken off, even as the natural branches of old.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, I see your spoiled 'I can't do anything wrong' arrogance.

Well as I know my heart far better than you do, I think I will take my own counsel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You do not know what you say you know. You tried to pull that 'if' garbage over on me. Without any verifiable explanations you aren't going to convince me of any of this junk about the Greek you're pushing here.
Right now all I see is the usual OSAS arguments....'it doesn't really mean that, and if you were more educated and enlightened...and saved, like me you'd know that'. That's Gnosticism 101. You people don't realize you're pushing the Gnostic beliefs of the first century.

Wrong again. gnostics were not OSAS. Well go check some greek grammar manuals and learn something. I am not going to spend a long time trying to track down what I have in my Greek grammar book from bible College.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If God willed I never sin again, I wouldn't. And in heaven He does and I won't!

It is not God's will to obediently depart from iniquity while in the mortal body, but obedience against sins will only be required after the resurrection, while in the spiritual body.

I.e. eternal salvation is only for them who obey Him after the resurrection, not before.

Wow! What galaxy did you pluck that from? That is not even close to coming from Gods Word! Even a shallow reading of the bible shows we have eternal salvation now!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is every soul which sinneth it shall die.

So you are going to die! Like every one. You think you will get a second chance in eternity?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

People who stop believing are no longer 'himself'. 1 John 2:24-25

Wrong again, but y0u have shown that grammar is something you feel you don't need.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well as I know my heart far better than you do, I think I will take my own counsel.

"Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either." Romans 11:20-21​

Even if you think this does not mean being cut off from salvation it says to not be arrogant and to fear being cut off. Are you?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either." Romans 11:20-21​

Even if you think this does not mean being cut off from salvation it says to not be arrogant and to fear being cut off. Are you?

Well you have already made up you rmind about what you think I feel or am exuding, so what is the point? Obviously standing up to th elies you have been taught is an automatic being arrogant to you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Wrong again, but y0u have shown that grammar is something you feel you don't need.

Hey, if you don't need good spelling, I don't need good grammar!

But anyway, you need to understand that the person who stops believing no longer belongs to Christ that he should have some kind of obligation to not deny them. They are no longer a part of himself for him to not be able to deny them. 1 John 2:24-25 2 John 1:9

 

[Ferris Bueller]

th elies you have been taught

Taught?
All one has to do is read the plain words of the Bible to see the anti-OSAS message.
It's OSAS that has to jump in between the reader and the Bible to make the Bible 'not really' mean what it says.
Do you realize how many times you have to say a passage of scripture 'doesn't really' mean what it says to defend OSAS doctrine?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Obviously standing up to th elies you have been taught is an automatic being arrogant to you.

No, being arrogant is thinking you are better than others because of your place in Christ and as a result don't have to fear being cut off.

"They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid." Romans 11:20
​

Good grief, man, just read the Bible for what it says!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am not going to spend a long time trying to track down what I have in my Greek grammar book from bible College.

Then why did you go to Bible college, lol?

 

[BreadOfLife]

It hasn't been that since almost the time of the Apostles, lol. Acts 20:29-30

The sum total of individual believers trusting in Christ is not leaderless.
As I said, there are those among us who have been given gifts to be leaders and guides for the body.
They become apparent when us true trusting, believing people meet together.
We don't need the Catholic organization to do that. That's why they've lied to you Catholics and made you think you need them.

No - not "almost".
The Church has been ONE, visible unified Body since the time Apostles (Acts 15).

When you discard the denomination part, including your denomination, it's not a mess at all. But otherwise, it is just as you describe.
All thanks to godless, unsaved, Spirit-less men who took over and corrupted the church not too long after the time of the Apostles.
But, nonetheless, despite these ungodly men, God has preserved those who are truly his as they wander through deserts and mountains hiding in caves and holes in the ground from the persecutions and assassinations of the self-appointed fake church - Hebrews 11:38.

WRONG.

First of all - the Catholic Church isn't a "denomination", as I have repeatedly shown you. It is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered and continues to splinter. Christ's Church is NOT yo be "dissected, as YOU state. That's why you have the following mess . . .

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

That's NOT the unity of the ONE Body of Christ (John 17:20-23).
That's utter chaos . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You'll have to start understanding that 'believer' means someone who trusts in the ministry and sacrifice of Christ, not just knows the truth about it. As I explained to you, demons who know and believe the truth about the existence of Christ and his Sonship do not trust in Christ, lol.

Ans apparently YOU don't because you "believe" that His Church went into apostasy, thereby nullifying His promise that it wouldn't (Matt. 16:18).

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you think I haven't been saying this????
What I reject is the Catholic church's claim that they are that body.
You know, the church that has the blood of probably millions of people on their hands, putting them to death because they didn't agree with their teachings and threatened their positions of wealth and influence and status. The murderous church you claim is the spittin' image of Christ and the Apostles on earth. Yeah, right. That's a joke.

And your claims are as historically bankrupt as the "1619 Project".

Buy, what should I expect from a guy who thinks Jesus is a liar (Matt. 16:18) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don't even know what 'church' means, do you?
It's referring to 'called out ones'.
Any and everybody who has been called out of the world through faith in Christ is the church.
You're making the church out to be an institution of dogmas and ceremonies. That's not what 'called out ones' means.
You do NOT have to go to 'church' to be a called out one.
You are the church by virtue of your faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sin apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:6).

What a ridiculously shallow understanding of Christ's Church and what it means to be "called out".

To be part of Christ's Church and to be "called out" requires obedience - which is ALL part of what "Faith" is:
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)
- And YES - going to Church (Heb. 10:25).

 

[BreadOfLife]

What I know is that the gift of wisdom and discernment operates in the church.
And that gift NEVER violates or nullifies or changes the revelation of God we already have in the written word.
Through wisdom and discernment we can have a fuller understanding and application of the written word. And so the prophetic, oral word of God only goes above and beyond what is written in that way only. Revelation NEVER violates what is already revealed to us in the pages of the written word.

Now, back to your exegesis of Hebrews 6:4-6, thank you.

And as usual - you DODGED the question.
I asked you if you reject the idea that the Scriptures are our SOLE Authority.

As to your foolish assertion that "wisdom and discernment" are what guide the Church and that these qualities are "NEVER" at odds with God's revelations - how do you reconcile this with tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit??
In post #365, I gave a short list of these competing Protestant doctrines.

THAT's what you call "discernment and wisdom"??

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Post# 636

apparently YOU don't because you "believe" that His Church went into apostasy, thereby nullifying His promise that it wouldn't (Matt. 16:18).

The “church” are the people who continue faithful in the Word.

The “church” is not a building or institution.

Your charge is in error.