Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[amigo de christo]

I don't recall David purposely sinning out of a willful and conscious decision to abandon God. I do recall a weak David caving into his temptation and then trying to cover it up out of fear. But, nonetheless, had he not repented in humility when confronted with his sin he would be scheduled to be tossed into the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. His refusal to repent would be the rejection of God that would cause him to earn the wages of his sin. You can't have the protection of God whom you have rejected.

And david had a heart for the glorious LORD . A lamb would repent of its wrong doing , not justify it . David repented . exactly .
THE LORD is with the lambs . And known unto GOD are those who are HIS . LEt all who name the name of JESUS
depart from INQUITY . And let the LORD be praised my friend .

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You've heard it argued many times. Just not in a way that is agreeable to you. I'm assuming you're not lying; just misspeaking.

Security is eternal only for those whose faith is eternally fixed on Jesus, and whose life is connected to the one who is our life. Obviously, we can choose to be lost no matter how saved we once were. Everything depends on maintaining the divine connection with the true vine.

Jesus taught the same solemn truth about losing eternal life in the parable of the sower. In explaining the seed which fell among the thorns and the rocks, Jesus said, "Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:12, 13.

There are several things to note about this parable. First, only one class will finally be saved - the ones who brought forth much fruit. The groups represented by the wayside and rocks will not be saved. In verse 12, the wayside hearers did not have a chance to "believe and be saved," but in the next verse the stony ground hearers do "for a while believe." What kind of "believing" is this? According to verse 12, it is the kind that saves. So the ones who believed for a while were saved for a while, but in time of temptation they fell away. Eventually, of course, they were lost along with all the others, except the fruit-bearers. Here is an unequivocal teaching of our Lord that people can have a saving faith for a while, and yet lose it and be lost.

Those who read the record of the Gospels carefully will find repeated authority from Jesus to renounce the doctrine of eternal security. In Luke 12:42-46 Christ described in another parable how a faithful servant could turn into an unfaithful one. After asking, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household . . . ?" Jesus answers His own question: "That servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing . . . he will make him ruler over all that he hath." Then Christ explains how that servant could lose his reward. "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." Verses 45,46.

Here is a perfect example by the Master Teacher as to how a faithful and wise servant can be punished with the unbelievers. Jesus was talking about a man whom He had seen faithful enough to trust with heavy responsibilities. Undoubtedly, this servant represents those who carefully served the Lord as true believers. But what happened? That very faithful servant departed from the path of faithfulness and reaped eternal ruin and death. Does this not also remind us of the words of Hebrews 10:38, "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." The servant in the parable, who was a believer, is now punished with the unbelievers. The faithful can draw back to perdition.

Another parable of Christ spotlights the fact that continued forgiveness is conditional for the believer. The story is found in Matthew 18:21-35, and revolves around the forgiveness of God. A certain king responded to the pleas of his servant and forgave him a large debt. That servant went out and found a fellow servant who owed him a small amount and showed no mercy, throwing him in prison because he could not pay. When the king heard what had happened, he rescinded his cancellation of the large debt and had his servant thrown to the tormentors till he paid in full.

No one can deny the obvious teaching of this parable. Even though God graciously forgives those who apply for it, that forgiveness is not without conditions for the future. We can lose that forgiveness by being unmerciful to others. This is in harmony with the words of the Lord in Ezekiel 33:13, "When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it." The principle is repeated in verse 18, "When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby."

The secret lies in maintaining the righteous relationship with the Source of salvation. Jesus said, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13. No one will be saved finally who does not hold out against a course of deliberate sin in the power of God. Those who do not endure to the end will have their names blotted out of the book of life. Advocates of eternal security deny it could ever happen, but read the frightening possibility for yourself in Revelation 3:5, "He that overcometh . . . I will not blot out his name out of the book of life." The implication is clear that those who are not overcomers - who do not endure to the end - will have their names blotted out.

