Jesus’ Old Testament appearances as God in human form

[Curtis]

Because Jesus is God the word, who left the form of God, to take the form of a man, Philippians 2:6-7, He can transcend time, since time is the fourth dimension and God created the space-time continuum.


Thus in the many instances in the Old Testament where God in the form of a man appears, it’s Jesus - the only manifestation of God in the flesh.


When Jacob wrestled with a man all night long, who touched his body and put a hip out of joint, and renamed him Israel, Jacob named the place Peniel which means, I’ve seen God FACE TO FACE, and lived, that was Jesus - the only manifestation of God as a man, that exists:


Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.


Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.


When God spoke with Moses “ face to face, as a man speaks to s friend” - that also was Jesus


Exo 33:11 And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his minister Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the Tent.


My favorite is Genesis 18:1where the Hebrew states that YHWH appeared to Abraham as a man, with two other men present with Him.


Abraham ends up washing His feet, then has a conversation with YHWH about sparing Sodom from destruction- when negotiations broke down because not even ten righteous were left in Sodom, God destroys Sodom in chapter 19 by raining fire and brimstone on the city, and scripture says that the Jehovah on earth that Abraham met and talked to, rained down fire and brimstone FROM the Jehovah in heaven:


Gen 19:24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;


Jehovah in the form of a man, Jesus, was on earth at the same time Jehovah was in heaven sending down destruction on Sodom.


There are many more examples of Jesus appearing in the Old Testament as God in flesh form.


These are all prima facie evidence that Jesus is in fact God the Word from John 1:1,10, 14 manifest in the flesh, who made many OT appearances.

 

[post]

In the account of Balaam and Balak, Christ stood in the way 3 times with a drawn sword, until He opened Balaam's eyes, and they spoke

Numbers 22:35
And the angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but speak only the word that I tell you." So Balaam went on with the princes of Balak.

Note that Christ explicitly says it is He Himself who will tell Balaam the word to say.

Numbers 23:5
And the LORD put a word in Balaam's mouth and said, "Return to Balak, and thus you shall speak."

It is the LORD God who tells Balaam what to say.

Christ is God

=]

 

[Curtis]

We know

In the account of Balaam and Balak, Christ stood in the way 3 times with a drawn sword, until He opened Balaam's eyes, and they spoke

Numbers 22:35
And the angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but speak only the word that I tell you." So Balaam went on with the princes of Balak.

Note that Christ explicitly says it is He Himself who will tell Balaam the word to say.

Numbers 23:5
And the LORD put a word in Balaam's mouth and said, "Return to Balak, and thus you shall speak."

It is the LORD God who tells Balaam what to say.

Christ is God

=]

We know that the angel of the Lord frequently means God Himself, but Arians insist its only an angel - that’s why I like Genesis 18:1 as an example of Jesus appearing in the OT, because the Hebrew says YHWH appeared in the form of a man, sans the qualifier ‘the angel of YHWH’, the same with Genesis 19 where YHWH on earth destroys Sodom with fire and brimstone from YHWH in heaven.

Then when Jacob wrestled with God in the form of a man, the Hebrew says Elohim was who he wrestled with, not the angel of Elohim.

Maranatha

 

[post]

We know


We know that the angel of the Lord frequently means God Himself, but Arians insist its only an angel - that’s why I like Genesis 18:1 as an example of Jesus appearing in the OT, because the Hebrew says YHWH appeared in the form of a man, sans the qualifier ‘the angel of YHWH’, the same with Genesis 19 where YHWH on earth destroys Sodom with fire and brimstone from YHWH in heaven.

Then when Jacob wrestled with God in the form of a man, the Hebrew says Elohim was who he wrestled with, not the angel of Elohim.

