Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Taken]

There is no freewill mentioned with respect to the command...

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

As the original post states, Adam was not created with a freewill.

Disagree with you.
* God is all knowing. He knows WHAT we will "Elect / Choose to believe AND do" before we are naturally born.
* Mankind is not all knowing. Mankind is naturally born without knowledge of God, without knowing, without loving, without believing in God....AKA...Against God.
* Mankind has the opportunity to HEAR, LEARN, ABOUT God, and FREELY CHOOSE (ELECT) to BELIEVE what the man Hears, Learns ABOUT God...or FREELY CHOOSE to REJECT what the man Hears, Learns ABOUT God.

Disagree with you.
According to Scripture; The individual has the option to Hear and Learn About God, and Freely ACCEPT or REJECT what the man HEARS and LEARNS ABOUT GOD.
THAT ^ IS EXPRESSLY the individuals FREE WILL CHOICE / ELECTION.

Disagree with you.
God acknowledges, mankind WHO Freely Chooses / "elects" Him, and mankind WHO Freely Chooses / "elect" to Reject Him.

Gods Word of Truth, warns an individual, to BE informed and diligent BEFORE making their ELECTION (Choice).

2 Peter 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


Gods Word of Truth, acknowledges, an individuals Confession of Election of freely choosing God.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Kermos]

If we don't have free will, why are you working so hard to change my mind? :)

Although you jet off topic, I plan to take this back to this thread's specific topic in the final paragraph of this post.

Your question intrinsically contains confusion for within the confines of your question lies the evidence of your free willian philosophy.

The following is based on adjusting your question appropriately.

Thus commands the Word of God "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" (Matthew 28:19).

Lord Jesus "Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said, 'Behold My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother'” (Mark 3:34-35).

The Word of God is the Power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16).

Grace means unearned love. It is astounding that you free willians try to pervert the gospel of grace of Christ, for a different gospel, yet which is no gospel at all for the free willian philosophy depends upon you earning the love of Christ by way of your free will choice of Christ (see Galatians 1:6-7 and John 3:16, The Word World, and New Testament Usage).

I proclaim the Word of God that some may be saved (1 Corinthians 9:22).

I move according to the direction of the Holy Spirit to declare the good news to the unbelieving.

It is not up to me nor is it up to you to cause anyone to believe in the Word of God, rather it is up to the Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29

Now it's time to get back on topic. Since Adam was not imparted a free will, then no subsequent human was imparted free will; therefore, your thesis of mankind having a free will to choose God embedded in your question is a precept of man leading to worship in vain for free willians (Matthew 15:9).

 

[Kermos]

You don't have a clue what the scriptures say if you truly believe that Genesis 2:17 is a prophecy of God saying Adam would disobey The command to not eat of the forbidden tree. Basically you're saying that God gave Adam an impossible command to obey. God doesn't give any person angel or human an impossible command to obey.

With respect to the Law, the commandments, the Apostle Peter said "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10),

Now you call the Apostle Peter a liar because you contradict him. This has been pointed out previously.

Back to Genesis 2:16-17 which does contain prophecy, and here is the full Word of God for this passage which God has put before me "and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying".

See the prophecy here "when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:17, The Meaning Of The Hebrew Words אכל(akal)/"eat" and מות(muth)/"die"in Genesis 2:16-17).

That is not the word "if" in Genesis 2 17 as in "if in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" which is an unknown quantity.

That is the word "when" in Genesis 2:17 as in "when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:17) which is a known quantity - prophecy.

There is no question according to the Word of God that Adam would eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil subsequent to the time that God issued the command.

You persist in attempting to subtract from the Word of God as just demonstrated.

Adam was not created with a free will, and no creature thereafter was created with a free will, just as the original post shows.

 

[Kermos]

No one forced Adam to not obey God ===Adam made the choice to not obey God. God is outside time =the Alpha and Omega = the Beginning and the End!!God sees Adam today in the garden and also the last man to ever live on earth.!

Beginning is a time reference.

End is a time reference.

Neither Beginning/Alpha nor End/Omega indicates God being outside of time.

