Secure Eternal Salvation

[Robert Gwin]

I am eternally secure...as long as I keep believing.

As long as I keep believing/trusting in Christ I possess a salvation that will never end.

Even the demons believe Ferris, but that is not all that is required sir, obedience to the laws of the Christ are essential for salvation.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No sir. I was showing how your post was true, but inserting the bewildering experience on this thread from the OSAS masters, that they could actually argue against obedience to the faith for eternal salvation.

I was not referring to you. From all your posts, you are certainly not a believer only.

I appreciate that Robert, I certainly did misunderstand what you were trying to convey. It is interesting how minds think, and even though written word is exacting, without body language sometimes it is difficult to understand. I am glad we agree sir.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Even the demons believe Ferris, but that is not all that is required sir, obedience to the laws of the Christ are essential for salvation.

Demons do not trust in Christ. They know full well all the facts and that he is the Messiah, better than us even, but they do not place their trust in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

Believing is how you are justified.
But no one will be saved who doesn't have a faith that works.
We should be more careful to make the distinction between justification and salvation to remove any confusion about works being required to be saved when Jesus comes back. For no one will be justified (made righteous) by their works , but no one will be saved when Jesus comes back without them.

 

[marks]

This is perfectly Scripural, and to my mind, cannot be honestly denied. I see the danger of preaching the first part by faith and leaving out the accompanying part obedience to the faith, leads to believing in a salvation without things accompanying: works meet for repentance, and obedience to the Word of God.

If you agree with necessary works of faith for eternal salvation to be obtained in that day, which begins with faith and confession of Jesus from the heart, then our only differences would be semantics. We would then both agree: no Christians will finish the race lawfully by disobedience to the faith they have in Jesus' name, and so will not obtain the prize of the high calling of God and win Christ: resurrection to life, and not to shame.

What I believe is that when we are reborn, we are changed to something different, and that something different will act different because it is different. However, "being different" doesn't "save us", the act of making us something different is what saves us.

We are not saved by being reborn into people who do good works, and the combination of that change and those good works saves us. We are saved by being reborn, and having been reborn, we'll go on to do good works, but those works don't mean a thing towards our being saved, they are entirely after the fact.

It's like, I'm a cat, and I'm somehow changed into a fish. And now someone is asking, if I don't stay in the water, will I turn back into a cat?

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I thought you were done with me?

Christians keep their word.

Mantra making is as useless as sounding brass. No matter how much is clanged.

No one has yet to even try to address the proof Scripture of this thread. Eternal salvation is for them that obey.

I don't like getter red alerts and hoping to find either a good correction or further confirmation, and ending up with just another version of the same old same old.

Kindly put up, or have courtesy to move on to others.

I thought so to, but I guess I can't leave your infantile mishandling of SCripture alone.

Rom. 10:9-13 is the ultimate verse:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This is a one time act that causes a permanent change in a person. To say that one has to keep on obeying or one will lose their salvation- is a salvation by works which Paul called those who believe that anathema!

Once again you believe in a God who if He is not omniscient, saves someone knowing full well he will unsave them because of unsatisfactory performance.

YOu believe that Jesus blood did not pay for all your sins, because their are some sins the blood won't cover!

YOu have to edit scriptures that say without question that once saved always saved by putting in Watchtower parentheses (only as long as they obey).

Well the bible does write about people who seemed to be Christian but were actually not!

Matthew 7:20-23
King James Version

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Once again, Jesus does not say , I knew you once but don't know you anymore.

1 John 2:19
King James Version

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


these are people who were with us, but left because they were not of us (saved)

2 Peter 2:20-22
King James Version

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This one takes some real study in the Greek to see that these folks were not believers. These are people who understood the gospel, were brought to the point of salvation, they returned to their old ways.

Remember Jesus does not turn goats to sheep, or weeds to wheat. He seeks the lost sheep and harvests the wheat.

Even the parable shows that people who appear saved were never saved:

Matthew 13:24-30
King James Version

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The weeds, looked just like wheat until near the harvest, then it showed they were weeds.

But most of all you make Jesus a liar:

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

but the gospel of Robert Derrick adds an unwritten passage here in his good news: (Unless you stop obeying). Matter of fact you do that to all the verses that show when one is saved they are sealed (unless you stop obeying), perfected forever (unless you stop obeying), justified (unless you stop obeying), glorified (unless you stop obeying), you life is hid with Christ (unless you stop obeying), seated in heavenly places (unless you stop obeying), a chilld of God( unless you stop obeying), made a new creature( unless you stop obeying), never perish(unless you stop obeying), etc.etc.etc.

