Jesus is Lord of lords.
This means God's Authority of Law over all other laws, and Universal Justice that governs over all other laws seeking justice.
Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts
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This means God's Authority of Law over all other laws, and Universal Justice that governs over all other laws seeking justice.
Jesus was WITH God the Father/Jehovah in Heaven.
Jesus is the Son of God, distinct from God the Father, while the Son and Father are ONE.
John 10:29-30
JW are part of the Righteous Gentiles.
They follow the laws in the Bible by conscience, through Christ indirectly.
There are the JW who received Jesus and became awake and conscious of the difference who are working to change things from the inside by consensus.
They are more like a political party that has rules inhouse that all members follow.
They do not follow the "Trinity" teaching but reject it. The JW I interacted with had no issue with John 10:29-30 and the Scripture naming the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
They just reject the dogmatic confusion over the Trinity that they confirm is not stated that way in the Bible.
(The JW have their own dialect for Jesus/Holy Spirit that is equally confusing and wrong to others. But as long as they stay consistent, we can still translate and communicate.)
They remind me of Mormons, Muslims and others who are gentiles under natural laws.
Some receive Jesus, some do not.
Some convert to Christian, some do not.
It depends on the person.
Irrelevant even if true. It does not matter that another boss was better than your boss because you still owe fidelity to your boss.
Your whole line of thinking is out of whack with authority and hierarchy. It’s not about comparing one lord to another but recognizing they are all inferior to The LORD God almighty.
True but besides the point, which is all Lords are below The One True LORD God, our Father.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
All the apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ taught that Jesus was the son of God. Jesus consistently said that God was his Father and that he was the Son of God. We will not deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and came to the world of mankind to save mankind. Trinitarians continue to deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who came to the world of mankind. You will find nowhere in the scriptures written down anywhere where it says you must believe that God came to this world as a human. The scriptures continue to teach that God sent his Only Begotten Son to mankind to save mankind, the scriptures have never denied this. This is what JW believe.
At 1 Peter 3:18 it says, "Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. The new English Bible translation of 1961 translate 1Peter 3:18 like this: "For Christ also died for our sins once for all. He, the just, suffered for the unjust, to bring bring us to God. In the body he was put to death; in the spirit he was brought to life.
So the apostle Peter says, "in the spirit he was brought to life." This explains why on the morning of the resurrection when the angel rolled the stone from the door of the tomb where Jesus laid the soldier guards did not see Jesus come out of the tomb, although they did see the angel that rolled the stone away.
If Jesus had been resurrected with the same exact body which he sacrificed and then taken that exact same body to heaven it would mean no resurrection for anybody. Why? Because that would mean that Jesus would have taken that human body that he sacrificed off God's alter.
The scriptures clearly teach that when resurrected Jesus was given immortality and he inherited incorruption. These are things Jesus didn't have before he sacrificed himself. So the scriptures show that Jesus wasn't resurrected with the same body because Jesus wasn't immortal or incorruptible before he died.
Jesus said to the Jews at John 5:37 that they had neither heard the voice of God at any time nor seen his shape(morphe') At 1John 3:2 John said to christians : "beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
These words would not be true if Jesus has his human body in heaven, for then we would know what christians will be like in heaven after their resurrection from the dead. There's too many scriptures that show that Jesus was not resurrected with the same human body. Those who want to deny scriptures such as these are doing just that denying these scriptures. There are also many other scriptures that show that Jesus has a spirit body not a human body.
Those who want to deny the scriptures in Corinthians that speak of the spirit and flesh have to accept the fact that flesh and spirit are contrasted with each other they're not described as the same kind of body.
FWIW, "Mormons" 100% believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. He, along with the Father, and Holy Spirit are three different divine persons in one God. There is difference in belief in the how 3 persons are 1 God versus some Creedal statements, but the belief in their divinity is very much agree upon.
-Written by an actual "Mormon"
teamventure
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I didn't give you an admission of defeat. For your argument to be defeated I would need to say nothing as others have shown you plenty of scripture. I showed you scripture also.
I am just taking a psychological approach to see what makes you tick because that's my thinking style.
You sure did make an admission of defeat, tacitly.
ROFLMAO. Claiming victory as you admit defeat. Quite bold.
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teamventure
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You show that you doubt the very thing you are trying to prove by making a thread about it. We know what we believe but even YOU doubt your OWN opinion.
teamventure
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This isn't a debate issue it's a spiritual one. You lack faith.
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
teamventure
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Jesus said he who has seen him has seen the Father, gospel of John 1 says he was there in the beginning which no created being can be.
Colossians 1 says all things were created through him being one with the father and that the fullness of God dwells in him.
teamventure
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Jesus said he who has seen him has seen the Father, gospel of John 1 says he was there in the beginning which no created being can be.
Colossians 1 says all things were created through him being one with the father and that the fullness of God dwells in him.
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2. I think we need to be more specific.
I asked JW do you believe in embodying Jesus yourself where you invoke this authority and connection between you and God through Christ.
I also ask the same of political friends: do you understand that accepting responsibility for enforcing Constitutional laws yourself, equally as military vets, law officers and federal officials and judges under oath, empowers people to invoke equal authority of govt.
3. Then I can tell what roles people play.
Some are followers who rely on authorort of others they see as being in charge not them.
Some are fellow leaders and servants who take on equal responsibility for the law and the people to act as the church or serve the public to act as the govt does.
Some are teachers and some are judge types.
So if we know how we view God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we can organize in likeminded groups and know how to communicate and work with neighbors coming from different tribes and approaches to serving and teaching.
1. Where do Trinity believers deny Christ Jesus as the only Son of God? I kept running into the opposite: where the three in one crowd keeps accusing the "Jesus is God" rejectors as denying Jesus Divinity!
