The Millennial Kingdom

[Curtis]

Roman's 11 speaks directly of the (Remnant Elect Jew) That have been chosen to salvation through God's "Foreknowledge", just as all that have been called and chosen to salvation

As Roman's 11:7 "Clearly States" only the (Remnant Elect Jew) will be saved and "Added" to the Church, the rest are blinded, it's that simple

Romans 11:2-7KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The Roman church is a gentile church - Romans is a letter Paul wrote to them, not to Jews.

Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords spiritual realm, your claim it's on this earth is laughable

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

im not going to spend hours trying to straighten out your many eschatology errors, so you can believe what you want.

 

[Curtis]

premillennialism and the early church

The church was premillennial for 300 years


Premillennialism or chiliasm as it was called in the early church, was the pervasive view of the earliest orthodox fathers. This is the consensus of both liberal and conservative scholars who are experts in early Church theology. J. N. D. Kelly, acknowledged internationally as an authority on patristic Christian thought, is typical of the scholarly opinion on this question and notes that the early Church was chiliasti or millenarian in her eschatology. Speaking of the eschatology of the second century he observes,
The clash with Judaism and paganism made it imperative to set out the bases of the revealed dogmas more thoroughly. The Gnostic tendency to dissolve Christian eschatology into the myth of the soul's upward ascent and return to God had to be resisted. On the other hand millenarianism, or the theory that the returned Christ would reign on earth for a thousand years, came to find increasing support among Christian teachers. . . . This millenarian, or 'chiliastic', doctrine was widely popular at this time.13
Kelly asserts further that premillennialism or chiliasm was dominate through the middle of the third century by observing the following: “The great theologians who followed the Apologists, Irenaeus, Tertullian and Hippolytus, were primarily concerned to defend the traditional eschatological scheme against Gnosticism. . . . They are all exponents of millenarianism.”14 Still another historian says,
Primitive Christianity was marked by great chiliastic enthusiasm, . . . By chiliasm, strictly speaking, is meant the belief that Christ was to return to earth and reign visibly for one thousand years. That return was commonly placed in the immediate future.15
Premillennialism was not contradicted by a single orthodox church father until the beginning of the third century, when Gaius (Caius) first launched an attack. Gaius is the first one in recorded church history who interpreted the thousand years symbolically. Additionally, he also rejected the Book of Revelation, holding that it was written by Cerinthus and should not be in the canon.16 But even with Gaius' appearance, premillennialism was still very much the eschatology of the day.

Evidence for premillennialism:

Consistent literal interpretation
• Unconditional nature of the covenants (Abrahamic)
• The Abrahamic Covenant
• The Old Testament teaches a literal earthly kingdom
• The kingdom is carried unchanged into the New Testament
• Christ also supports an earth kingdom
• There are multiple resurrections in Scripture
• Revelation 20 teaches premillennialism
• The early church was premillennial
• The failure of amillennialism and postmillennialism
• Premillennialism harmonizes the entire Bible
• Only premillennialism provides a satisfactory conclusion to history

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Israel is the Church , always has been .

That is Replacement Theology and wrong. That thinking has led to Anti-Semitism throughout history. "Those who bless them will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed." Be careful!
Try studying Rom. 11, it shows a distinction between the Church and the remnant Israel that will be grafted in and saved during the Great Tribulation. The gentiles were grafted in to the vine. Branches were cut off so that we could be. But make no mistake, God is not done with Israel and I am talking about the Jews who are from the bloodline of the 12 tribes of Israel - God knows their generations, who they are. There are covenants yet to be fulfilled.
Revelation 7 & 14 literally states 144k male virgins will be chosen and those for a specific task. Eschatology as a whole centers around Jerusalem, all Biblical history does. The state of Israel, home of the Jews will be attacked by many nations that surround them. Much of Revelation is judgment on the world but a testing for the Jews as well.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Roman church is a gentile church - Romans is a letter Paul wrote to them, not to Jews.

im not going to spend hours trying to straighten out your many eschatology errors, so you can believe what you want.

The scripture below is speaking directly of the (Remnant Elect Jew) who you kidding, not me

Roman's 11 speaks directly of the (Remnant Elect Jew) That have been chosen to salvation through God's "Foreknowledge", just as all that have been called and chosen to salvation

As Roman's 11:7 "Clearly States" only the (Remnant Elect Jew) will be saved and "Added" to the Church, the rest are blinded, it's that simple

Romans 11:2-7KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

 

[Iconoclast]

Preterism is incorrect, be it full, partial, or any other type.

