Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

ALL sin damages our relationship with God and is consequential to our salvation.

Only if that sin is indicative of unbelief, and not the weakness, or sloth, or ignorance, or just plain foolishness of the genuine believer. As long as you continue to believe, your failures are covered by the blood of Christ. Only the sin of unbelief is not covered by the blood for the person who has believed. Ultimately, you can't have the ongoing benefit of the intercessory ministry of Christ that you no longer believe and trust in. But as long as the believer continues in his believing all his failures as a believer are covered.

 

[robert derrick]

Think about it.

Our walk is by faith, not by sight. What we believe. What we choose to do based on what we believe about God, and His Word to us.

If this hope causes us to purify ourselves, what should be expected to happen when "this hope" is denied?

So when you persist in telling someone, You can screw this up, you know, you're not really saved until you're dead, you know! That is, all these places where God says you can know? Well you can't! Isn't that your message?

Much love!

If this hope causes us to purify ourselves, what should be expected to happen when "this hope" is denied?

The sure hope of salvation and eternal life is not denied anyone by preaching eternal salvation is for all them that obey Him, but is confirmed with the surety of knowing we are believing Jesus, while we are obeying Him.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge...

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

If we are not adding obedience to the faith of Jesus, then we can believe all we want, and have no truth in us, because we are blind to the truth of eternal salvation.

If we agree we can preach, 'Our walk is by faith, not by sight. What we believe and obey according to God's Word.'

Then we are in full agreement on them that believe and obey having a sure hope of glory to come, by grace through faith and with much love shed abroad in our hearts by the Spirit.

The only difference between you and me, is that you refuse to believe we can depart from that faith of Jesus that saves, once we surely have it with fruitful obedience in our lives.

And, you believe that, not because Scripture teaches it, but plainly because it gives you a surer hope to be purified for.

And so long as we are doing so, we are brethren in the faith and learned obedience of Jesus.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I was not looking for the Lord. I'd made a deal with a guy...stop bugging me to go to church and I'll go...once! He agreed.
When He put John 3:16 in my heart, I didn't have a choice to believe...He just did it and I've never been able to stop believing. That's just how it was and is. I had no desire to have anything to do with God.

I guess I always believed that God and Jesus were real, too, because I grew up in the church, more or less, lol. But the day came where I had to put my trust in that which I knew was true. It took four or five years to finally cave into the conviction of the Lord to do that. But when I did my conversion was dramatic and overwhelming. I'm tearing up just thinking about it again, 35 years later. What seemed so impossible to happen God made happen for me. May he be forever praised.

 

[Truman]

All in all, this life has been little more than a nightmare for me.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All in all, this life has been little more than a nightmare for me.

Ultimately, it's as nightmarish as it must be to keep you from falling in love with the world and for keeping your eyes on Jesus.
I resent it too, but I know the nightmare has it's purpose. Though I'm hoping that God will grant me some good, peaceful years in my remaining days. But don't get me wrong, God has been really good and gracious and merciful to me through it all. I have good memories of good people of good places and good times at various times in life, despite the things that were so wrong and not good during those times.

 

[Truman]

Ultimately, it's as nightmarish as it must be to keep you from falling in love with the world and keeping your eyes on Jesus.
I resent it too, but I know the nightmare has it's purpose. Though I'm hoping that God will grant me some good, peaceful years in my remaining days. But don't get me wrong, God has been really good and gracious and merciful to me through it all.

I have be ill and in pain for 21 years. The only thing that's changed is that it's gotten worse.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What seemed so impossible to happen God made happen for me.

"I can't get there from here, God!", I cried out in my heart.
That's when he saved me and the impossible became the possible.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have be ill and in pain for 21 years. The only thing that's changed is that it's gotten worse.

The wisest thing Job's friends did was not say anything for seven days when they came to visit him in his distress. I've learned the best thing to do is shut up and put a comforting arm around the person suffering in unexplainable suffering. God knows the purpose for our suffering. I don't, you don't. I just know it really does have a purpose. I've seen it enough times to know that. May God himself comfort and encourage you in your distress...

"Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who by grace has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope, encourage your hearts and strengthen you..." 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17

​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

One of my life verses...

"3Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope." Romans 5:3-4
​

Suffering will change you. And when you see the changes happening you know that your faith is not in vain and you really do belong to him and have the hope of the life to come.

 

[robert derrick]

Only if that sin is indicative of unbelief, and not the weakness, or sloth, or ignorance, or just plain foolishness of the genuine believer. As long as you continue to believe, your failures are covered by the blood of Christ. Only the sin of unbelief is not covered by the blood for the person who has believed. Ultimately, you can't have the ongoing benefit of the intercessory ministry of Christ that you no longer believe and trust in. But as long as the believer continues in his believing all his failures as a believer are covered.

Only if that sin is indicative of unbelief, and not the weakness, or sloth, or ignorance, or just plain foolishness of the genuine believer.

And what this difference between sin indicative of unbelief, and just plain old foolish sin?

There are no 'genuine' believers. Only believers that obey Jesus.

As long as you continue to believe.

Believe what? The Scriptures, or our own minds? Believe that that we are saved? Going to heaven? What Scripture speaks of 'believing we are saved'?

Only the sin of unbelief

Once again, what is a 'sin of unbelief' vs regular old sin? And again, what Scripture speaks of the 'sin of unbelief'?

They rose up to play in idolatry and fornication, and so they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief.

They had Jesus crucified and so because of unbelief they were broken off.

I.e. all sin defines unbelief. All sin is the result of unbelief.