Maranatha

also in Judges 13, foretelling the birth of Samson, He is called 'a Man of God' and 'the LORD' and 'The Angel of the LORD' - and reveals His name to be "Wonderful"
also here He ascends to heaven, which identifies Him as Christ, for He said, 'no one as ascended but He who descended, the Son of Man' ((John 3:13))

 

[Curtis]

also in Judges 13, foretelling the birth of Samson, He is called 'a Man of God' and 'the LORD' and 'The Angel of the LORD' - and reveals His name to be "Wonderful"
also here He ascends to heaven, which identifies Him as Christ, for He said, 'no one as ascended but He who descended, the Son of Man' ((John 3:13))

Just ran into this commentary by accident:

Matthew 18:20

For where two or three ... - This is a general assertion made to support the particular promise made Mat 18:19 to his apostles. He affirms that wherever two or three are assembled together in his name, he is in the midst of them.

In my name - That is,

1. By my authority, acting for me in my church. See Joh 10:25; Joh 16:23.

2. It may mean for my service; in the place of prayer and praise, assembled in obedience to my commend, and with a desire to promote my glory.

There am I in the midst of them - Nothing could more clearly prove that Jesus must be omnipresent, and, of course, be God. Every day, perhaps every hour, two or three, or many more, may be assembled in every city or village in the United States, in England, in Greenland, in Africa, in Ceylon, in the Sandwich Islands, in Russia, and in Judea - in almost every part of the world - and in the midst of them all is Jesus the Saviour. Millions thus at the same time, in every quarter of the globe, worship in his name, and experience the truth of the promise that he is present with them. It is impossible that he should be in all these places and not be God.

 

[post]

Just ran into this commentary by accident:

Matthew 18:20

For where two or three ... - This is a general assertion made to support the particular promise made Mat 18:19 to his apostles. He affirms that wherever two or three are assembled together in his name, he is in the midst of them.

In my name - That is,

1. By my authority, acting for me in my church. See Joh 10:25; Joh 16:23.

2. It may mean for my service; in the place of prayer and praise, assembled in obedience to my commend, and with a desire to promote my glory.

There am I in the midst of them - Nothing could more clearly prove that Jesus must be omnipresent, and, of course, be God. Every day, perhaps every hour, two or three, or many more, may be assembled in every city or village in the United States, in England, in Greenland, in Africa, in Ceylon, in the Sandwich Islands, in Russia, and in Judea - in almost every part of the world - and in the midst of them all is Jesus the Saviour. Millions thus at the same time, in every quarter of the globe, worship in his name, and experience the truth of the promise that he is present with them. It is impossible that he should be in all these places and not be God.

That's beautiful, I never understood this from om that text before

Thank you

 

[Robert Gwin]

Because Jesus is God the word, who left the form of God, to take the form of a man, Philippians 2:6-7, He can transcend time, since time is the fourth dimension and God created the space-time continuum.


Thus in the many instances in the Old Testament where God in the form of a man appears, it’s Jesus - the only manifestation of God in the flesh.


When Jacob wrestled with a man all night long, who touched his body and put a hip out of joint, and renamed him Israel, Jacob named the place Peniel which means, I’ve seen God FACE TO FACE, and lived, that was Jesus - the only manifestation of God as a man, that exists:


Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.


Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.


When God spoke with Moses “ face to face, as a man speaks to s friend” - that also was Jesus


Exo 33:11 And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his minister Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the Tent.


My favorite is Genesis 18:1where the Hebrew states that YHWH appeared to Abraham as a man, with two other men present with Him.


Abraham ends up washing His feet, then has a conversation with YHWH about sparing Sodom from destruction- when negotiations broke down because not even ten righteous were left in Sodom, God destroys Sodom in chapter 19 by raining fire and brimstone on the city, and scripture says that the Jehovah on earth that Abraham met and talked to, rained down fire and brimstone FROM the Jehovah in heaven:


Gen 19:24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;


Jehovah in the form of a man, Jesus, was on earth at the same time Jehovah was in heaven sending down destruction on Sodom.


There are many more examples of Jesus appearing in the Old Testament as God in flesh form.


These are all prima facie evidence that Jesus is in fact God the Word from John 1:1,10, 14 manifest in the flesh, who made many OT appearances.

