Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[BarneyFife]

While quoting Scripture is cool, it does not answer my question. Why don't you try answering the question using your own words (with Scriptural quotes in support if you prefer) but consider this logical quandary.

P. Being A died.
P. To die means to have no capacity for independent action.
C. Being A has no capacity for independent action (like take things up again).​

While disputing Scripture with human logic and reasoning might seem "cool," it is completely non-authoritative and frivolous. If you want to do some cerebral arm-wrestling with God, rest assured, I won't be taking on the Winner.

I also will not be lured into perpetuating this spammy, ax-grinding, Forum rules-opposing, thread subject again, either.

PPC?

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

Why not promote the God of Jesus, the one whom he promoted Barney.

What reason would I possibly have to do otherwise, Robert?

Why not promote the Jesus of God, the one Whom He promoted, Robert?

 

[BarneyFife]

We cannot be all that bad for that type of God to love us so much....He must see something in us.

Psalm 14:2 Parallel: The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
Psalm 14:3 Parallel: They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mark 10:18 Parallel: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Romans 7:18 Parallel: For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Philippians 2:13 Parallel: For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

John 15:5 Parallel: I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

What He sees in us is His image--the image that Adam and Eve defaced, and with which we are born--which He is anxious to restore fully. His love (which is what and who He is) is what caused Him to create us in the first place. It existed before there was anything to see in us. We have nothing but our wills to offer Him.

1 John 4:19 Parallel: We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[Grailhunter]

While disputing Scripture with human logic and reasoning might seem "cool," it is completely non-authoritative and frivolous.

Human logic....should we use silly logic? Do you hate your mother and father? Without reason Christians can end up on the 5 O' Clock News.

 

[BarneyFife]

You are on fire...ouch!

High-fiving does not a sound doctrine make. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

Human logic....should we use silly logic? Do you hate your mother and father? Without reason Christians can end up on the 5 O' Clock News.

Job 11:7 Parallel: Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
Job 11:8 Parallel: It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
Job 11:9 Parallel: The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

 

[Grailhunter]

Mark 10:18 Parallel: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Well that is the problem with understanding scriptures. Never take unusual scriptures out of context from the theme of the Old or New Testament. If you are a Jew focus on the Old Testament, if you are a Christian focus on the New Testament.

Then how many times in the NT are told to be good and righteous and do good. Was the Bible written for God or humans? Was the bar set so high we could not achieve it? Did God tell us to do things that is not possible?

This website list around 100 scripture were we are told or expected to be good or righteous.
What Does the Bible Say About Being A Better Person?

This website lists around 100 scriptures about pleasing God.
What Does the Bible Say About Pleasing God?

 

[BarneyFife]

Then how many times in the NT are told to be good and righteous and do good. Was the Bible written for God or humans? Was the bar set so high we could not achieve it? Did God tell us to do things that is not possible?

This website list around 100 scripture were we are told or expected to be good or righteous.
What Does the Bible Say About Being A Better Person?

This website lists around 100 scriptures about pleasing God.
What Does the Bible Say About Pleasing God?

You are now most definitely preaching to the choir. :)

 

[Grailhunter]

You are now most definitely preaching to the choir. :)

Well I am liking that.

 

[BarneyFife]

Never take unusual scriptures out of context from the theme of the Old or New Testament.

"Unusual scriptures"--that's amusing.

I don't do dispensationalism, if that's what you are suggesting. Just saying.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yes Jesus who was a spirit being emptied himself becoming human, God's first born son becoming equal

No, you missed the part that scripture says he was already equal with God. That is the part you din't grasp. He is not Michael in disguise. Someday He will introduce you to Michael and then you'll get it.
I guess you also avoid or distort Col. 1:16, 17 where it identifies Jesus as the CREATOR.
Do you also avoid John 1:14 where it states that the Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. JW's add to the scripture and take away from it - it has been common practice in the NWT.
So your John 1:1 reads different ("a god") than 50 English translations written by brilliant scholars. The NWT was written by Frederick Franz in the 1950's. He was a hack. He had two years of Greek and couldn't translate one Hebrew text in a court of law. Mainstream Christian theologians worldwide would claim that the NWT is the only translation written to conform to a religious belief system - the Jehovah Witness belief system.
Try reading any other translation only (without your Watchtower commentaries or your other books like "Reasoning Through the Scriptures" and you may discover quite a different truth than you think you know.

 

[Wrangler]

onsider this logical quandary.
P. Being A died.
P. To die means to have no capacity for independent action.
C. Being A has no capacity for independent action (like take things up again).

While disputing Scripture with human logic and reasoning might seem "cool,"

There is no such thing as human logic, only logic. Your reply is an Appeal to Ignorance AS IF we have some other means to know something than the processes of our mind.

I understand your dilemma. If must be difficult contorting to fit a doctrine that goes against logic, definitions and language usage.

 

[BarneyFife]

There is no such thing as human logic, only logic.