There is no 'sin of unbelief' vs regular old sin.

So long as we continue to believe Jesus and obey the Word of God, then, and only then, if we sin we have an advocate with the Father, and if we confess our sin, then He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin, and the blood of the Lamb cleanses us of all sin.

Again, and again, and again with confession of sin, if necessary.

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.


Jesus shed His blood once and for all and now cleanses all sin, and is eternally available for all them that believe and obey Him. Not for any of them that just want to believe it in their normal sins.

 

[robert derrick]

How much obedience is required?

Much love!

I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you

How much disobedience is allowed?

 

[marks]

The only difference between you and me, is that you refuse to believe we can depart from that faith of Jesus that saves, once we surely have it with fruitful obedience in our lives.

This fully mischaracterizes me. This is not the difference. Not at all.

I don't refuse to believe anything, but if that's what you think is happening here, what's more to say?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you

How much disobedience is allowed?

Nice dodge.

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

This is getting away from what John wrote.

We know we will be like Him when we see Him, and he who has this hope purifies themself, even as Jesus is pure.

There is nothing you "do" here, other that having this hope, specifically, complete confidence that when you see Jesus, you will be like Him, seeing Him as He is.

That's it.

Your objection appears to be that perhaps you have a dead faith and therefore a false hope, with no subsequent purifying benefit, is that fair to say?

Would it be equally fair to say that if you have a true faith, then this is a true hope, and therefore you truly do purify yourself, even as He is pure?

Much love!

There is nothing you "do" here

Repentance is doing, not just thinking about it:

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.

That they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Purifying ourselves is not just thinking happy thoughts.

Would it be equally fair to say that if you have a true faith, then this is a true hope, and therefore you truly do purify yourself, even as He is pure?

Sure. And the true faith of Jesus is that which obeys Him.

It's really quite simple: We are saved by grace through faith, not by grace through faith only. And so by grace we have help in time of need to obey Him and not sin against Him.

You apparently have an absolute angst about obedience and works of faith accompanying eternal salvation.

I don't know why, because I don't suspect you are a fornicator nor idolater nor abuser of yourself with mankind...

I suppose, it just must be learned doctrinal thinking you cannot escape.

I propose, your faith in Jesus is true, and that you do obey Him from the heart, and do not convince yourself of sinful living as justified by grace, but your 'doctrine' of believing only is an error that you rely upon for assurance to continue in obedience.

Unless, I am completely mistaken, and you are a drunkard or idolater or adulterer or profane...that excuses such by grace.

 

[robert derrick]

Nice dodge.

Much love!

The Jesus way.

The answer of course is simple: as much obedience as there is opportunity to obey.

Even as much opportunity to do good for the brother in need.

And as much opportunity to forgive our brother coming to reconcile with us.

And so, I would say, not obey seventy times, but obey seventy times seven.

 

[Truman]

The wisest thing Job's friends did was not say anything for seven days when they came to visit him in his distress. I've learned the best thing to do is shut up and put a comforting arm around the person suffering in unexplainable suffering. God knows the purpose for our suffering. I don't, you don't. I just know it really does have a purpose. I've seen it enough times to know that. May God himself comfort and encourage you in your distress...

"Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who by grace has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope, encourage your hearts and strengthen you..." 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17

​

Sometimes it's just hard to say, "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away...blessed be the name of the Lord."
I'm glad you told me that about yourself. It really does have a purpose. It's just hard, that's all. I guess we're off-topic.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nice dodge.

Much love!

It's very clever.
He put the ball right back into your court. Now what?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I guess we're off-topic.

Not a chance.
I sense God is speaking.

 

[marks]

The Jesus way.

The answer of course is simple: as much obedience as there is opportunity to obey.

Even as much opportunity to do good for the brother in need.

And as much opportunity to forgive our brother coming to reconcile with us.

And so, I would say, not obey seventy times, but obey seventy times seven.

Then everyone is out of the running, and we should all go do something else, something useful.

If your eternal life depends on you obeying God as Jesus did, well, hey, I don't know you, so what can I say? But from what I can tell, that disqualifies everyone, and that's the way it is.

So none will have eternal life, not so far as I can tell. And in fact the Bible has some passages that become very problematic if that view is held. "He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ", that would be one.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There is nothing you "do" here

Repentance is doing, not just thinking about it:

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.

That they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Purifying ourselves is not just thinking happy thoughts.

Would it be equally fair to say that if you have a true faith, then this is a true hope, and therefore you truly do purify yourself, even as He is pure?

Sure. And the true faith of Jesus is that which obeys Him.

It's really quite simple: We are saved by grace through faith, not by grace through faith only. And so by grace we have help in time of need to obey Him and not sin against Him.

You apparently have an absolute angst about obedience and works of faith accompanying eternal salvation.

I don't know why, because I don't suspect you are a fornicator nor idolater nor abuser of yourself with mankind...

I suppose, it just must be learned doctrinal thinking you cannot escape.

I propose, your faith in Jesus is true, and that you do obey Him from the heart, and do not convince yourself of sinful living as justified by grace, but your 'doctrine' of believing only is an error that you rely upon for assurance to continue in obedience.

Unless, I am completely mistaken, and you are a drunkard or idolater or adulterer or profane...that excuses such by grace.

Forget about your perceptions of some "angst". That's pure distraction. You don't know me, we've never met. I'm sitting here discussing what the Bible says.

I guess you've got the idea somehow that I'm all emotionally wrapped up in not having to obey God, which, to me, makes for a VERY poor argument to make your case.

I think we've covered the ground, unless you have something else.

Much love!