Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ah, yes.
The arrogance of the OSAS movement.
The very arrogance Paul warned us not to have.
Secure Eternal Salvation
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The arrogance of the OSAS movement.
The very arrogance Paul warned us not to have.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
OSAS is the gospel- Paul makes a big deal of proving that to the Galatians!
The good news that saves is this:
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That is it. Period! SWHALL means SHALL Not maybe.
But the gospel according ot Ferris is this:
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14. As long as you keep believing and never fall into any period of unbelief- then you can be saved.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
See you even mistake confidence in God with arrogance!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I strongly encourage you to start studying the bible in the greek (with English there fo course) and learn how the verbs control passages. Your mistakes are the common mistakes of new believers and those who just stay shallow. Once one learns what the Writers were actually saying (beying the mere word for word translation) and see what verbs and cases etc. God uses, you realize you cannot lose what God gave you freely, even your ability to say yes is a gift from God!
Happy thanksgiving!
This thread began with a simple Scriptural proof that eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him.
The final conclusion of rejecting that was:
If God willed I never sin again, I wouldn't. And in heaven He does and I won't!
It is not God's will to obediently depart from iniquity while in the mortal body, but obedience against sins will only be required after the resurrection, while in the spiritual body.
I.e. eternal salvation is only for them who obey Him after the resurrection, not before.
Another declaration by OSAS is that God is 'exclusively sovereign' over their salvation, and they have neither responsibility to Him for it, nor are cooperators with Him in it, and to teach such self-responsibility and cooperation in salvation is 'pride of works'.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Scripture shows that with salvation, God has put His trust in us to keep His salvation and ministry pure from vanity and hypocrisy:
Christians are entrusted by God not to put Christ to an open shame, by crucifying Christ afresh publicly through sins and trespasses, and so making His crucifixion once again a cursed thing to be despised by the unbelievers: the cross and blod of Jesus is vain, because it does not deliver from sins and trespasses common to all flesh.
Christian responsibility in salvation is to obey Him in all things in the heart and in the body, as a testimony and witness of the truth of His saving grace through obedience to the faith of Jesus: the power of His blood to be free from sins, neither servants to sins, in their mortal bodies.
Otherwise, through sins of disobedience, Jesus' salvation is made a laughingstock and scorn to them of the world.
Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Hypocrites that preach unconditional salvation in sins, so sear their consciences to the truth, that they do not see their plain hypocrisy, that the rest of the world sees.
Jesus' salvation by grace has been scorned, since 'Christians' began to preach and believe they are saved through unconditional grace by faith alone, so that their sins are not 'seen' by God, though He sees the same sins in others: OSAS teaches that God is in fact a respecter of persons, judging the sins of one while excusing them of another.
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...so that they are without excuse.
With salvation, God puts His trust in His people to live obediently to Him in their hearts and bodies, that none of the world my say of His Dear Son's eternal salvation:
"Oh, so you can sin like us, but you are not judged for them like us, because you 'believe in Jesus'. God sees my sins, but He doesn't see yours, because you 'have faith in Jesus'. You're not responsible for your sins and won't have to give account for them like us, because Jesus' grace has you 'covered'."
Christians are certainly responsible for God's salvation entrusted in their souls, and they are to cooperate with Him in His salvation by continual obedience to Him, that Jesus and His salvation by grace through faith be not rightly and openly scorned through the hypocritic doctrine of unconditional eternal security that is through faith only, without necessity of obeying Him.
The final conclusion of rejecting that was:
If God willed I never sin again, I wouldn't. And in heaven He does and I won't!
It is not God's will to obediently depart from iniquity while in the mortal body, but obedience against sins will only be required after the resurrection, while in the spiritual body.
I.e. eternal salvation is only for them who obey Him after the resurrection, not before.
Another declaration by OSAS is that God is 'exclusively sovereign' over their salvation, and they have neither responsibility to Him for it, nor are cooperators with Him in it, and to teach such self-responsibility and cooperation in salvation is 'pride of works'.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Scripture shows that with salvation, God has put His trust in us to keep His salvation and ministry pure from vanity and hypocrisy:
Christians are entrusted by God not to put Christ to an open shame, by crucifying Christ afresh publicly through sins and trespasses, and so making His crucifixion once again a cursed thing to be despised by the unbelievers: the cross and blod of Jesus is vain, because it does not deliver from sins and trespasses common to all flesh.
Christian responsibility in salvation is to obey Him in all things in the heart and in the body, as a testimony and witness of the truth of His saving grace through obedience to the faith of Jesus: the power of His blood to be free from sins, neither servants to sins, in their mortal bodies.
Otherwise, through sins of disobedience, Jesus' salvation is made a laughingstock and scorn to them of the world.
Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Hypocrites that preach unconditional salvation in sins, so sear their consciences to the truth, that they do not see their plain hypocrisy, that the rest of the world sees.
