UFO changed to UAP

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Oseas

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My point is that science does not teach us truth or even fact, but is just a tool to make sense out of reality and assist us in problem solving.
Scripture on the other hand deals with absolute truths and doesn't exist for the advancement of technology, but for the Revelation of our creator in the person of His Son. The Bible contains history, but its neither a science book or history book, but God's inspired communication of His person to His creation.

True. Good post.

Hebrews 4:v.12-13

12 For the Word of God is quick, and Powerful, and sharper than any twoedged Sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a DISCERNER of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (This is Power; Great mystery really)

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight (the Word is GOD- Great Mystery): but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account.



Is it written in the Bible? Then will fulfill LITERALLY. The Word is GOD. Yeah, great mystery.
 
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Oseas

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Posted by ... to Michaelvpardo
... and still have a legitimate event then it would strongly default to angelic in nature. (Angels are of a higher order and not subject to our physical laws and they have been known to appear in various ways).

Interesting but you've made some assumptions about angelic beings which can't be true. Angel's interact physically with human beings, which means that they have physicality. It also takes them time to move from place to place, another result of being a physical part of creation.
I'm also pretty sure that they couldn't produce offspring with humans without being physical (they aren't God.)

Then you need to read scripture and understand it. Angels can be solid or physical, and mate with humans and produce offspring to name a few. They can also assume forms of people. As far as the linear time it takes them to do something- nowhere in scripture is that addressed so its a baseless assumption.


NOTE
About the above comment saying: "I'm also pretty sure that they couldn't produce offspring with humans without being physical (they aren't God.)[/QUOTE] ---> Be sure that they can. Genesis 6:v.1 to 4

And it came to pass, when MEN began to multiply on the face of the earth, and DAUGHTERS were born unto them, That the sons of God (angels - Luke 20:v.36 -spiritual men) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ... and also after that, when the sons of God(angels) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man (carnal man-animal), for that he also is flesh.



Jude 1:v.6-7- Complete Jewish Bible

6 And the angels that did not keep within their original authority, but abandoned their proper sphere, he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for the Judgment of the Great Day. 7 And S’dom, ‘Amora and the surrounding cities, following a pattern like theirs, committing sexual sins and perversions, lie exposed as a warning of the everlasting fire awaiting those who must undergo punishment.


Jude 1:v.6-7- KJV
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the Judgment of the great day. (This Day arrived, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last Day, or yet seventh and last millennium)
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
 
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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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Speaking of the Big Bang…since I have you and you’re Science Guy: IS it crazy, scientifically speaking, to believe that 1: an explosion could happen when nothing existed in the first place to ignite said explosion, and 2: said explosion of ‘nothing’ could then go on to create everything? How do they even get around that?

This is where even those who "wish" evolution were true realized that the first 4 laws (including zeroth plus the 3) simply made anything except a "creation" impossible and gave birth to the "tweener" concept of "intelligent design" ( whatever that is)

In general terms on #1. "Technically" ( since matter cannot be created or destroyed) there could be no "dark matter" (insert sci fi definition here) there to make anything out of which kinda ends it right there. That's not even accounting that this "alleged" dark matter would be at a zero state (inert) so there could be no external "prime mover" ( spark) to light this fire.

Personally, I have been involved in numerous discussions on this with SME's who take the "other side" and to date not a single one has directly answered this conundrum to my satisfaction. They skirt it. I really cant tell you what "they say" because they wont "say". ( at least never on paper where I could quote it)

#2- IN THEORY ( assuming we get past #1) nothing is "mathematically impossible"- this "explosion" ( defined as a massive influx of energy changing various states) would have to magically transmute all kinds of stuff into all kinds of stuff without destroying it then all that stuff would have to self assemble into something that not only works together as an assembly of parts but with an entire eco system to support it. Then it would have to do it twice ( male and female) so it could perpetuate.

So, as a science proponent I would say its "mathematically" possible but the odds of it happening would make the number of cubic nanometers in the infinite universe look minuscule by comparison. (I wouldn't bet on it)
 
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GaryAnderson

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I was doing some reading on Nephilim after reading a response from a member here and I can see why many Christians believe that these are demonic creatures. Personally I don’t think they’re demonic, but the fact that they’ve been observing us since the stone ages or earlier (ufo paintings depicted in caves by cavemen) does bother me.

