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Ferris Bueller

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cos it’s not a bible study it’s a COVENANT
You don't realize that church for us is not a time to put yourself into covenant with God through an outward observance because you don't know that believers are already in covenant with God through the body of Christ, and so we don't have to perform rituals to be in a covenant with God that we are already in!

Of course, you're going to argue that the taking of the Communion elements that Christ commanded us to partake of is evidence that we are not already in covenant with God and have to do that (just like in the old covenant) to be in covenant with God. But you fail to recognize that Christ said that is a commemoration of what has already been completed for the believer through Christ himself when he presented his own blood on the altar in heaven when he ascended into heaven. You don't take communion to establish that which has already been established for you through your faith in what Christ did 2000 years ago and which was applied to you totally and completely the moment you believed.
 
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Iconoclast

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WHAT MATTERS HERE IS WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS.
Adam knew Eve and she conceived.

Cain knew his wife...and she conceived.

See the pattern here..
Joseph KNEW NOT Mary....Until the birth of Jesus...Are you going to suggest now that it means he did not know who she was???
 

Iconoclast

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Just as the Pharisees built a false, misguided, man-made religious system around the old covenant, so the Catholics built a false, misguided, man-made religious system around the new covenant.
The unbiblical altar in the RC. Church mimics the OT. Tabernacle....the priest going beyond the vail???Our Lord did this once for all time never to be repeated.
 
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theefaith

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Once again you prefer not to respond to the post about Mary having more children after Jesus was born.
All you respond with is "attack on Christ" etc.
A discussion with you is totally useless.
You are blinded by what Rome teaches and disregard the Bible.
Talking to you is like talking to a troller.

Sorry not troll only biblical teaching

no Mary is a perpetual Virgin scripture says so in clear terms

bothers of Jesus do not mean children of Mary
Jacob has 12 sons all brothers
But four different mothers

so the these are cousins as Hebrew culture calls any close relative a brother
Lot and Abraham are called brothers but actually uncle and nephew

there is no contradiction between what the holy church teaches and scripture the church wrote the New Testament
 

theefaith

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Faith does that all by itself.

"He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith." Acts 15:9​

Water baptism is a good time for that to happen. If you present the gospel that way, like they did in the very beginning, it can happen that way.

ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I (God) sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
 

Ferris Bueller

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ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I (God) sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Already done for the believer by the word of God (John 13:10). You need to get out of the old covenant symbols and the need for them to be in covenant with God and into the realities of the New Covenant which they represented.
 

theefaith

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1) Not everything you consider an attack is an attack, and 2) the church is not defined by being a member of the Catholic church. Church membership is defined by saving faith in God. Christ is the architect and builder of the church, not the Catholics. I don't think Catholics are even co-laborers in that work. Like the Pharisees of the old covenant, the Catholics draw people away from the very truth they are sure they are guiding people to.

Christ only builds the church on the apostles


What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments




Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
 

theefaith

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The outward sign of being in covenant with God is Sabbath Rest from sin and the setting aside of the flesh from the heart in spiritual circumcision. These two observances are specifically pegged in the old covenant as the signs that you are in covenant with God. And just as all the other observances are understood in this New Covenant in regard to the spiritual reality they represented, so Sabbath Rest and circumcision are also understood in regard to their spiritual realities—the putting off of the flesh. And so they remain the sign observances that they were in old covenant, just in the new way of the spiritual realities the old represented.

Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Thru the sacraments!
 

theefaith

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You don't realize that church for us is not a time to put yourself into covenant with God through an outward observance because you don't know that believers are already in covenant with God through the body of Christ, and so we don't have to perform rituals to be in a covenant with God that we are already in!

Of course, you're going to argue that the taking of the Communion elements that Christ commanded us to partake of is evidence that we are not already in covenant with God and have to do that (just like in the old covenant) to be in covenant with God. But you fail to recognize that Christ said that is a commemoration of what has already been completed for the believer through Christ himself when he presented his own blood on the altar in heaven when he ascended into heaven. You don't take communion to establish that which has already been established for you through your faith in what Christ did 2000 years ago and which was applied to you totally and completely the moment you believed.

you need to be in union with the mediator to be in the covenant partaking of the graces


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

theefaith

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Already done for the believer by the word of God (John 13:10). You need to get out of the old covenant symbols and the need for them to be in covenant with God and into the realities of the New Covenant which they represented.

“Faith alone” is spiritual anarchy

The church is required for salvation

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

faith alone is a condemned heresy by the holy church thru the apostolic council with the authority of Christ Matt 16:18
Bound on earth and in heaven forever!!!
 

Ferris Bueller

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“Faith alone” is spiritual anarchy
I think you have 'faith alone' and 'justification apart from works' confused. They are different arguments. Justification occurs apart from works. The Catholic church says that is not true. It says you have to perform rituals, over and over again, to be made righteous.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
If you think this means you are justified by the work of baptism, or any other ritual/ sacrament you have 'another' gospel. A false gospel. One that can not save.

And if you think not having to perform works to earn justification/salvation is 'faith alone' you have a very serious misunderstanding of scripture.
 

Ferris Bueller

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faith alone is a condemned heresy
No it's not. You just don't know what the 'faith alone' teaching in the Bible actually is. And it surely does not mean or equate to 'justification apart from works'. Your infallible church leadership has mislead millions, if not billions of people about justification.
 

Ferris Bueller

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you need to be in union with the mediator to be in the covenant
Already done, completely, perfectly, and forever for the believing person the moment they start believing. The Catholic Church is all about trying to do, over and over again, through rituals what has already been accomplished one time for all time for a person the moment they trust in Christ. Your doctrine is pure blasphemy. You are no better off serving your Catholic beliefs than the Jews are serving their old covenant beliefs. You both are working rituals, over and over again, to earn a justification that true believers in Christ's work on the cross gives them one time for all time the moment they believe. You are not at Rest in Christ. You have yet to enter into Sabbath Rest in the finished work of Christ. You're still working your own work of justification/righteousness.