There is no scripture that states God is outside of time, so your deception about God watching from eternity as man controls salvation via man's choice toward God is a precept of men resulting in free willians worshiping in vain (Matthew 15:9).

Your statement "Adam made the choice to not obey God" is only supported by your wicked heart (Jeremiah 17:9) because there is no support for your statement in the Word of God.

The original post is rich with the Word of God that demonstrates Adam was not imparted a free will.

 

[Kermos]

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Yes.

It must be noted however that my view of free will is the freedom to make choices or freedom to desire, different from the freedom to do.

Tong
R2577

A choice is a do because the mind must process to do a choice. You wrote "make choices" where the word "make" is equivalent to "do".

Tong, your post is absent of the Word of God, so your "Yes" merely reflects your thoughts, and you are but a vapor (James 4:14); therefore, the answer to "Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation" is "No" as the original post rich in the Word of God illumines.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Kermos]

Yes.


Which presupposes his choice not to. Just as we today have a choice not to commit adultery. A commandment does not assume an inability to obey it. The very fact Adam disobeyed proves his independence and his own will super-ceding the will of God. Unless of course you attempt to suggest God's will was that men sin and be condemned as a result, and that God deliberately designed men with that inbuilt unassailable propensity to do so. Calvinists, who seem to believe that such was Calvin's teaching that men have no free will of their own but were created to sin, need to explain why Calvin created a 'theocratic' government in Geneva with the supposed intention to coerce obedience to a philosophy of Godly obedience that contradicts God's will that men should sin.

Concerning when you wrote "presupposes his choice", an "implication" occurs when a person makes an inference upon a subject matter for which no underlying explicit text exists. The Word of God does not explicitly state that Adam had the ability to "choose", so in effect, you wrote "implies his choice"; therefore, YOU ADDED TO THE WORD OF GOD.

The word "choice" is absent from "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:16-17), so the concept of choice is not therein.

The fact is that God prophesied that Adam would not obey the restriction from eating when God said "when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:17).

Backlit, your post is absent of the Word of God, so your "Yes" merely reflects your thoughts, and you are but a vapor (James 4:14); therefore, the answer to "Was Adam Impart ed Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation" is "No" just as the original post rich in the Word of God demonstrates.

You are babbling about some guy named Calvin. You babbled your thoughts about Adam instead of you reveling in the Word of God.

Now, I'm talking about Christian teaching according to the Holy Spirit of God.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Kermos]

If you read it in the kjv and do not change it any, it is saying that God does not inhabit time but eternity; or that He dwells in eternity rather than time.

But if you want to argue, I have already made my point and I rest my case with the point that I have made.

If one reads Isaiah 57:15 in the Hebrew, and does not change the word's meaning, the Word of God says "lives forever". This passage essentially states God, who is without beginning nor end, reigns throughout all time.

The KJV is not the Hebrew, and if you exalt the KJV interpretation you conjured up to be above the original Hebrew, then you do so to your own detriment at the day of judgment.

God's control extends throughout eternity including the actions of man (Proverbs 6:19).

 

[Jostler]

Although you jet off topic, I plan to take this back to this thread's specific topic in the final paragraph of this post.

Your question intrinsically contains confusion for within the confines of your question lies the evidence of your free willian philosophy.

The following is based on adjusting your question appropriately.

Thus commands the Word of God "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" (Matthew 28:19).

Lord Jesus "Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said, 'Behold My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother'” (Mark 3:34-35).

The Word of God is the Power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16).

Grace means unearned love. It is astounding that you free willians try to pervert the gospel of grace of Christ, for a different gospel, yet which is no gospel at all for the free willian philosophy depends upon you earning the love of Christ by way of your free will choice of Christ (see Galatians 1:6-7 and John 3:16, The Word World, and New Testament Usage).

I proclaim the Word of God that some may be saved (1 Corinthians 9:22).

I move according to the direction of the Holy Spirit to declare the good news to the unbelieving.