Does extraterrestrial life come into a contradiction of your belief system with some of you?
Because to me it won’t change a thing if Aliens land on the White House tomorrow. I’ll still believe in God and Jesus Christ and would love to have a chat with a being from another planet.
 
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Randy Kluth

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You'd be surprised how cooperative people will be when they're starving. Joseph, the son of Jacob, got all of Egypt to sell themselves to Pharaoh for no more than rations of grain. Famines are coming (some are already here.)

Yes, we should pray that all men and women hear of the grace of Christ, which is able to give them confidence in God's ability to provide. He can give us strength in our weakness, and faith where we lack it.
 
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Naomi25

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This is where even those who "wish" evolution were true realized that the first 4 laws (including zeroth plus the 3) simply made anything except a "creation" impossible and gave birth to the "tweener" concept of "intelligent design" ( whatever that is)

In general terms on #1. "Technically" ( since matter cannot be created or destroyed) there could be no "dark matter" (insert sci fi definition here) there to make anything out of which kinda ends it right there. That's not even accounting that this "alleged" dark matter would be at a zero state (inert) so there could be no external "prime mover" ( spark) to light this fire.

Personally, I have been involved in numerous discussions on this with SME's who take the "other side" and to date not a single one has directly answered this conundrum to my satisfaction. They skirt it. I really cant tell you what "they say" because they wont "say". ( at least never on paper where I could quote it)

#2- IN THEORY ( assuming we get past #1) nothing is "mathematically impossible"- this "explosion" ( defined as a massive influx of energy changing various states) would have to magically transmute all kinds of stuff into all kinds of stuff without destroying it then all that stuff would have to self assemble into something that not only works together as an assembly of parts but with an entire eco system to support it. Then it would have to do it twice ( male and female) so it could perpetuate.

So, as a science proponent I would say its "mathematically" possible but the odds of it happening would make the number of cubic nanometers in the infinite universe look minuscule by comparison. (I wouldn't bet on it)
Thank you for your reply! I can’t…and probably shouldn’t…even try to pretend I understood most of it.
I’m just glad that there are Christian people who can and who speak on the subject.
 

Naomi25

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There was a man named William Cooper who was very much interested in conspiracy theories because of things that he'd witnessed while in the Navy back during the Kennedy administration. He wrote a book called "Behold, a pale horse" that covered his ideas on most of the popular conspiracy theories of the time and he saw them as all connected. He was careful to provide a large appendix of source material, some of which was as dubious as the average supermarket tabloid, or as solid as a Senate appropriations sub committee brief on a grant application.
His conclusions were startling because he was unable to discern if the phenomena were real and being covered up, or manufactured to manipulate the public consciousness, but he was absolutely convinced that something real was happening that was more than simple fantasy or delusion.
He died violently some time ago, shot dead on his own property by law enforcement officers while attempting to chase trespassers off ( I assume that he was armed when shot,)
In ancient Greece and Rome, the builders of temples often included special echo chambers and hidden furnaces to produce unusual smoke, mists, sounds, etc. In order to decieve visitors into believing these were supernatural phenomena associated with the temple's god. People have never been shy about using deception to bolster religious authority or governmental power, so there's no reason to assume anything has changed other than the technology behind the deceptions.
We're already capable of creating static electrical discharges, basically artificial lightning on a small scale. I've pondered a means by which we could conceivably direct those discharges by using laser energy to ionize the air in narrow beams, creating the path the discharge will follow. Such a directed energy weapon, with a powerful enough source could be used to "call down fire from the skies" and a similar concept was explicitly used in a popular comedy film called "real genius."
If you can imagine something and the technology exists to do it, then someone will try. I'm pretty sure that's what the tower of Babel story is all about in Genesis.
And the Lord said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. Genesis 11:6
So…you believe that the Governments, or institutions, of the world have a purpose in perpetrating an alien hoax, for want of a better term, on the world? That the things being seen are but advanced tech that are for that purpose, whatever it might be?
That could very well be it…I have no real view on which it might be, which is why I watch with caution.
 