Hello Curtis,
Come on over, did not want to derail this thread so I started another on Partial preterism.
Even if you believe to to be mistaken offer your correction and gain a perspective of why others see the same verses different than you.
I see you have a wrong view of biblical foreknowledge also.We can fix it.

 

[marks]

Because that whole text is talking about the first advent and is full of symbolism.

Is it? Isn't that the question itself?

Didn't the animals exist together in harmony at the beginning? Should we be so surprised to find a restoration to be part of God's plan? And in particular during the kingdom reign of Christ? As the Last Adam sits on the throne? This makes a lot of sense to me.

Much love!

 

[Curtis]

By all means, give your interpretation of verse 6 below, and the two Israel's seen in bold red, waiting?

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 9:6-8 is obviously talking about the Arabs, who’s genealogy is also from Abraham, but is through Hagar and Ishmael - who claim to be children of the covenant promise made to Abraham - but are not the covenant nation of Israel, because the covenant descendants are only from Abraham, Sarah, and Isaac.

 

[Curtis]

Hello Curtis,
Come on over, did not want to derail this thread so I started another on Partial preterism.
Even if you believe to to be mistaken offer your correction and gain a perspective of why others see the same verses different than you.
I see you have a wrong view of biblical foreknowledge also.We can fix it.

You can’t fix what ain’t broke, as the saying goes.

 

[Curtis]

The scripture below is speaking directly of the (Remnant Elect Jew) who you kidding, not me

Roman's 11 speaks directly of the (Remnant Elect Jew) That have been chosen to salvation through God's "Foreknowledge", just as all that have been called and chosen to salvation

As Roman's 11:7 "Clearly States" only the (Remnant Elect Jew) will be saved and "Added" to the Church, the rest are blinded, it's that simple

Romans 11:2-7KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Try again. You missed the part where all Israel will be saved, after they see the deliverer (guess who that is) come out of Zion ( guess where that is, and when that is).

Israel is blinded in part UNTIL the fulness of the gentiles comes in.

The end of the age of the gentiles comes with the mid trib rapture that Matthew, Mark, and Luke show occurs right after the AOD/SOP event which is mid 70th week, per Daniel.

 

[n2thelight]

That is Replacement Theology and wrong. That thinking has led to Anti-Semitism throughout history. "Those who bless them will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed." Be careful!
Try studying Rom. 11, it shows a distinction between the Church and the remnant Israel that will be grafted in and saved during the Great Tribulation. The gentiles were grafted in to the vine. Branches were cut off so that we could be. But make no mistake, God is not done with Israel and I am talking about the Jews who are from the bloodline of the 12 tribes of Israel - God knows their generations, who they are. There are covenants yet to be fulfilled.
Revelation 7 & 14 literally states 144k male virgins will be chosen and those for a specific task. Eschatology as a whole centers around Jerusalem, all Biblical history does. The state of Israel, home of the Jews will be attacked by many nations that surround them. Much of Revelation is judgment on the world but a testing for the Jews as well.

Not replacement, is Christ not the Israel of God

What you mean not done with Israel, if you don't believe in Christ you are NOT Israel ,don't give a hoot if you can trace your bloodline all the way back to Adam

Those people in that nation state of Israel today that don't believe in Christ are of their father the devil ,and it's him that they are waiting for

Two baskets of figs returned in that prophecy

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 11:v.1-3 and 6 and 15-18

1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The Word is GOD.

 

[Curtis]

Not replacement, is Christ not the Israel of God

What you mean not done with Israel, if you don't believe in Christ you are NOT Israel ,don't give a hoot if you can trace your bloodline all the way back to Adam

Those people in that nation state of Israel today that don't believe in Christ are of their father the devil ,and it's him that they are waiting for

Two baskets of figs returned in that prophecy

Try reading Romans 11. They are ungodly and blinded in part UNTIL the age of the gentiles is over, and they see Jesus coming out of Zion then ALL of Israel alive at that time WILL BE SAVED (because they realize Jesus is their real Messiah)

Israel is like a prodigal son nation, temporarily.

