Secure Eternal Salvation

[robert derrick]

My doctrines do not contradict Scripture

My doctrines. Pretty much sums it up.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed

No God speed for my doctrines.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Being obedient to the faith is called abiding int he doctrine of Christ.

they take in the Greek nuances, context, and use of absolutes.

God spent all this time and energy to have His Word written in our own language, so that we could know His doctrine plain and simple without going to Greek.

Which is why people perverting the doctrine of Christ go to the Greek so much.

Who woulda thunk it: being clean escaped from the pollutions of the world by the knowledge of Jesus Christ is just an epignosy delusion.

Only by a Greek nuance can someone imagine that. A whole lot of nuance.


P.s. Clean escaped means escaping clean. Not dirty. There is no dirty clean. I.e. all them clean escaped are clean, inside first, then outside following...by obedience to the faith, which is abiding in the doctrine of Christ.

My doctrines are nuanced rubbish.

 

[robert derrick]

Correct. "the faith" being the False Christianity of the Vatican. Have you ever heard of the pope or his prelates ever admitting that they are seriously in error? They condemned John Wycliffe for pointing out their errors.

C'mon bro. Play nice. Give credit to where credit is due.

Aside from their old Roman religion of Virgin Vesta of Sacred fire, rebranded as Mary, they aren't so far from Christ. Anyone who believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and confesses Jesus as Christ and Savior can't be all bad.

Such as for yourself. I know for a fact you don't take to no excused disobedience.

 

[robert derrick]

Who? Everyone who argued repeatedly, and contrary to scripture, that salvation can be lost if we don't obey, and work, to stay saved. Sad. Very sad, very huan, very wrong, very lost.

So then, those that disobey are still saved by unconditionally secured grace. Even those who do not believe anymore are still saved.

The only ones not saved are proud and sad humans that preach eternal salvation for them that obey the faith of Jesus.

I mean, can anyone not get it so backward??

What is it that drives disobedient OSAS soldiers?

It's like the man said, The truth will get you truth, but a good excuse will get you anything you want, even if you have to lie, cheat, and steal for it.

The only thing good about being an OSAS soldier, is that I'm not one of them: By the grace of God, that is help in time of need not to become one.

Unconditionally secured salvation is temporary at best, not being secured by obedience to the faith, even as Jesus became the Author of eternal salvation to them that obey Him.

 

[Enoch111]

Aside from their old Roman religion of Virgin Vesta of Sacred fire, rebranded as Mary, they aren't so far from Christ.

When your focus is on Mary as "Queen of Heaven", it cannot be on Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords. The question which all Catholics should ask themselves is this" "Why was Mary allowed to supersede Christ in our church? God has severely condemned the worship of the Queen of Heaven in Scripture."

Here is what we find in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."509

There is no Scripture whatsoever to support this teaching. The Gospel is totally about Christ and His finished work of redemption -- BY HIMSELF. "When He had by himself purged our sins".

 

[marks]

I'm telling you that you are understanding verses with OSAS presuppositions.

And I'm telling you that you would do better in a debate by show how that passage does not say what I assert it says, rather than spending all your time talking about your ideas of why I 'can't seem to understand it.'

That's ad hominem tactics.

not a personal attack on you.

Ad hominem has nothing to do with personal attacks, though sometimes it takes that form.

An ad hominem argument can be, "Joe says that blue diamonds are more valuable than yellow diamonds", and, you can either confirm the values and verify what he's saying, or, as an ad hominem, "Well, Joe's expertise is rubies, not diamonds."

You've stopped talking about the value of diamonds, and started talking about Joe's expertise.

And you've stopped talking about the passages of Scripture, and continue to talk about me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How long do I need to endure in order to know I'm saved?

Romans 8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The question to ask yourself is, do you really know Him?

You don't believe you can "know" you are "saved", meaning, actually spared the harm of future condemnation, so by your standard you can't know until you are dead. That's inconsistent with Scripture, so I point that out.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't dispute scripture. What I dispute is the inference that you draw from scripture. An erroneous inference because it ignores other scripture about the matter.

It says what is says, and that's what it says. You call it an inference because you can't accept it's plain statement.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We know Scripture has truly hit the mark, when people respond with stuff like this:

Yeah, I've come to see how I don't have the same level of personal obedience to God shown by Jesus. Even were I perfect from here on out, I've already lost that race.

So no, I'm not thinking my obediece to God equals Jesus'. Were you thinking yours did/does?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Here is what we find in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."509

Outright heresy.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The only ones not saved are proud and sad humans that preach eternal salvation for them that obey the faith of Jesus.

I mean, can anyone not get it so backward??

I know, it's amazing.
...and scary.
We're watching the church fall apart right before our eyes.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And I'm telling you that you would do better in a debate by show how that passage does not say what I assert it says

I showed you why the passage does not say what YOU assert it says. You're ignoring the full counsel of scripture.
You can't say Colossians 3:1-4 means categorically and without exception that all people who have been raised with him will remain raised with him. You can't say that because of other scripture that you are ignoring.
It's amazing that you're not even open to the suggestion that OSAS ignores other scripture.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Romans 8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The question to ask yourself is, do you really know Him?

So you don't know how long one must endure in order to know if they have the enduring that shows they know him?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You don't believe you can "know" you are "saved", meaning, actually spared the harm of future condemnation, so by your standard you can't know until you are dead. That's inconsistent with Scripture, so I point that out.