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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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So…you believe that the Governments, or institutions, of the world have a purpose in perpetrating an alien hoax, for want of a better term, on the world? That the things being seen are but advanced tech that are for that purpose, whatever it might be?
That could very well be it…I have no real view on which it might be, which is why I watch with caution.

Without going into detail of my own history, I can say with 100% absolute certainty of things like this.

In general intel and psy-ops, grey/white/black propaganda is normal. Something like an "alien story" ( insert details here) could be used to mask military operations, any number of medical ones or to "explain away" anything. They also can be used long term to influence beliefs and change perceptions.

They already know "people" will take a baseline story and then modify it through their own personal lens and let it mutate and said story will soon become the "truth" that all things are measured against.

Its been used in all kinds of flavors with devastating effectiveness globally.

This is an ancient technique- nothing new.
 

GaryAnderson

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This is an ancient technique- nothing new.

Rreally? How do you explain UFO cave paintings by stone-age men?

nuova_66.jpg
 
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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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Rreally? How do you explain UFO cave paintings by stone-age men?

You might want to read everything a lot more carefully before you go off half cocked as you seem to do repeatedly.

The "ancient technique" i was referring to in the post you quoted was governments using various psychological operations ( UFO stuff simply being the specific example on the discussion table) such as disinformation, false flags, defeat in detail methods, propaganda in all forms, creating false enemies and so forth to foster various agendas or accomplish other things.

I was pointing out that such things were nothing new.

To your post

One explanation is these are "objects" primitive people painted that WE (not they) are interpreting as UFO's with nothing but circumstantial evidence.

Another is they are "drug induced" or could be a cave era comic strip

Another is they are legitimate alien spacecraft

Another is they are demonic events designed to chip away at the faith

Another is that they are frauds

There is an equal amount of "legitimate" evidence to shore up any one of those as any other.

Which do you like the best or do you have another theory?

Was my explanation adequate enough?
 

GaryAnderson

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I know exactly what you meant by ancient techniques of military which is why I asked you for pre-military events where cave men painted what they saw.
Thank you for your answer.
I agree with all those explanations.

The key takeaway here is that these events have existed before our modern world so we shouldn’t have our frame of reference into The Now but more broadly throughout history.
 
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Truman

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UFO changed to UAP...must have some kind of shape-shifting technology!
About a month ago, I sat in the backyard of my step-son, his wife, and 2 friends that I had just met. One was the son of a popular pastor in my town. We sat around a fire under a clear, moonlit night. It was beautiful. The Lord sure knows His stuff!
Sitting beside the pastor's son, I related how the Lord had told me many years ago that I was a Levite. About how He'd led me to watch a video that began in northern Israel 2700 years ago and how it ended in Normandy 600 years ago.
About how I then remembered that my family tree ended in Normandy 600 years ago. About how I felt the fulness, peace, and knowing of the Holy Spirit confirming to me that yes, I was descended from Israel. Wide-eyed, he said, "Wow!"
I then played my newest song for him, which speaks of our future journey to the New Jerusalem. I sang the last part of the song, which is about a near-death-experience I had, where I went to the New Jerusalem and saw Jesus, face-to-face. What a beautiful face!
While in a coma from a rare reaction to an anti-nausea drug, which at the time was speculated that due to the recent deaths of my parents, was a suicide attempt, or perhaps drug abuse, his father had prayed for me. They seem like really nice people.
Anyway, this poor guy must've been wondering if I was stark-raving mad.
He played a song and then the peace of God had us all laying back in our chairs, looking up at the night sky. I then saw 3 stars slowly moving forward, in a triangle formation.
"Hey, look at that," someone shouted, and we all did. When they were almost directly overhead, one by one, they started blinking and disappeared. I've seen many similar videos on You Tube.
Later, as we left, the other guy kept his distance from me and had a look on his face of serious distrust when talking to me. Lol
We are living in extra-ordinary times! :)
 
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Mantis

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I am wondering if they are not demonic at all but angels. I was watching a tv show where they were talking about how ufo’s had, at various times hovered above nuclear facilities and missile silos in the United States and shut them down for a short period of time. As if to stop any nuclear launches or to let us know they can shut it down. It was almost like they are concerned that we will use these weapons. Why would the demonic care if we blow each other up?
 