YOu make Gods love conditional,limited, and shallow. You make redemption and salvation conditioned on ones performance.

See all those nasty verses have to do with our life on earth and the blessings or lack thereof for obeying. When one is born again they are regened! But though Jesus says to keep on forgiving people, yo uhave him stop forgiving in your bible.

Paul spoke well of you:

Galatians 1:6-9
King James Version

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is a one time act that causes a permanent change in a person.

For all the wrangling about OSAS, the argument comes down to whether or not a saved person can stop believing. I wish we wouldn't make it any more of an argument beyond this.

 

[amigo de christo]

I am eternally secure...as long as I keep believing.

As long as I keep believing/trusting in Christ I possess a salvation that will never end.

Point to JESUS to the final breath . Many are falling away and many more will .
We must endure faithful unto the end . JESUS said it more than once . On earth and from heaven .
Paul said it too , jude reminded , so did peter . KEEP REMINDING

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To say that one has to keep on obeying or one will lose their salvation- is a salvation by works which Paul called those who believe that anathema!

Only insofar as the 'obeying' is representative of 'believing'.
IOW, it's not your obedience in and of itself that determines your salvation, but rather your works indicate a continuation or a cessation of your believing. And so in that theology justification/salvation remains dependent on believing and the reward being reckoned through grace, not dependent on works and the reward being reckoned through debt owed (Romans 4:4).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Once again you believe in a God who if He is not omniscient, saves someone knowing full well he will unsave them because of unsatisfactory performance.

No, unsatisfactory believing.
The absence of works is just the indicator used to judge that absence of believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOu believe that Jesus blood did not pay for all your sins, because their are some sins the blood won't cover!

Jesus' blood does not cover the sin of unbelief. Jesus covers a lot of things for the believer, but it does not cover a believer's return to unbelief.
And of course, that brings us back to the one argument that OSAS boils down to—can the true believer stop believing? Calvinism says, 'no'. Armianism says, 'yes'. That is the one and only question that has to be answered to determine if OSAS is true or not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOu have to edit scriptures that say without question that once saved always saved by putting in Watchtower parentheses (only as long as they obey).

...it's 'only as long as they believe'.
The obedience is simply the indicator of whether or not faith is still present, or ever was present in a person.
Pages and pages of OSAS discussion would cease if we all just understood that is the fundamental argument of whether OSAS is true or not. Can a real believer stop believing? That's all we need to know to settle this.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

having been reborn, we'll go on to do good works, but those works don't mean a thing towards our being saved, they are entirely after the fact.

Just because works are after the fact doesn't mean they don't mean a thing towards being saved.
Your works indicate the presence or absence of faith in God.
That's why Jesus will judge us according to our works when he returns.

34 ...‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's like, I'm a cat, and I'm somehow changed into a fish. And now someone is asking, if I don't stay in the water, will I turn back into a cat?

Yes, you will turn back into a cat.
If you reject the faith by which you are kept by the power of God for the salvation that is to be revealed, you will not be shielded by God's power for the salvation that is to be revealed:

"5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5
​

No more faith - no more shield of God's power for salvation.

 

[Truman]

What I don't get is how can you stop believing something you know is true?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Demons do not trust in Christ. They know full well all the facts and that he is the Messiah, better than us even, but they do not place their trust in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

Believing is how you are justified.
But no one will be saved who doesn't have a faith that works.
We should be more careful to make the distinction between justification and salvation to remove any confusion about works being required to be saved when Jesus comes back. For no one will be justified (made righteous) by their works , but no one will be saved when Jesus comes back without them.

It is a combination sir. True faith is showed by action.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What I don't get is how can you stop believing something you know is true?

Being saved through faith means you trust in what God has shown you and convinced you is true.

That's the truly sad part about people who reject the gospel. They know it's true, because the testimony of the Holy Spirit showed them it's true, yet they turn away from it anyway, casting the word of God away from them. Believers who place their trust in the gospel hear it and retain it in their hearts. And so we have the Biblical admonition to hold on to what we heard in the beginning. If the word of God remains in us, we will remain in the Father and the Son (1 John 2:24-25).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

True faith is showed by action.

That's a fact. Even Paul, from whom we get the 'justification apart from works' gospel, said the faith that justifies is the faith that obeys...