All these verses are really saying the same thing. Willful sin shatters the relationship by which eternal life is obtained. There is an eternal "if" in every consideration of eternal security. "If we walk in the light . . . the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." 1 John 1:7. "If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father." 1 John 2:24. "If any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." Hebrews 10:38. "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch." John 15:6. "If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." John 8:51. "If thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." Romans 11:22. "If ye do these things, ye shall never fall." 2 Peter 1:10. "For we are made partakers of Christ, If we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end." Hebrews 3:14. "If we endure, we shall also reign with him: If we deny him, he also will deny us." 2 Timothy 2:12 (RSV). "If we sin willfully . . . there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26. "If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15. "Ye are my friends, If ye do whatsoever I command you." John 15:14. "If ye live after the flesh, ye shall die." Romans 8:13.

Here is an argument against your interpretation of a promise.

I hope there was some good stuff in that post.....it was Waaaay too long to read....sorry...

 

[amigo de christo]

The unrighteous person lives in sin as a matter of unrepentant lifestyle. The righteous person does not. He can't, because he has been born of God:

"...let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil... 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:7-10
​

Progressive Hyper Grace theology insists John is wrong about this.

See the first word in this sentence . PROGRESSIVE , ENOUGH SAID . Let none who name the name of JESUS
ever once follow PROGRESSIVE . cause it aint progress its deadly .

 

[amigo de christo]

Follow the glorious Lord and let us be reading our bibles . And let no man be swayed by the heavy deception and deceptions
that are abounding in many places . Just learn those bibles well , learn that JESUS . And let all praise the glorious Lord .

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don't believe you're a college grad. Your writing stinks, your grammar stinks, and so does your reading comprehension. I even highlighted the part that was important in my post and you still missed it, lol. ↓↓↓

You are as judgmental and critical of those you perceive to be legalists as you say they are of you. You are truly a hypocrite. You point with the finger but are guilty of the things you are judgmental and critical about in others. That's being a hypocrite. Somehow the grace of God you're saying I don't have toward the drunk is the grace you do not have toward the legalist. You are in fact a hypocrite. You condemn yourself when you condemn the legalists because you do the same thing you say they do.

All of these Accusations! Lol, let me assure you—- you don’t know the half of it.....indeed , ol’ BB is a rotten person.....just imagine how much MORE rotten I would be if I did not have the Holy Spirit in me !!

How lovely to see that when you have no valid Biblical arguments to make your rancid case, you have to resort to “ ad hominem” attacks.....lol.....we studied that in my Philosophy classes in college.....the colleges where I made Straight “ A” ‘s...... No brag- just fact.....

I only “ point the finger” at those who Add to the Gospel and spread Leaven....just like Paul did....I Rebuke those that preach False , Perverted Gospels That cause people to Fall From Grace....trying to rescue them from possibly going to Hell—— it just depends on what your definition of
“ Falling from Grace” is.....If this makes me a “ hypocrite” , I am in good company with Paul and I can live with that—- quite easily....

I would never sink so low as to call you a “ hypocrite” ......you’re just a Perverter Of The Gospel—- not according to me......I’m Nobody of importance.....Its Paul That has you pegged....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

But it's okay for you to judge the legalist as being unsaved, right? (You do it over and over in your posts.) You are no better than the legalists that you condemn. You are a hypocrite. Or is grace your license to do what you condemn the legalist for doing?

But anyway, I know he's not saved because Paul says he has to repent "so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord." 1 Corinthians 5:5. Your contention is with Paul, not me. If he was saved (or still saved) he would not have to be subjected to Paul's prescription for being saved on the Day of the Lord because he's already saved, as you and your horrible theology insists. Your problem is you just don't believe scripture. Plain and simple. You don't believe Paul, and you don't believe John. Face up to it, friend. There's still time for you to repent of this horrible theology that you've embraced and are leading people astray with.

I maintain that Legalists like you are “ Fallen From Grace”..... I don’t really know if that entails Damnation or not....intelligent people disagree....