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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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I am wondering if they are not demonic at all but angels.

Demons are angels, just FYI. Demons hate God and want us destroyed right along with them and they don't care how or how many as long as its all eventually.

Angels of the lord do nothing except under direct instruction of the Lord and he is not the author of confusion and whatever they do directly bears witness.

Beings ( assuming real ones) just floating around doing stuff and things for the camera are not conducting business of the Lord.
 

GaryAnderson

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@Mantis i’m aware of that incident too. Honestly they’ve been observing us for millennia so I don’t know what to make of them. It’s only until I read the term Niphilim in this forum that I understood the point of view of many Christians that they are daemons.
Personally I don’t believe they’re daemons because they won’t change a thing about my belief in God/Jesus but it would be fascinating to make contact with an extra terrestrial being and ask them all the fundamental life questions that we ask here.
 

Mantis

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@Mantis i’m aware of that incident too. Honestly they’ve been observing us for millennia so I don’t know what to make of them. It’s only until I read the term Niphilim in this forum that I understood the point of view of many Christians that they are daemons.
Personally I don’t believe they’re daemons because they won’t change a thing about my belief in God/Jesus but it would be fascinating to make contact with an extra terrestrial being and ask them all the fundamental life questions that we ask here.
The watchers...
 
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michaelvpardo

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So…you believe that the Governments, or institutions, of the world have a purpose in perpetrating an alien hoax, for want of a better term, on the world? That the things being seen are but advanced tech that are for that purpose, whatever it might be?
That could very well be it…I have no real view on which it might be, which is why I watch with caution.
No, I know Satan has been perpetrating hoaxes since the beginning and government is the primary mover of the system of this world. Eg. The Spanish American war was initiated by the US scuttling one of our own ships.
Just reading declassified documents on CIA activity gives a pretty clear picture (but who does that?)
Do you know who Ollie North is and why he became a well known celebrity?
Ever heard of Che Guevara? If you did, did you know it was US government "advisors" that tracked him down?
Ever heard of general Manuel Noriega? His government was our friend, until it wasn't (too much negative publicity.)
Populations are generally controlled by fear (although righteous indignation, even if its self righteous, is a strong motivator.)
The last year and a half are proof of that (fear could be based upon real threats or imagined ones.)
 

Naomi25

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No, I know Satan has been perpetrating hoaxes since the beginning and government is the primary mover of the system of this world. Eg. The Spanish American war was initiated by the US scuttling one of our own ships.
Just reading declassified documents on CIA activity gives a pretty clear picture (but who does that?)
Do you know who Ollie North is and why he became a well known celebrity?
Ever heard of Che Guevara? If you did, did you know it was US government "advisors" that tracked him down?
Ever heard of general Manuel Noriega? His government was our friend, until it wasn't (too much negative publicity.)
Populations are generally controlled by fear (although righteous indignation, even if its self righteous, is a strong motivator.)
The last year and a half are proof of that (fear could be based upon real threats or imagined ones.)
Can’t say that I’ve heard of any of those, sorry…but I don’t tend to dig into these sorts of subjects. I can say that I’m not at all surprised that Goverments control their populations by fear. I am, a little…surprised at how…readily the peoples of the world have handed over their rights so quickly in the face of this pandemic. Being cautious, and caring for others is something I think we should all do…but here in Australia, we’re basically under martial law. I’m a good 6 hours away from the nearest case of Covid…and yet I can only leave my house for ‘essential’ purposes and then I must wear a mask. Seems a little foolish.
 

michaelvpardo

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Can’t say that I’ve heard of any of those, sorry…but I don’t tend to dig into these sorts of subjects. I can say that I’m not at all surprised that Goverments control their populations by fear. I am, a little…surprised at how…readily the peoples of the world have handed over their rights so quickly in the face of this pandemic. Being cautious, and caring for others is something I think we should all do…but here in Australia, we’re basically under martial law. I’m a good 6 hours away from the nearest case of Covid…and yet I can only leave my house for ‘essential’ purposes and then I must wear a mask. Seems a little foolish.
I hadn't noticed that you live in Australia so I'm not surprised that you're unfamiliar with my government's covert misadventures. I'm not a historian, but have always been interested in history to the extent that it reveals human nature and tends to repeat itself.