In non-OSAS you do know you are saved.
In this passage, the verbs 'are saved' and 'hold firmly' are in the present tense:

"2By this gospel you are (presently) saved, if you (presently) hold firmly to the word I preached to you." 1 Corinthians 15:2
​

As long as you are believing, you are saved from future condemnation when Jesus returns. Because the believing person has no sin guilt to condemn him at the return of Jesus. As long as you are in a present state of believing you are in a present state of being saved from the wrath of God. But if you go back to unbelief you no longer have Christ to wipe away the guilt of your sin and so you will suffer the wrath of God at his return. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Those who trust in unconditional eternal salvation are fair-weather 'friends' of God, who only take His side when they feel like it. They claim a grace to help them be saved in their sins, not to be helped in the eternal salvation, that is from their sins.

You truly must be an amazing mind reader! To write such an absolute statement about tens of millions of believers whom you have never metr amkes you either the greatest human mind reader, or the biggest blow hard humanity has ever seen! Presumptuousness is still a sinin case you forgot because you are so busy judging your fellow believers.

BTW unconditional eternal salvation is the bible. and the fear we are all supposed to have of God is not a fear of HIm punishing us and taking away salvation but a deep reverential awe and deep desire to avoidsinning to grieve the spirit. To be afraid of god is immaturity because perfect love casts out fear!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's not the point. This is not about later generations of Israelites being reunited with Christ.
The point is, God will forsake you if you forsake him.
He will never leave or forsake you as long as you stay in the Covenant.
We Christians love to quote the part about God never leaving or forsaking us, but most don't even know the rest of the story, that he will forsake us if we forsake him.

So according to you, You feel the need to edit the word of God. For the verse in Hebrews is He will never leave you or forsake you, and
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

but you feel god forgot to add "as long as you stay in the covenant." Well as the church is not in a covenant with god for both the Old and New covenants are for Israel alone I guess your correcting God is moot.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

These were dogs and pigs.

And so, living like a dog and pig is proof of no salvation from God.

The dirty little cold-hearted secret of OSAS, is that they will never accept the fact of one who once was a dog and pig, then returned to being a dog and pig. No. That's can't be. Therefore, them that they once called sister and brother, were nothing but dogs and pigs after all! Bunch of dogs and pigs! I don't love them anymore! I hate them for deceiving me!

Wow you need some healing from bitterness. It has corrrupted your soul! Jesus never once called the saved former pigs and dogs and weeds and wolves. We are lost sheep, wheat, elect, foreknown and predestined.

the bible has shown that there are weeds in the field of wheat on earth. they were not wheat once and turned to weeds.
the bible shows there are wolves in sheep clothing not wolves who turned to sheep and became wolves again.
Jesus in Matt. 7 told those who looked like Christians but weren't that He NEVER knew them not knew them once but doesn't know them anymore!
JOhn wrote that those that leave were not of us, at any time and proved it by leaving.

The nature of a cult, is to very quickly and easily cast out them that were once beloved as sister and brother, to be nothing but filthy dogs and pigs, when they are no more of their cult.

And that is the nature of cults and the false sects that believe you can lose your slavation. To them if you have a bad season, you are a dog! OSAS know that a person if truly saved can stumble but God will keep HIm from falling.

And so, not only does OSAS save them walking after the flesh, it's so secure, it even saves the unbeliever.

Lying about what I believe is unbecoming on you!

No wonder obedience is not required with OSAS salvation, it doesn't even require belief! After all, how can we possibly be expected by God to obey the faith, when we aren't even expected to have the faith! Incredible.

Lying again! I have been a teacher of the faith and believer of OSAS for over 47 years, and I have always taught belief and obedience with a passion! Stop lying!

Talk about prophesying smooth things. "Hey, don't worry about it! Even if you return to all your old sins and even worse than before, even to not believing Jesus, you're still saved! So cheer up! God loves you and so do I! Be blessed!"

More lies from a bitter heat!

The question is not about whether we 'believe' we are saved. It's about whether we believe and obey Jesus by knowing we have eternal life in Him.

Maybe if you bothered to learn what the bible teaches o OSAS you would not sound like a Pre-K kid trying to explain quantuum physics.

 

[bbyrd009]

God spent all this time and energy to have His Word written in our own language, so that we could know His doctrine plain and simple without going to Greek

hmm
seems like we are plenty warned about scribes

 

[Robert Gwin]

Who can argue for more transgression and reject obedience to the faith as heartless and heretical?

I am sorry sir, I do not understand what you are saying Robert

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's not the point. This is not about later generations of Israelites being reunited with Christ.
The point is, God will forsake you if you forsake him.
He will never leave or forsake you as long as you stay in the Covenant.
We Christians love to quote the part about God never leaving or forsaking us, but most don't even know the rest of the story, that he will forsake us if we forsake him.

So according to you, You feel the need to edit the word of God. For the verse in Hebrews is He will never leave you or forsake you, and
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

but you feel God left out

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

As you now say that Pentecost and the crowds and the representatives are the fuflilment of the covenant simply show it!

1. It is for all Israel not just the represenatives.
2. God will write His LAW(singular) in their hearts. Unless you believe He does that just for the representatives gathered. Also please show ho you know that representatives from the ten scattered northern tribes sent elders. It is not in Scripture at all, other than the command, which Israel habitually disobeyed.
3. Did God once again take Israel to be His exclusive people again? And did Israel take God to be their God again?
4. If we no longer have to teach any Jew form the least to the greatest to knows the Lord, why is there still evangelism to Jews?
5. You believe god has forgiven and forgotten the sins of all Jews from the least to teh greatest which implies all Jews are now saved?

Please tryt o show answers to the five questions.

 

[robert derrick]

I know, it's amazing.
...and scary.
We're watching the church fall apart right before our eyes.

No we aren't. I'm not falling apart. I don't see you falling apart.

What we are witnessing is the meltdown of a famously destructive teaching, which is a good thing for the church of God.