It is not up to me nor is it up to you to cause anyone to believe in the Word of God, rather it is up to the Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29

Now it's time to get back on topic. Since Adam was not imparted a free will, then no subsequent human was imparted free will; therefore, your thesis of mankind having a free will to choose God embedded in your question is a precept of man leading to worship in vain for free willians (Matthew 15:9).

If you, or Adam had no free will, you are not created in God's image.

 

[Curtis]

It is not up to me nor is it up to you to cause anyone to believe in the Word of God, rather it is up to the Word of God "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29

Now it's time to get back on topic. Since Adam was not imparted a free will, then no subsequent human was imparted free will; therefore, your thesis of mankind having a free will to choose God embedded in your question is a precept of man leading to worship in vain for free willians (Matthew 15:9).

Having faith is available to all, since faith comes by hearing the word of God, per Romans 10:17.

The very serious problem with claiming Adam had no choice but to sin and fall, is that makes God the author of sin.

Hard core 5 point Calvinism has God decreeing Satan’s fall, then Adams fall - making sin and damnation 100% Gods will - so God decreed man would sin, decreed He would damn man for that sin, then decreed that the unlucky non-elect are predestined to go to hell for unbelief, even though He makes it impossible for them to believe.

Imagine a human father warning a son not to stick his finger in a light socket, then forcing him to do exactly that, and then punishing his son for disobedience!

Imagine God commanding Adam not to eat that fruit, then making him eat the fruit, then damning him to hell FOR eating the fruit.

Adam had freewill, or God is a sadistic maniac.

 

[Stumpmaster]

God is all knowing. He knows WHAT we will "Elect / Choose to believe AND do" before we are naturally born.

Yes, a characteristic of being God is that in eternity He always knows all that is knowable. Anything less and He wouldn't be God.

The fact that the Bible records Him asking questions of people doesn't mean He didn't already know.

Gen 3:9-13 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?" (10) So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself." (11) And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?" (12) Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate." (13) And the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

 

[Taken]

Yes, a characteristic of being God is that in eternity He always knows all that is knowable. Anything less and He wouldn't be God.

The fact that the Bible records Him asking questions of people doesn't mean He didn't already know.

Gen 3:9-13 Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?" (10) So he said, "I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself." (11) And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?" (12) Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate." (13) And the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

Agree. Asking questions, isn't always about, seeking an answer to an unknown, but is also a means for revealing an others testimony, beyond a "thought", formed into a verbal confession.
God "knows" our unspoken thoughts.
Men can "guess" an others thoughts...but a verbalization, removes the guesswork.
Jesus is our example in all things...
(Even so, in dealing with relationships among men).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Now it's time to get back on topic. "Since Adam was not imparted a free will..."

If you begin with an erronous statement, expect to arrive at an erronous conclusion.

It is Scriptural, AND common sense;
Hearing of something, Seeing something, Wanting something, Receiving something...
ARE the INITIAL factors ...
THE FREEWILL FACTOR ... IS THE WILL OF THE PERSON TO FREELY (decide, choose, elect), to TAKE .... PERIOD.

* Noone FORCED the woman to TAKE.
Of her own freewill, she TOOK.
* Noone FORCED the woman to EAT. Of her own freewill, she ATE.

* Noone FORCED her husband (the man), to TAKE. Of his own will, He TOOK.
* Noone FORCED her husband (the man), to
EAT. Of his own freewill, He ATE.


Gen 3:
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

It's a foreshadow lesson;

Jesus' OFFERS His Blood for the forgiveness of sins... Men are NOT FORCED to TAKE His Offering. By a mans own FREEWILL, the man may TAKE Jesus' Offering (or freely choose to NOT Take His Offering.)
Matt 26:
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Jesus' OFFERS "His" Body for required DEATH and Sanctification of a man, (BEFORE Gods SEED can be given).
Men are NOT FORCED to TAKE His Offering.
By a mans own FREEWILL, the man may TAKE Jesus' Offering (or freely choose to NOT Take His Offering).
Heb 10;
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Accepting Jesus' Offering, is a mans "Freewill" OPTION "TO TAKE" His Offering or NOT TAKE His Offering.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Was Adam and Eve offered salvation after they sinned?