Our government had issued lock down orders early in 2020, but law enforcement was hesitant to enforce them. I don't have a laundry in my house (and I'm retired) so I was out driving into town a few times a week doing laundry and food shopping, yet no one stopped me or questioned why I was out. However nothing much was open except a few businesses deemed essential (like the laundromat. )

Throughout the pandemic our government has used "experts" to warn of the dangers of the virus, but the media outlets have consistently filtered, misinterpreted, or ignored the experts to use fear politically and influence the last presidential election. Unfortunately, our "experts" under government employment were never entirely honest as it could cost them and in some cases take them out of the spotlight. Those of us educated in the sciences recognized that the "experts" were being pressured and disingenuous about the information released through government sources and so began the misinformation war, also politically driven.

In the US we still have a majority of citizens that consider themselves Christian and the signs of the times are making it difficult to maintain the attitude that Christ's return is in some distant future and not imminent.

Our government has been actively promoting a narrative to our population for over half a century, pretending first that the US was the defender of the free world and then taking on the role of "liberator " of oppressed nations (with useful natural resources.)

As a consequence, the far right has been predisposed to resist any restrictions on freedom and personal liberty, while the far left has been predisposed to believe in their own moral authority as liberators and movers of social change.

I'm convinced that the principle of "divide and conquer " is written into two party political systems as a means of control over the population, but that begs the questions why and by who?

My interest in history and specifically the truth regarding my own nation motivated me to read a lot of books about our hidden history, those things Christians tend not to be proud of and are notably absent from most public school text books. The advocates of critical race theory want our public schools to include education that reveals the darker aspects of our history, but the opponents are violently opposed to the curriculum because it confuses class privilege with race privilege and emphasizes a false narrative based upon a false distinction, that of race.

Biologically, while there are many nations and peoples, many ethnicities, there is only one race. Teaching kids that race is the ultimate cause of social and economic disparity is not only inherently false but can only increase the ethnic divide, a political trick used by Adolf Hitler in his rise to absolute power in Nazi Germany.

Divide and conquer is a very effective means of warfare, and misinformation applied to the principle has been used politically for as long as journalism has existed. You don't hear journalists taking credit for their role in the rise of Adolf Hitler and in the US its anathema to label journalists propagandists because of their self appointed role as arbiters of societal truth, but by the end of the Viet Nam war our military command and civilian leadership understood that whoever controls the narrative, controls public perception of events.

We don't have "state media" in the US to push a single government agenda, but private media ownership also allows partisan political control of the dissemination of "news" and a great deal of content filtering to support false political narratives.

My own perception of Satan's work through government may be inaccurate, my analysis may be flawed, but students of history who place the truth above national pride are always more informed than the general public in their own nation, simply because histories are usually preserved by the victors of war and sanitized to create national pride and unity.

No government wants to be percieved as evil by it's own population, but no government exists outside of the corrupt system of this world except the kingdom of God, and government remains a necessity as long as sin persists in the hearts of men. Self rule is anarchy and democracy is no more than rule by popular consensus.

Sorry for unloading so much personal analysis on you, but the Bible shapes my perception of the world more than the world alters my perception of the Bible and I've learned to trust its veracity, even before I learned to trust its inspiration.
 
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Timtofly

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Then you need to read scripture and understand it. Angels can be solid or physical, and mate with humans and produce offspring to name a few. They can also assume forms of people. As far as the linear time it takes them to do something- nowhere in scripture is that addressed so its a baseless assumption.
No where in Scripture does it ever state angels and humans produced offspring. No where.