It’s one thing to “ fall” for a False Gospel.....it’s another thing to TEACH it ! There is no room for debate in regard to those that go beyond Believing a False Gospel But insist upon Teaching it ! Like you and others in here.....According to Gal1:8, these TEACHERS of False, Perverted Gospels are “ Accursed”. That means Damned .Who in here “ teaches” false additions to the Gospel like “ Lucky Repentance” and refraining from all “ Willful Sins?” It ain’t me.....All I ever proclaim is “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus......Lol.....you have the gall to call me a “ hypocrite ?” You sing that song over and over in your “churches” without ever thinking about it.....if you ever “ did” think about it you would scream out in protest , “ No Way....No Way! It takes way more than the Blood ! It takes me and my Performance ! I am the Co- Savior! Yeah, Jesus was Essential for Salvation, he was just not Adequate —- to say Nothing But The Blood is madness! Give me what I deserve, God!”

Rest assured, God will give you what you “ deserve” for all of your hard work ——- Hell.Remeber that you heard it here when the angels carry you off ......it really * IS* Nothing But The Blood.....stop being the REAL “ hypocrite” here.....tear that song out of your hymnal this coming Sunday.....it will please God....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No.

Just shows you haven’t been listening.

What gets men to heaven is:

1. Repent.
2. Believe the gospel.
3. Be baptized.
4. Sin no more.
5. Endure to the end.

Oh, rest assured......I have “ listened......I listen to Paul—— He said to Believe His Gospel Of Grace...Plus Nothing.

“Sin no more?” That’s laughable.I guess God Chastises those who never sin...God “ does “ Chastise, you know.....who is on the receiving end of the punishment if Christians never sin?

“ Endure to the End?” “ Who is it that Endures but he that Believes that Jesus is the Son Of God”

 

[Grailhunter]

All of these Accusations! Lol, let me assure you—- you don’t know the half of it.....indeed , ol’ BB is a rotten person.....just imagine how rotten I would be if I did not have the Holy Spirit in me !!

How lovely to see that when you have no valid Biblical arguments to make your rancid case, you have to resort to “ ad hominem” attacks.....lol.....we studied that in my Philosophy classes in college.....the colleges where I made Straight “ A” ‘s...... No brag- just fact.....

I only “ point the finger” at those who Add to the Gospel and spread Leaven....just like Paul did....I Rebuke those that preach False , Perverted Gospels That cause people to Fall From Grace....trying to rescue them from possibly going to Hell—— it just depends on what your definition of
“ Falling from Grace” is.....If this makes me a “ hypocrite” , I am in good company with Paul and I can live with that—- quite easily....

I would never sink so low as to call you a “ hypocrite” ......you’re just a Perverter Of The Gospel—- not according to me......I’m Nobody of importance.....Its Paul That has you pegged....

Lots of words...thin and pointless argument. When are you going to start your church of sin and sin some more? What are you going to call it? Scriptures? That is funny! Can you point out the sinful life that Christ and Apostles lead? Ya know they are kind of an example. But I guess you consider them legalist? But you could replace them with a different God that approved of sin and Apostles that were gay and drug users. Change scripture to say...God so loved sin that He gave His only begotten Son? You aught to consider starting your own church and writing your own Bible. You could be popular, the scum bags of the world would love you. Ya know we would not want you to pluck your eye out to keep from sinning...right? You could just change scriptures...like... 1st John 2:2 to ... And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but the whole world that wants to sin all they want and go to heaven. Just think of all the homosexuals and scum bags that would want to go to your church? You could be popular and rich!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The problem is when a person chooses to willfully and deliberately live for the black dog and turn his back on Christ in unbelief. That person will not be saved when Jesus comes back. Unless he repents. If he is allowed to repent. No unbelieving person is saved.

No matter what the guy does .....if he has one hair of that White Dog in Him.....he is Saved....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don't recall David purposely sinning out of a willful and conscious decision to abandon God. I do recall a weak David caving into his temptation and then trying to cover it up out of fear. But, nonetheless, had he not repented in humility when confronted with his sin he would be scheduled to be tossed into the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. His refusal to repent would be the rejection of God that would cause him to earn the wages of his sin. You can't have the protection of God whom you have rejected.