Thank you for your opinion. :)

If must be difficult contorting to fit a doctrine that goes against logic, definitions and language usage.

Not at all. Not in the least. Quite simple, actually. I prefer divinely inspired revelation to the worship of reason.

Proverbs 16:25 Parallel: There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

1 Corinthians 1:21 Parallel: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 2:4 Parallel: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

Matthew 11:25 Parallel: At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

I know, quoting Scripture is cool, right? :)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I JUST answered it in post #190.

Not even close. go back and reread teh questions I posed you and maybe this time you will see you did not touch any of them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I JUST answered it in post #190.

To help you , they were reposted in #214.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you think that because Elohi(y)m is associated with Moses he was also part of creation? If you do, then you are not getting the meaning of Elohi(y)m.

No I was asking you! I know what I believe.

Notice "....and his redeemer.."
the pronoun 'his' means or refers to Israel in the verse, as Israel is a masculine noun in Hebrew. So we could substitute 'and the redeemer of Israel,' in place of 'his redeemer' in the verse.

And the one LORD, the one YHWH and the Elohim, the one Creator is described in a three ways to elevate and glorify his name above all names and any god as:
1. the King
2. the Saviour
3. the LORD of the armies of heavenly beings

Well you can substitute and His redeemer with the redeemer of Israel, but that one is called yahweh of hosts and Jesus is the one and only called Savior and Yahweh of Hosts! sorry but citing one example of a masculine pronoun and forcing it to mean the same here is disingenuous at best. Each time this construct occurs the specific context determines use.

 

[BarneyFife]

It is impossible for finite minds fully to comprehend the character or the works of the Infinite One. To the keenest intellect, the most highly educated mind, that holy Being must ever remain clothed in mystery. “Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?” Job 11:7, 8....

The Word of God, like the character of its divine Author, presents mysteries that can never be fully comprehended by finite beings. The entrance of sin into the world, the incarnation of Christ, regeneration, the resurrection, and many other subjects presented in the Bible, are mysteries too deep for the human mind to explain, or even fully to comprehend. In the natural world we are constantly surrounded with mysteries that we cannot fathom. The very humblest forms of life present a problem that the wisest of philosophers is powerless to explain. Everywhere are wonders beyond our ken. Should we then be surprised to find that in the spiritual world also there are mysteries that we cannot fathom? ...

If the Bible contained no account of God but that which we could easily comprehend; if His greatness and majesty could be grasped by finite minds, then the Bible would not bear the unmistakable credentials of divine authority. The very grandeur and mystery of the themes presented should inspire faith in it as the Word of God.

The Bible unfolds truth with a simplicity and a perfect adaptation to the needs and longings of the human heart, that has astonished and charmed the most highly cultivated minds, while it enables the humblest and uncultured to discern the way of salvation. And yet these simply stated truths lay hold upon subjects so elevated, so far-reaching, so infinitely beyond the power of human comprehension, that we can accept them only because God has declared them. Thus the plan of redemption is laid open to us, so that every soul may see the steps he is to take in repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, in order to be saved in God's appointed way; yet beneath these truths, so easily understood, lie mysteries that are the hiding of His glory—mysteries that overpower the mind in its research, yet inspire the sincere seeker for truth with reverence and faith. The more he searches the Bible, the deeper is his conviction that it is the Word of the living God, and human reason bows before the majesty of divine revelation.

To acknowledge that we cannot fully comprehend the great truths of the Bible is only to admit that the finite mind is inadequate to grasp the infinite; that man, with his limited, human knowledge, cannot understand the purposes of Omniscience....

God intends that even in this life the truths of His Word shall be ever unfolding to His people. There is only one way in which this knowledge can be obtained. We can attain to an understanding of God's Word only through the illumination of that Spirit by which the Word was given.... And the Saviour's promise to His followers was, “When He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.... For He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you.” John 16:13, 14.

 

[Wrangler]

There is no such thing as human logic, only logic.

Thank you for your opinion. :)

You are confusing facts with opinion. Logic is the non-contradictory identification of truth. It is a tool that humans use, but is not any more human than sand.

Not at all. Not in the least. Quite simple, actually. I prefer divinely inspired revelation to the worship of reason.

I'm afraid you are confusing reasoning with morals. God reveals truths & commands to us, not reasoning.

 

[BarneyFife]

You are confusing facts with opinion. Logic is the non-contradictory identification of truth. It is a tool that humans use, but is not any more human than sand.



I'm afraid you are confusing reasoning with morals. God reveals truths & commands to us, not reasoning.

I say something. You misinterpret it. Then you assert something irrelevant. Been there. Done that. Bored stiff with it. Bye for now.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Where can you find in Scripture that the LORD Jesus Christ was a 'spirit' before HE emptied HIMSELF

I am unable to do that David. I guess I never questioned it, so I will state that as far as I know he was a spirit being prior to coming to earth as a human, and returned to his former state when he returned to heaven. That is either fact or fiction sir, you make the choice.