We too believe that Jesus was sent many times as God's spokesman as well, although the Bible never actually says. We of course do not believe Jesus is Jehovah however, we believe he is actually God's firstborn son Jeremiah 10:10; Mat 16:16. You really don't think that Jesus would try to deceive us do you Curt?

 

[tv1984]

Because Jesus is God the word, who left the form of God, to take the form of a man, Philippians 2:6-7, He can transcend time, since time is the fourth dimension and God created the space-time continuum.


Thus in the many instances in the Old Testament where God in the form of a man appears, it’s Jesus - the only manifestation of God in the flesh.


When Jacob wrestled with a man all night long, who touched his body and put a hip out of joint, and renamed him Israel, Jacob named the place Peniel which means, I’ve seen God FACE TO FACE, and lived, that was Jesus - the only manifestation of God as a man, that exists:


Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.


Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.


When God spoke with Moses “ face to face, as a man speaks to s friend” - that also was Jesus


Exo 33:11 And Jehovah spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his minister Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the Tent.


My favorite is Genesis 18:1where the Hebrew states that YHWH appeared to Abraham as a man, with two other men present with Him.


Abraham ends up washing His feet, then has a conversation with YHWH about sparing Sodom from destruction- when negotiations broke down because not even ten righteous were left in Sodom, God destroys Sodom in chapter 19 by raining fire and brimstone on the city, and scripture says that the Jehovah on earth that Abraham met and talked to, rained down fire and brimstone FROM the Jehovah in heaven:


Gen 19:24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;


Jehovah in the form of a man, Jesus, was on earth at the same time Jehovah was in heaven sending down destruction on Sodom.


There are many more examples of Jesus appearing in the Old Testament as God in flesh form.


These are all prima facie evidence that Jesus is in fact God the Word from John 1:1,10, 14 manifest in the flesh, who made many OT appearances.

Interesting point of view.

I still wonder who it was that walked between the victim pieces when Abram was induced into an ecstasy. The Greek version has an earthen-vessel appearing and a lamp which went between the pieces as Abram was coming out of his ecstasy. I cannot help but envision a priest, or one performing the office of a priest, walking with a censor and an oil-lamp to effect the covenant with Abram. Needless to say, Abram's ecstasy, akin to that of Adam's, brought about a nation, whereas Adam's brought about a woman. At any rate, it must have been his believing in God's promise of this very covenant that was imputed unto him for righteousness.

As much as I can ascertain from certain traditions and customs in the east, if one party should fail their end of the blood-covenant, they were to be parted in two, in order to satisfy the transgression. If the blood-covenant was here represented by a man, however, more exact a priest, it might logically have been Melchi-sedec. But if not, I cannot think of another priest, other than Christ Jesus himself. And this is indeed hard to stipulate, as the text is silent everywhere. I would not be so rash as to discount the divine power of God in his omnipotence and attributes, but on the other hand, angels often ministered to men. They represented the Divine. Jesus Christ himself spoke of the angels.

Therefore, on the authority of Christ Jesus himself, it must have been an angel who represented him, for he was not yet incarnate, and he had to die upon the cross to redeem mankind. Therefore, it could not have been him *physically* in the realm, no, not even an *apparition*, but in the bosom of the Father. Had he the mission to traverse time and space in his incarnate form, he need not as so much die on the cross, for he could have easily circumvented the cup of which he was to drink, and his will was to conform to the Father's in that, to *be* our Saviour, our blessed Redeemer.

Neither should we discount the apostle's proclamation that the patriarchs had an imperfect knowledge of Christ, how they could only make out the silhouette as it were, in a dark glass (obscured mirror). They could not fully comprehend the plan of their salvation. Christ also said that Abraham would have rejoiced to see his day, therefore, had Abram/Abraham never seen him in this realm. All we can surmise is that he was expecting his arrival, in the flesh.

Therefore, upon these few considerations, the theory that Christ traversed the cosmos in time in his incarnate body, or any other, is contra the scriptural accounts. The only other school I can call to mind that held a similar theory to this were the Docetists.

Thanks for reading my post.