Strange how David decided to Repent at the same exact moment that Nathan callee him out.....he seemed to be getting along just fine until “ his Sin Found Him out”..... I suspect he was sorry because he finally got caught...it’s a moot point.....David was Saved like everybody else was and is.....Faith.....not Repentance in the way that you mean it....if sorrow and regret for sin is the key to Salvation, Judas will be exalted in Heaven as a great guy! All hail Judas! King of the Repenters!

There is a Hall Of Fame for those like David who had great Faith—- even unrepentant rats like Lot!
Where is the “ Repenters Hall Of Fame” in the Bible.....A Hall Of Fame would give a wise man a hint as to what God is looking for....I am sure you would love to see a hall Of Fame for “ Lucky Repenters” ....after all, according to you, the Lucky Repenter is the only man that gets saved.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Lots of words...thin and pointless argument. When are you going to start your church of sin and sin some more? What are you going to call it? Scriptures? That is funny! Can you point out the sinful life that Christ and Apostles lead? Ya know they are kind of an example. But I guess you consider them legalist? But you could replace them with a different God that approved of sin and Apostles that were gay and drug users. Change scripture to say...God so loved sin that He gave His only begotten Son? You aught to consider starting your own church and writing your own Bible. You could be popular, the scum bags of the world would love you. Ya know we would not want you to pluck your eye out to keep from sinning...right? You could just change scriptures...like... 1st John 2:2 to ... And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but the whole world that wants to sin all they want and go to heaven. Just think of all the homosexuals and scum bags that would want to go to your church? You could be popular and rich!

I am like Jesus.....I am a friend to Sinners.....my church would welcome homosexuals and “ scumbags” ....the only people I would have a problem with, once again like Jesus did, is self- Righteous people like you and Ferris Who are like the Pharisees that proclaimed in their damnable prude—- “ I thank my God that I am not like that “ scumbag” over there....”

Jesus was friends with, and made disciples of the biggest “ scumbags” in Israel.....evil tax collectors , whores, etc..

I would say, and Jesus would agree.....bring me every Scumbag Sinner in town ! I got the Cure for their “ scumbagness.....There is a Gift for them ! Jesus died for their sins and then rose from the dead.....their sins have been paid for at the Cross .....this is true for everybody....even if your name is Adolf Hitler! The price has been paid .....all that is left for you to do is to “ cash in” to what has already been accomplished FOR you 2000 years ago! How does one “ Cash In?” With Faith! ......Simply Believe the Gospel...

Jesus said, using Paul as His Mouthpiece, That If you Believed that Jesus died for your sins and if you Believed that He rose from the dead , He would save you.....not ” might” save you....He did not say that you are now on Probation.... He said you are Saved.Nothing was said about repenting of all of your sins before you die.....Nothing was said about the mandatory avoidance of willful sins ( as if you sin by accident) .Jesus Promise has no conditions other than to Believe it.....If you want to Add Conditions to the Gospel Of Pure Grace,feel free to do so.....Join the billions Of others that “ Fall From Grace” and pray that that condition is not the equivalent to Damnation.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How lovely to see that when you have no valid Biblical arguments to make your rancid case, you have to resort to “ ad hominem” attacks.....lol.....we studied that in my Philosophy classes in college.....the colleges where I made Straight “ A” ‘s...... No brag- just fact.....

How did you gloss right over the emboldened part of my post then? You got all judgmental, but if you would have just read and comprehended that part you would not have posted what you did. You passed it right over. How is that an ad hominem attack?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I maintain that Legalists like you are “ Fallen From Grace”.

I do not believe that works earn salvation. I am not a legalist. Discussion if fine, but until you quote me as saying works earn salvation you can not call me a legalist.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s one thing to “ fall” for a False Gospel.....it’s another thing to TEACH it !

You condemn yourself by your own words. You teach against the casting away of grace by the legalist living in his sin in unbelief, but then turn right around and defend the casting away of grace by the Hyper Gracer who lives in his sin in unbelief. You just don't seem to be able to see the hypocrisy of your argument. And like the Pharisee you are all smug and satisfied and self assured in your hypocrisy.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Rest assured, God will give you what you “ deserve” for all of your hard work ——- Hell.Remeber that you heard it here when the angels carry you off ......it really * IS* Nothing But The Blood.