 

[Oseas]

THE BEAST OF THE EARTH - THE SECOND MAN BEAST
Revelation 13:v.11-18

The Man Beast of the earth (earth is Israel, the clay, the dry land) he has two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon-Rev.13:v.11. (In fact, a false lamb, a false messiah-John 5:v.43-, this Man Beast is an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and SPIRITIST messiah, future ruler of Israel and guide of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism, actually AN IMPOSTOR). 12 And he (will)exerciseth all the power of the first (Man)Beast before him, and causeth the earth(Israel) and them which dwell therein to worship the first Man Beast... (in LITERAL FULFILLMENT of 2Thessalonians 2:v.11-12 - strong delusion. Remember: The Man Beast of the earth -the Dragon and false messiah-, will give to the Beast of sea his Power, and his Throne, and great Authority-Rev. 13:v.2-because the Beast of sea will be wounded to death by the Sword from now on, by the way a sharp Sword.


NOTE
The Man Beast of the earth was born decades ago,and MUST manifest himself in very near future.
Then there will be TWO strong and powerful satanic Beasts on the Earth-the Planet Earth.
Isaiah 10:v.22-23
22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

Revelation 7:v.1-4
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

WAR IN HEAVEN
Revelation 12:v.7 to 9
7 And there was war in heaven(Yes, there will be WAR here in heaven-Ephesians 1:v.3 and Philippians 3:v.20-21 and has already started):Michael and his messengers(the true Christians)fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his messengers-2 Cor.11: v.13 to 15- ;
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers-2 Cor.11: v.13 to 15- were (will be) cast out with him.

Ephesians 6:v.11-12
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the Devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places - in heaven-Ephesians 1:v.3.

 

[n2thelight]

\45434735\

Try reading Romans 11. They are ungodly and blinded in part UNTIL the age of the gentiles is over, and they see Jesus coming out of Zion then ALL of Israel alive at that time WILL BE SAVED (because they realize Jesus is their real Messiah)

Israel is like a prodigal son nation, temporarily.

That nation there is Judah ,and yes anybody that comes to Christ will be saved ,but not just because .

If they wait until they see Christ ,it's to late ,they like all others not in Christ or died in Christ before His return are dead(spiritually) during the millennium meaning they can die the 2nd death

They will be tested again when satan is released after the milennium

 

[n2thelight]

@Curtis

I mean for real, do you actually think they or anybody else for that matter can wait to just see Christ and be saved ?
Not happening !!

 

[n2thelight]

Another question do you think Christ will have two sets of people Israel and the Church ?

 

[n2thelight]

Christ is the Head of the Church and He's also Israel so can one please tell me how Israel has not always been the Church ?

 

[Curtis]

@Curtis

I mean for real, do you actually think they or anybody else for that matter can wait to just see Christ and be saved ?
Not happening !!

It’s clear from scripture that after Israel sees Jesus coming on the clouds, Revelation 1:7, and sees Him coming out of Zion, after saving Jerusalem from destruction in Zechariah 14, that all Israel alive at that time will be saved, and it’s obvious that the way they are saved is by realizing Jesus is the real Messiah, and they believe in Him, and thus are saved.

The Mystery of Israel's Salvation

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion (Jerusalem) the Deliverer(Jesus) , and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Not replacement, is Christ not the Israel of Go

Christ is God, not Israel.
Israel was Jacob and his biological descendants are the chosen nation called Israel.
"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed."
Gen. 32:28

Those people in that nation state of Israel today that don't believe in Christ are of their father the devil ,and it's him that they are waiting for

According to the information given in the OP, you are wrong. A remnant Jesus population will be saved.

 

[Truth7t7]

Romans 9:6-8 is obviously talking about the Arabs, who’s genealogy is also from Abraham, but is through Hagar and Ishmael - who claim to be children of the covenant promise made to Abraham - but are not the covenant nation of Israel, because the covenant descendants are only from Abraham, Sarah, and Isaac.

Big Smiles, The Scripture Is Clearly Talking About Israel Of The Flesh (Jews) Not Arabs As You Claim

I Give You 10 Points On That Claim, Its A New One

The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

Two Israel's Are Seen Below, (1.) Israel Of The Flesh (Jews) And (2.) Israel The Church, Children Of The Promised Seed

Israel Of The Flesh, These Are Not The Children Of God, Plain, Simple, Easy To Understand

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.