"All that matters (towards justification) is faith, expressed through love." Galatians 5:6​

And so what that means is faith in the blood of Christ to wash away your sin guilt is the faith that moves you to obey God's commands, summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

"...because her many sins have been forgiven, she has loved much." Luke 7:47
​

See it? Because her many sins have been forgiven, she loved much.
And notice Jesus says it is her faith that saved her, not the obedience of her love:

And Jesus told the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7:50
​

Faith without action is dead and can not save, because faith without obedience is not the faith that saves. It isn't really faith. If it was, it would work.

 

[Truman]

Being saved through faith means you trust in what God has shown you and convinced you is true.

That's the truly sad part about people who reject the gospel. They know it's true, because the testimony of the Holy Spirit showed them it's true, yet they turn away from it anyway, casting the word of God away from them. Believers who place their trust in the gospel hear it and retain it in their hearts. And so we have the Biblical admonition to hold on to what we heard in the beginning. If the word of God remains in us, we will remain in the Father and the Son (1 John 2:24-25).

I was not looking for the Lord. I'd made a deal with a guy...stop bugging me to go to church and I'll go...once! He agreed.
When He put John 3:16 in my heart, I didn't have a choice to believe...He just did it and I've never been able to stop believing. That's just how it was and is. I had no desire to have anything to do with God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sorry but Romans 10:9 is a verse that promotes OSAS
And you simply cannot rip a verse out of its context and misuse it.
The People sayi8ng LORD LORD are standing before the Lord in judgment while Romans 10 is a person on earth calling to the Lord for salvation. Two different scenarios and two different time frames that cannot be linked!

This response PROVES that you don't understand the Scriptures.

The people in Matt. 7:21 are absolutely part of the SAME groups as those in Rom. 10:9. because they fully believe that they have true faith. The fact that they don't is part of the same tragedy as MANY people today who don't understand that faith is NOT simply "believing" in Christ.
James 2:19 is rock-solid proof of this when he writes that even the DEMONS believe - then goes on to describe what TRUE faith is (James 2:14-24).

Well because you have been fully inculcated in teh apostasy of Romanism you do not understand what many have called, positional and experiential truths.

Positionally we are sealed, glorified, justified, perfect etc.etc.etc. Whehn we trusted Christ as Savior we are saved forever! Only one person can cause us to lose our salvation. His name is "noman".

Your biggesat error is that you forget that God deals with His children on a day to day basis as well as an eternal basis.

We are being conformed to teh image of Jesus and Jesus said He will complete that work in us! but none of us are perfect and sin while it does not destroy or harm our relationship with God does hinder and hamper our fellowship with God and these are two different things.

If we live in unconfessed sin- that sin stands in teh way of us enjoying the blessings that are ours. It does not take away sonship- just fellowship.

Rome does not teach this and actually denies this by saying one can sin their way out of salvation.

As the Hebrew passage shows- God has already perfected us forever! Now He is in the process of sanctifying us day by day until we attain in eternity that practical experience of holiness.

this is the truth of positional vs. experiential truth! Yes they are words coined by men, but they are words coined to show the biblicasl truth of how God looks at His children.

God will not look upon our sin- because He sees no sin in us! Why? Because they were all paid for at teh cross. If the cross did not pay for our future sins, there remains no more acceptable sacrifice for those sins and we all are hopeless.

We cannot, are not nor ever will be saved by any work we do. We cannot maintain our salvation by avoiding sin and doing good.

a faithful Christian does not do good works to try to please God, get saved or maintain their salvation (and avoiding sin and confessing sin are good works) A faithful Christian does good works because they are saved, eternally secure, The good works are the result of us being saved as Romans 2 declares!

Your false claim above in RED shows the depth of your ignorance of Scripture - and is what is at the crux of your heretical teaching.

ALL sin damages our relationship with God and is consequential to our salvation.
Having unconfessed sin - especially grave sin - is PRECISELY what the following Scriptural warnings are about (Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

You need to go back to the drawing board and invent yourself another doctrine that is a little closer to the truth than the abomination of OSAS . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The people in Matt. 7:21 are absolutely part of the SAME groups as those in Rom. 10:9. because they fully believe that they have true faith.

The people in Matthew 7:20-23, standing before Christ at the Judgment, believe they have true works. Their boast is in their works ("did we not..."), not their faith. We don't know for sure if they have some kind of claim to faith in God. We just know they have a claim to works. That is the context of the passage—works ("by their fruit you shall know them"). Which they have...just not the works that prove the presence of justifying faith.