If you really had 'nothing but the blood' you'd have a lifestyle of righteousness to prove it. Having a lifestyle of unrepentant, willful sin shows you do not have 'nothing but the blood', you got 'nothing'. I didn't say this, John did. You do not believe John.

 

[Addy]

When one bans 3 people... the conversation becomes LOVELY... very quiet even... LOL
@BB... Have a good day.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All I ever proclaim is “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus......Lol.....you have the gall to call me a “ hypocrite ?

Yes, because your 'gospel' is like the legalist's gospel. It also constitutes a falling away from grace and into unbelief. And because you condemn and look down your nose at others who are not like you in your belief and behavior. Just as the Pharisees used the scriptures to justify their hateful, judgmental attitude, so you, too, use the scriptures to justify your hateful, judgmental attitude toward the legalist. You are no different than them except your theology falls from grace in the other extreme, the extreme of sin, not works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When one bans 3 people... the conversation becomes LOVELY... very quiet even... LOL
@BB... Have a good day.

Just as long as you keep reading my posts. That's the important thing.

 

[Grailhunter]

the only people I would have a problem with, once again like Jesus did, is self- Righteous people like you and Ferris Who are like the Pharisees that proclaimed in their damnable prude

Out of context! Christ did not have a problem with morality. Oh my!

Jesus was friends with, and made disciples of the biggest “ scumbags” in Israel.....evil tax collectors , whores, etc..

And those that followed Him changed their ways. No one here is saying Christians are perfect but do repent of their sinful lifestyles. Show me the Apostles living a life of sin.

I would say, and Jesus would agree.....bring me every Scumbag Sinner in town ! I got the Cure for their “ scumbagness.

This is the point that everyone for the past year has been trying to get through to you. The cure for sure...they do not remain sick in their sins.

There is a Gift for them ! Jesus died for their sins and then rose from the dead.....their sins have been paid for at the Cross .....this is true for everybody....even if your name is Adolf Hitler!

Their sins were "paid" for but that did not come with a scumbag card....a license to sin.

How does one “ Cash In?” With Faith! ......Simply Believe the Gospel...

That is your problem, you think faith justifies sin. The Gospel....the Good News is not that you can live a sinful lifestyle and be rewarded for it.

Jesus said, using Paul as His Mouthpiece, That If you Believed that Jesus died for your sins and if you Believed that He rose from the dead , He would save you.....not ” might” save you..

You have tunnel vision when it comes to picking the scriptures out that you use to weave your religion.
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Luke 6:46 “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

He said you are Saved. Nothing was said about repenting of all of your sins before you die

Ya there no real plan for Christians to be scumbags after they are saved. But for those sins that do occur....If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Because the scriptures above list the sins that will prevent Christians from inheriting the kingdom of God.

Nothing was said about the mandatory avoidance of willful sins

LOL I know you have read Hebrews...you so funny.

Jesus Promise has no conditions other than to Believe it...

1st John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. Note the "if" If you do not know Him...does the promise apply to you.

1st John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1st John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Note the "if"

John 15:10-11 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. Oops there is another "if"

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Oh, there ya go another "if"


It is not like you do not know these scriptures and it is not that people have not given them to you....it is that they do not mean anything to you.... Don't you think it would be easier to find a god that condones sin or write your own Bible?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No matter what the guy does .....if he has one hair of that White Dog in Him.....he is Saved....

Could you not comprehend my post, again? Living in sin is unbelief (John said this, not me). He does not have "one hair of that white dog in him". No unbeliever has eternal life in him. Only believing people are saved. You do not believe John. ↓↓↓

"...let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil... 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God..." 1 John 3:7-10​

Those who live in sin are of the devil and not of God. Last time I checked those who are 'of the devil' and 'not of God' are not saved. You insist they are, though. Your argument is with John, not me, friend.