Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[Robert Gwin]

What reason would I possibly have to do otherwise, Robert?

Why not promote the Jesus of God, the one Whom He promoted, Robert?

Jesus promoted his God Jehovah sir, never himself.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, you missed the part that scripture says he was already equal with God. That is the part you din't grasp. He is not Michael in disguise. Someday He will introduce you to Michael and then you'll get it.
I guess you also avoid or distort Col. 1:16, 17 where it identifies Jesus as the CREATOR.
Do you also avoid John 1:14 where it states that the Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. JW's add to the scripture and take away from it - it has been common practice in the NWT.
So your John 1:1 reads different ("a god") than 50 English translations written by brilliant scholars. The NWT was written by Frederick Franz in the 1950's. He was a hack. He had two years of Greek and couldn't translate one Hebrew text in a court of law. Mainstream Christian theologians worldwide would claim that the NWT is the only translation written to conform to a religious belief system - the Jehovah Witness belief system.
Try reading any other translation only (without your Watchtower commentaries or your other books like "Reasoning Through the Scriptures" and you may discover quite a different truth than you think you know.

Jesus was never referred to as the creator, nor was he ever referred to in the Bible as being equal to Jehovah, not even after he was exalted when he returned to heaven. Sitting at the right hand of God is position or rank sir. If that is not easy enough to understand, then read 1 Cor 11:3, no doubt about it.

 

[charity]

Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?

Hello Robert,

'For the law having a shadow of good things to come,
.. and not the very image of the things,
.... can never with those sacrifices which they offered
...... year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
........ For then would they not have ceased to be offered?
.......... because that the worshippers once purged
............ should have had no more conscience of sins.
But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
.. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
.... Wherefore when He cometh into the world,
...... He saith, 'Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
........ but a body hast thou prepared Me:
.......... In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin Thou hast had no pleasure.'
............ Then said I, 'Lo, I come' (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) 'to do Thy will, O God.'
Above when He said, 'Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest no',
.. neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;'
.... Then said He, 'Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God.'
...... He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second.
........ By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.'
(Heb 10:1-10)

:)

 

[charity]

@Robert Gwin said:-
Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?

'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also Himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death He might destroy Him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren,
that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.'
(Heb 2:14-18)

:)

 

[charity]

Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?

Hello @Robert Gwin,

It was necessary that the Redeemer be flesh and blood. If you have an understanding of the teaching concerning the Kinsman Redeemer in the Old Testament then you will understand.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Wrangler]

I say something. You misinterpret it. Then you assert something irrelevant.

Is there where I say thank you for your opinion?

For the record, I don’t think I misinterpreted but took what you said differently than you meant. An example is when my kids would brag about how much fun they had at a place they where forbidden to go.

Like you, they want me to focus on how much fun they had. While I turn my attention to what is forbidden. In your case, illogical responses.

Galileo famously said, I refuse to believe in a God who would give us a mind and then forgo its use. I hold that proper doctrine is logical. That is, proper doctrine does not contradict itself.

Scripture says Jesus died. That’s how we know he is not God. For those who hold their doctrine over the plain words of God, they at words that aren’t there, such as ‘part of’ Jesus died.

 

[APAK]

No I was asking you! I know what I believe.


Well you can substitute and His redeemer with the redeemer of Israel, but that one is called yahweh of hosts and Jesus is the one and only called Savior and Yahweh of Hosts! sorry but citing one example of a masculine pronoun and forcing it to mean the same here is disingenuous at best. Each time this construct occurs the specific context determines use.

I already answered you on your first response by my previous answer. It should be obvious that I already said no. And on the second, you just cannot show anything to the contrary on what I already said. You just keep repeating the same lines based on whimsical thinking. The Christ is not the one called Savior of Israel in the OT. And the Christ is NEVER called YHWH Ron! The Christ is credited in the NT with his new founded authority and granted titles only given by the Father, who is YHWH. And yes, some are the same as the Father holds, only in specific areas and in proper context.
And your last idea or statement has lost meaning for me...don't understand it

Have a great weekend!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

"FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THAT ARE IN HEAVEN AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, WHETHER THEY BE THRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM." COL. 1:16, 17

JW's believe Jesus is Michael, a created being. Yet the above scripture says Jesus created all things, even angels. So did He create Himself? No. He created Michael.
Jesus is the TRUTH, the LIGHT, the LIFE. Again if you claim He was created, you are inadvertently claiming that TRUTH, LIFE, and LIGHT did not exist before Jesus.
He is the Alpha and Omega, who is, who was and is to come, the Almighty." Rev. 1:8. Verse 7 precedes this veese thay claims He is coming in the clouds - as He departed. Rev. 1:12-18 describes John's vision of Jesus and He reiterates that He is the first and last.

As for 1 Cor. 11:3, the head of Christ is God, since He is God. The heart of Christ is God, the Spirit of Christ is God. Jesus, the Son of Man was submissive and obedient to His Father, while He temporarily relinquished His glory as God. After He accomplished His purpose on earth, His glory as God returned. He said I and the Father are one. How could any angel say that. Hebrews 1 tells us Jesus is above all angels. Even the Father calls Jesus God.
The Father never said to any angel, "You are my Son, today I have Fathered you" ( vs. 5)
"And when again He brings His First born into the world He says,
"Let all the angels worship Him" (vs. 6)

The Father shows a distinction between the angels and Jesus:
"And regarding the angels He says, "He makes His angels winds and His ministers a flame of fire". But regarding the Son He says, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever and tje septer of righteousness us the septer if His Kingdom".