Jesus' salvation by grace has been scorned, since 'Christians' began to preach and believe they are saved through unconditional grace by faith alone, so that their sins are not 'seen' by God, though He sees the same sins in others: OSAS teaches that God is in fact a respecter of persons, judging the sins of one while excusing them of another.
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...so that they are without excuse.
With salvation, God puts His trust in His people to live obediently to Him in their hearts and bodies, that none of the world my say of His Dear Son's eternal salvation:
"Oh, so you can sin like us, but you are not judged for them like us, because you 'believe in Jesus'. God sees my sins, but He doesn't see yours, because you 'have faith in Jesus'. You're not responsible for your sins and won't have to give account for them like us, because Jesus' grace has you 'covered'."
Christians are certainly responsible for God's salvation entrusted in their souls, and they are to cooperate with Him in His salvation by continual obedience to Him, that Jesus and His salvation by grace through faith be not rightly and openly scorned through the hypocritic doctrine of unconditional eternal security that is through faith only, without necessity of obeying Him.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You do not know what you say you know. You tried to pull that 'if' garbage over on me. Without any verifiable explanations you aren't going to convince me of any of this junk about the Greek you're pushing here.
Right now all I see is the usual OSAS arguments....'it doesn't really mean that, and if you were more educated and enlightened...and saved, like me you'd know that'. That's Gnosticism 101. You people don't realize you're pushing the Gnostic beliefs of the first century.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Pythagorean12
Active Member
It's a trend. 
Denial
of RRC practices. Wow!
My post speaks for itself. And thus make clear the lie that interjects itself through the mind of that offender who claims I said something that is clearly not present in my post.
It is sick to marginalize the discussion as relates to pervert pedo-prirsts with the counter, but protestants are worse!
It misses the point. And is an example of why the grotesque centuries long history of pedo-priest abuse, and cover-up is an issue even to this day.
Actual Catholics don't hate Christians in Protestantism.
Hate is not a LRC value. Those of us who know actual RRC Catholics know this.
Furthermore, actual RRC members know indulgences still exist in their church.
That is how we here are to know the difference between hate filled board walkers and the real RRC deal. P.S. The real "ain't" here.
Pope Francis authorizes plenary indulgences and general absolution as coronavirus crisis escalates
Denialof RRC practices. Wow!
My post speaks for itself. And thus make clear the lie that interjects itself through the mind of that offender who claims I said something that is clearly not present in my post.
It is sick to marginalize the discussion as relates to pervert pedo-prirsts with the counter, but protestants are worse!
It misses the point. And is an example of why the grotesque centuries long history of pedo-priest abuse, and cover-up is an issue even to this day.
Actual Catholics don't hate Christians in Protestantism.
Hate is not a LRC value. Those of us who know actual RRC Catholics know this.
Furthermore, actual RRC members know indulgences still exist in their church.
That is how we here are to know the difference between hate filled board walkers and the real RRC deal. P.S. The real "ain't" here.
Pope Francis authorizes plenary indulgences and general absolution as coronavirus crisis escalates
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Pythagorean12
Active Member
God cannot deny himself . The precise fact that upholds OSAS.
I learned long ago, people who feel insecure and unsaved will never be persuaded by the actual Gospel.
It is as God wills.
Pythagorean12
Active Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
For one thing, whether you can lose your salvation or not is not the gospel, lol.
And another thing, not believing OSAS does not mean you are insecure in your salvation.
The Bible tells us what gives us the assurance, and the security of salvation. And it is not OSAS. There is security, and assurance of salvation outside of having to believe in an OSAS doctrine.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Pythagorean12
Active Member
Pythagorean12
Active Member
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (22) Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ (23) Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’
Yes, interesting that those claiming to have been prophesying and casting out demons in the name of Christ are judged as workers of iniquity and denied entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven as distinct from those doing God's Will who are given entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Oh, I've never heard of that.
BOL is Roman Catholic, but it seems he's never heard of it either.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You'll see in context that the work these condemned people did not do was in regard to bearing fruit. They were false prophets.
That doesn't mean bearing fruit earns salvation as a reward for work, but rather you aren't saved if you don't bear the fruit of the kingdom. But OSAS says you will be saved even if you don't have works. They miss the fact that the passage is showing us that the absence of fruit signifies you are not saved (and in the case of those people, never were). That's what the old, original OSAS taught. But that's history now. Calvin's OSAS has been rejected in favor of the new Hyper Grace OSAS.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Jesus will never leave me or forsake me!
Not me!! Because I'm so special!! We're OSAS!!! What would God ever do for eternity without us??!!
The very arrogance Paul warned us not to have.
Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
OSAS is the childish delusion of thinking agreeing with the truth is obeying the truth.
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil.
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
That is every soul which sinneth it shall die.
The arrogance of OSAS is they truly think their souls have become untouchable by judgment of God, because their sins have become blind to God.
Even as they are willfully blind to all the plain Scriptures warning us against disobedience to the faith, so are they serving an idol that has eyes that cannot see, and hands that cannot touch.
They are in a hand that cannot touch them.
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