2. I think we need to be more specific.
I asked JW do you believe in embodying Jesus yourself where you invoke this authority and connection between you and God through Christ.
I also ask the same of political friends: do you understand that accepting responsibility for enforcing Constitutional laws yourself, equally as military vets, law officers and federal officials and judges under oath, empowers people to invoke equal authority of govt.
3. Then I can tell what roles people play.
Some are followers who rely on authorort of others they see as being in charge not them.
Some are fellow leaders and servants who take on equal responsibility for the law and the people to act as the church or serve the public to act as the govt does.
Some are teachers and some are judge types.
So if we know how we view God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we can organize in likeminded groups and know how to communicate and work with neighbors coming from different tribes and approaches to serving and teaching.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
At John 1:1 trinitarians say the Word is God, even though John said everything that he wrote in his gospel was to prove Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God not God.
Also since trinitarians are saying that the Word is God and not the Only Begotten Son of God and John tells us at John 1:14 the Word became flesh(human) then trinitarians are denying it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human). So as I said, trinitarians don't believe it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human and came to mankind, they believe it was God who became human and came to mankind.
Jesus Christ is an eternal Spirit, one with the Father. His body was put to death. God is a God of the living. The soul doesn't die when the body physically dies.
Human souls are vessels that are meant to contain God's Spirit. God's Spirit is that which has the capacity to be endlessly poured out on all flesh.
Jesus Christ is a life giving-Spirit. We are merely receptacles of His life.
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)
Only God can bring life. Only the Lord Himself can be a quickening Spirit.
The fact that people try to reason with their very limited carnal mind as if that can be conclusive of anything shows that they are unable to grasp the depth of the mystery. We are not meant to be able to relate to God in that way. It is foolish to even try doing so.
I find that people get side-tracked from the dualism that expresses the Godhead. Either people go too far one way or the other. A proper balance is never considered. The Father and the Son are One Spirit. The error is in making the holy Spirit to be a separate person. The Jews knew the work of the Spirit for thousands of years before the coming of Christ. Yet they never thought for one moment that God's Spirit was a separate entity from Himself. We also have a spirit within us. And that spirit is associated with us, not a separate entity from us.
The mystery involves the plural "Elohim" which means a divine double (God) The plural masculine "im" means "twofold" in the Bible. Elohim is both Father and Son. Always was and always will be. Jesus came to show the "double" edged nature of the truth. The sword of the Spirit is double-edged (not single edged nor triple edged). People tend to make one aspect deny the other thereby reducing the truth to a one-dimensional cardboard image that has no power. Or else the Father is seen as not being His own Spirit. Can you say primitive?
Look at words like Ephraim (double fruit) or
Chayim (human life in both its temporal and eternal aspects)
mayim (water both clear and bitter),
Shamayim (the heavens which exist in both realms, temporal and eternal),
Machanayim (two camps as named by Jacob in Genesis),
etc....
Overall it is in a lack of both an honest and in-depth seeking in the scriptures and of the Spirit of God that errors are made and remain as barriers to a real knowledge of God. But if someone wishes to remain in ignorance then by all means that is a prerogative of our free will. :)
The mystery involves the plural "Elohim" which means a divine double (God) The plural masculine "im" means "twofold" in the Bible. Elohim is both Father and Son. Always was and always will be. Jesus came to show the "double" edged nature of the truth. The sword of the Spirit is double-edged (not single edged nor triple edged). People tend to make one aspect deny the other thereby reducing the truth to a one-dimensional cardboard image that has no power. Or else the Father is seen as not being His own Spirit. Can you say primitive?
Look at words like Ephraim (double fruit) or
Chayim (human life in both its temporal and eternal aspects)
mayim (water both clear and bitter),
Shamayim (the heavens which exist in both realms, temporal and eternal),
Machanayim (two camps as named by Jacob in Genesis),
etc....
Overall it is in a lack of both an honest and in-depth seeking in the scriptures and of the Spirit of God that errors are made and remain as barriers to a real knowledge of God. But if someone wishes to remain in ignorance then by all means that is a prerogative of our free will. :)
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Psycho-babble. You abandon the field - of discussing how verses from Acts undermine this anti-Scriptural doctrine of the trinity - because you lost and cannot explicitly admit it.
So, the personal attack is all you got.
This thread is about Acts.
How the trinitarians deliberately misinterpret John 1 has been delved into dozens of times already. HINT: John 1:1 does not even have Jesus in it.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Powerful accusations from one who doesn't even know what the book was called. they used the Tanach (not tanaka) yes to prove Jesus was Messiah! Because of the rejection of Jesus by the religious leaders, they showed from Scripture that Jesus fulfilled the Scriptures!
See I do not disregard Scripture as you selectively do! I fully know Jesus is Messiah and divine as well. Scriptures clearly shgow he is divine or god like His Father is divine or God. They share the same essence. Seeing as you reject the deity of jesus , what do you say He was before He became man?
I use verses like this to show Jesus is equally god(divine) with His Father:
John 1:1
King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 5:17-18
King James Version
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
Genesis 1:1
King James Version
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1
King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
God made the heavens and earth and Jesus is that God who made heaven and earth.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Philippians 2:6-10
King James Version
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
I could on and on showing that it is the bible that forms my doctrine. why do you reject these Scriptures?
I accept all the roles Jesus had and now has and will have. Which is why I can say He is equal to God in nature, subservient to God in position in the God head and the same as God the Father. I also accept He is Messiah/Christ/Savior as the Scriptures also teach
I also accept He was fully man, physically rose from the dead, physically ascended into heaven with a glorified body as the firstfruits, will physically return, will rule for 1,000 years and then submit Himself back to His Father and my Father as the Scriptures declare!
The bible will never contradict itself. If it appears to do so- it is because the understanding of one like you is wrong.
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