Tong
R3699

 

[Kermos]

.

One of the spurious objections to the question is that Adam wasn't
created in the beginning. But Jesus said he was.

• Matt 19:4 . . Haven't you read-- he replied --that at the beginning the
Creator made them male and female

So then, Mr. Kermos, do not be deterred. We have it on good authority that
your question is appropriately worded.

• Matt 17:5 . . A voice from the cloud said: This is My son, whom I love; with
him I am well pleased. Listen to him!

• John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
_

You kind words are deeply appreciated. Perhaps @quietthinker will read your post in which you quote the Word of God regarding Adam's time of creation. God bless you.

 

[TLHKAJ]

James 1:13-15 (KJV)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Kermos]

God doing as he will doesn't mean men don't choose. Part of God's will is to allow real choices. It's all through scripture starting with Adam and Eve' s choices.

The absence of scripture citation in your post shows just how unscriptural your thoughts are.

Now you speak against God and that you convey that man can override God's will. You have a very high opinion of yourself. In fact, I would call your opinion of yourself to be the label of god.

You do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away (James 4:14).

There is no free will choice indicated in the creation account for Adam and Eve, so there is no free will choice for anybody thereafter, thus shows the biblical citation in the original post.

 

[Renniks]

Now you speak against God and that you convey that man can override God's will.

Well in your system I can only do that if God caused it, so you should thank God that he caused me to believe as I do ...

 

[Renniks]

There is no free will choice indicated in the creation account for Adam and Eve, so there is no free will choice for anybody thereafter, thus shows the biblical citation in the original post.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

There's the choice.

"When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it."

Eve caused the first sin by her actions. That's what we are told.

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

But Kermos thinks God caused Eve to sin, against what God himself says.

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

 

[Kermos]

God gave Adam free choices. In other words limited dominion. For example, he allowed Adam to name the animals.

As I have repeatedly written, largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

Actions are described in the creation account for Adam, and there is no mention of choices. Let's look at the passage you mention.

"Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

See that action is expressed with "whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name" (Genesis 2:19).

In effect, you add that word "chose" to the scripture such that "whatever the man chose to call a living creature, that was its name", but Rennicks writing does not match Genesis 2:19.

There you go trying to be a god with the ability to change scripture. The One True God had me point out your aspiration to be a god in my previous post to you.

Adam did the action of naming the creatures with God's consent.

There is no free will choice indicated in the creation account for Adam and Eve, so there is no free will choice for anybody thereafter, thus shows the biblical citation in the original post.

 

[Kermos]

I think the fact that God is sovereign over all his creation, and predestined all things, tells us Adam may have exercised a choice to eat the fruit Eve offered.
However, that a confluence of events preceeded his choice indicates his will could not be greater than the sovereign will of God who planted the tree.

A logic conflict occurs within your first paragraph; in other words, your words "I think the fact that God is sovereign over all his creation, and predestined all things" contradicts your words "tells us Adam may have exercised a choice to eat the fruit Eve offered" and vice versa.

The word "predestined" collides with "choice", unless you want to say God predestined Adam's choice result.

You used the word "offered" thus injecting support for a choice, yet the scripture states "and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6); therefore, scripture describes actions, not choices, but actions.

I noticed that you wrote "may have exercised", thus you may be expressing uncertainty.

Here is a big one from your post, Amazed@grace, you started off with "I think". God dictates the Word (John 1:14). We, God's creatures, receive the Word - not interpret the Word (2 Peter 1:20-21) - not adding to nor subtracting from the Word (Proverbs 30:6) - the Word is given and it is evil to try to change that which is finished (John 19:30).

It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Lord Jesus says "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3).

Back to when you wrote "I think". It would be overwhelmingly superior to write "My Daddy says" for the Father in heaven is the authority.

Amazed@grace, Actions are described in the creation account for Adam, and there is no mention of the word "choose" nor it's conjugates.

There is no free will choice indicated in the creation account for Adam and Eve, so there is no free will choice for anybody thereafter, thus shows the biblical citation in the original post.