 

[Wrangler]

Not even close. go back and reread teh questions I posed you and maybe this time you will see you did not touch any of them.

Sorry Charlie. I answered your question. Accept it or not. It’s up to you.

 

[Wrangler]

You just keep repeating the same lines based on whimsical thinking. The Christ is not the one called Savior of Israel in the OT. And the Christ is NEVER called YHWH Ron! The Christ is credited in the NT with his new founded authority and granted titles only given by the Father, who is YHWH.

Exactly right on every point! Thanks for the insightful post.

I’ve been influenced by @theefaith’s repeated reference to what Jesus founded his church on.

Jesus founded his church on the BIG REVEAL of being Gods Anointed. Jesus did NOT found his church on him being God incarnate.

 

[APAK]

Exactly right on every point! Thanks for the insightful post.

I’ve been influenced by @theefaith’s repeated reference to what Jesus founded his church on.

Jesus founded his church on the BIG REVEAL of being Gods Anointed. Jesus did NOT found his church on him being God incarnate.

Excellent, the anointed one, of his Father God...indeed

 

[Truman]

The way I resolve this issue? You're all God's problem, not mine.
Moses: "They won't listen and all they want to do is argue."
Yahweh: "Tell Me something I don't know...sigh!"
"If you agree with me, you're alright!"
"If you disagree with me, you're wrong!"
It's this way because I said so! If you disagree with me, you're wrong, stupid, ugly, and your mother dresses you funny!
Truman has spoken...so let it be written! Lol

 

[David in NJ]

I am unable to do that David. I guess I never questioned it, so I will state that as far as I know he was a spirit being prior to coming to earth as a human, and returned to his former state when he returned to heaven. That is either fact or fiction sir, you make the choice.

Well, here is a Godly Quest for you to find the answer in Scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus was never referred to as the creator, nor was he ever referred to in the Bible as being equal to Jehovah, not even after he was exalted when he returned to heaven. Sitting at the right hand of God is position or rank sir. If that is not easy enough to understand, then read 1 Cor 11:3, no doubt about it.

Big Lie here you are promoting - you are trapped in a cult = Watchtower

Seek the LORD while HE may be found

 

[charity]

Big Lie here you are promoting - you are trapped in a cult = Watchtower
Seek the LORD while HE may be found

'And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
Who created all things by Jesus Christ: ... '
(Eph 3:9)

'The four and twenty elders fall down
before Him that sat on the throne,
and worship Him that liveth for ever and ever,
and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O Lord,
to receive glory and honour and power:
for Thou hast created all things,
and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.'
(Rev 4:11)

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus promoted his God Jehovah sir, never himself.

I never suggested otherwise but since you already admitted you teach stuff that you can't find in Scripture, there's no point in continuing this discussion any further.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I already answered you on your first response by my previous answer. It should be obvious that I already said no. And on the second, you just cannot show anything to the contrary on what I already said. You just keep repeating the same lines based on whimsical thinking. The Christ is not the one called Savior of Israel in the OT. And the Christ is NEVER called YHWH Ron! The Christ is credited in the NT with his new founded authority and granted titles only given by the Father, who is YHWH. And yes, some are the same as the Father holds, only in specific areas and in proper context.
And your last idea or statement has lost meaning for me...don't understand it

Have a great weekend!

Well pardon me, I didn't know you were appointed the great decider of what people can and cannot answer.

but Is. 44 shows 2 Yahwehs no matter what game of linguistic twister you play.

Yes I do repeat the same answer for that is true grammar. Scripture proves Jesus is redeemer and the Yahweh of Hosts- no matter what you in your lofty position of faux linguistic grand master command us mer mortals.

"the Christ"? You sound very new age Christian with that phraseology. But sorry APAK, you can't get around the language of Is. 44

but out of sincere curiosity, Before Jesus was given His New testament authority as you put it, what did He exist as? Do you believe He is eternal or created?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry Charlie. I answered your question. Accept it or not. It’s up to you.

So now you add open lying to you rlist of squirming out of honest answers. OK.

YOU have not answered the question I have repeatedly posed you! That sir is the textbook definition of lying!

If you did you would have declared who the word is in verse 1, who the light is, and if there are now two words since you declare that Jesus does not appear in John 1 :14. for before that there is the Word who created and the Light that was the Life of Men-- one last time-- who are the Word and Light that are spoken of in verses before 14?

Answer or not- but to say you did is to self proclaim yourself a liar.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I already answered you on your first response by my previous answer. It should be obvious that I already said no. And on the second, you just cannot show anything to the contrary on what I already said. You just keep repeating the same lines based on whimsical thinking. The Christ is not the one called Savior of Israel in the OT. And the Christ is NEVER called YHWH Ron! The Christ is credited in the NT with his new founded authority and granted titles only given by the Father, who is YHWH. And yes, some are the same as the Father holds, only in specific areas and in proper context.
And your last idea or statement has lost meaning for me...don't understand it

Have a great weekend!

Well pardon me, I didn't know you were appointed the great decider of what people can and cannot answer.

but Is. 44 shows 2 Yahwehs no matter what game of linguistic twister you wish to play. I do repeat

 

[David in NJ]

'And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
Who created all things by Jesus Christ: ... '
(Eph 3:9)

'The four and twenty elders fall down
before Him that sat on the throne,
and worship Him that liveth for ever and ever,
and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O Lord,
to receive glory and honour and power:
for Thou hast created all things,
and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.'
(Rev 4:11)

:)

AMEN AMEN AMEN

i often take note of the 24 Elders and highly recommend their actions to myself and others.